Removing strut rods

[Voss]

Hi all,

Is it possible to remove a strut rod without removing the complete LCA? Reason for asking is that I need to replace a bent rod and install new bushings. Eventually I will do a complete tear down and rebuild the whole front suspension, but I don't want to do that right now, just fixing what is obviously a big problem.

[John_Kunkel]

You don't have to completely remove the LCA but you do have to move it back a considerable amount to remove the strut....of course, this involves removing other components.

[Voss]

You don't have to completely remove the LCA but you do have to move it back a considerable amount to remove the strut....of course, this involves removing other components.

Thanks, I will try to get them out. I need to replace the bushings on both sides too. Obviously I need to fix this, but I wonder how much it affects stability and "normal" driving? Reason for asking is that I only have time to fix the most obvious bad parts right now. Will do a full front end rebuild when the season is over. For now I just have new sway bar end links and sway bar bracket bushings installed. Fixing the strut rod issues and installing a FF Stage 3 PS box and doing a proper wheel alignment is about what I have planned to do right now. I hope it improves the road feel a bit and eliminates the sloppish feel a bit. Guess new UCA with possibility to set a nice camber and caster could be the next thing...

[bakerhillpins]

Sounds like you are going to be paying for a 2nd alignment when you have completed the full rebuild at the end of the season. Can save yourself some  and time if you just do it all now or later.

[HPP]

Thanks, I will try to get them out. I need to replace the bushings on both sides too. Obviously I need to fix this, but I wonder how much it affects stability and "normal" driving? Reason for asking is that I only have time to fix the most obvious bad parts right now. Will do a full front end rebuild when the season is over. For now I just have new sway bar end links and sway bar bracket bushings installed. Fixing the strut rod issues and installing a FF Stage 3 PS box and doing a proper wheel alignment is about what I have planned to do right now. I hope it improves the road feel a bit and eliminates the sloppish feel a bit. Guess new UCA with possibility to set a nice camber and caster could be the next thing...

Strut bushings provide stability for braking (rear bushing) and accelerating (front bushing). If you don't do either of those activities heavily, you may be able to milk it along for a while. Whatever amount the bushings are mashed or damaged is how much your lower control arm can deflect, which then alters caster and puts the control arm bushing into bind and tweaks the toe. Depending on how damaged your strut bushings are, swings of 4-8* of caster may be possible. Because these caster changes occur in an arc it will  also change toe dynamically so  under braking you will get toe in and under acceleration you will get toe out.  Steady cruising may make things stable, but cornering could lead of offset caster and toe similtaniously.

[Dino]

Thanks, I will try to get them out. I need to replace the bushings on both sides too. Obviously I need to fix this, but I wonder how much it affects stability and "normal" driving? Reason for asking is that I only have time to fix the most obvious bad parts right now. Will do a full front end rebuild when the season is over. For now I just have new sway bar end links and sway bar bracket bushings installed. Fixing the strut rod issues and installing a FF Stage 3 PS box and doing a proper wheel alignment is about what I have planned to do right now. I hope it improves the road feel a bit and eliminates the sloppish feel a bit. Guess new UCA with possibility to set a nice camber and caster could be the next thing...

Strut bushings provide stability for braking (rear bushing) and accelerating (front bushing). If you don't do either of those activities heavily, you may be able to milk it along for a while. Whatever amount the bushings are mashed or damaged is how much your lower control arm can deflect, which then alters caster and puts the control arm bushing into bind and tweaks the toe. Depending on how damaged your strut bushings are, swings of 4-8* of caster may be possible. Because these caster changes occur in an arc it will  also change toe dynamically so  under braking you will get toe in and under acceleration you will get toe out.  Steady cruising may make things stable, but cornering could lead of offset caster and toe similtaniously.

If I knew half of what you knew, I'd probably have this suspension together by now.   

[375instroke]

Strut bushings provide stability for braking (rear bushing) and accelerating (front bushing). Because these caster changes occur in an arc it will  also change toe dynamically so  under braking you will get toe in and under acceleration you will get toe out.

It's not front wheel drive.  Forces are always pulling the wheel rearward while traveling forward, and compressing the front bushing.  Does this cause toe in, or out, though?  I thought static toe in was to compensate for dynamic toe out, but I don't know now that I think about it.  If the wheel pulls rearward, it's going to move in an arc, with the lower control arm bushing being the axis of rotation, and the tie rod/drag link prevents the rear from traveling in that arc, so would it push the rear outward, and the front would then need to move inward, causing toe in?

[HPP]

If I knew half of what you knew, I'd probably have this suspension together by now.   

I know all that and my junk still isn't running, so knowledge isn't anything compared to determination. Keep after it, you'll get it done!

It's not front wheel drive.  Forces are always pulling the wheel rearward while traveling forward, and compressing the front bushing.  Does this cause toe in, or out, though?  I thought static toe in was to compensate for dynamic toe out, but I don't know now that I think about it.  If the wheel pulls rearward, it's going to move in an arc, with the lower control arm bushing being the axis of rotation, and the tie rod/drag link prevents the rear from traveling in that arc, so would it push the rear outward, and the front would then need to move inward, causing toe in?

Yes, road forces going forward always compress the front bushing,  and cause the toe out on a rear steer set up like mopars. This is why we set them up with static toe in. The forward pitch cause by braking will lessen the load on the front bushing and transfer a percentage to the rear bushing. It isn't an either or proposition like I made it sound, but the percentage of load on each does change. They work together, that's why there are two of them. But yes, the front bushings sees more loading more often. Most old bushings I've seen have a front unit that is mashed and a rear unit that is cracked and disintegrating. The constant loads on the front mash it into a pancake. The intermittent loads on the rear hammer it until it breaks.

Any movement in an arc will impact any other motion that interacts with that arc. The further on that arc the movement travels, the greater the impact. Nearly every piece in the suspension moves in an arc to some degree if it is a fixed length and anchored on one end. This includes upper/lower control arms, pitman/idler arms, lower ball joint/steering arm. There is a complimentary range of motion for pieces to work together like control arms and steering linkages that can be positioned to minimize bump steer. However, in a stock mopar there are also some conflicting ranges like the torsion bar and steering linkage interferance range that creates greater bump steer