Engine/tranny removal question

[Raindem]

I'm trying to remove the 440/4 speed combo from my '73.  I have the hood and radiator removed, and everything is disconnect at this point except the engine & tranny mounts. 

But I noticed the front of the metalwork does not come off.  It doesn't look like there is enough room to pull an engine/tranny combo.  I do have a leveler but still, it looks real tight.  How have others accomplished this?

Thanks

Curt

[rebby]

What I pulled the both the 383/833 and 440/727 combos out of my 2 Chargers I did both the same. I pulled the motor/trans as a single unit to start with then supported the tranny and disconnected them once I had adequate clearance to easily do so. Then it was straight up with the engine and out. Tranny was easy out from this point as well.

I installed the 440/727 into my GL as a single unit though. I jacked up the rear end and dropped the front as low as I could (air out of the tires). I was then able to guide the combo into place with a little massaging. I did this without the leveler to gain a little additional height from my cherry picker. Worked out just fine. When I finally get my 502/833 installed in my other Charger, I may put it in from the bottom. Good luck!

[Raindem]

How do you put it in from the bottom?

[Chargerguy74]

I've never pulled the engine and 833 from a 73/74 while together. I've always pulled the tranny first then the engine. And in that case you must remove the torsion bar crossmember to get the tranny out. Not sure what you'll have for clearance if you haven't done that. Something to think about. Also, I'm pretty sure someone forgot to remove the Z-bar in one of my cars before they did an engine swap and ruined the factory ball stud bracket.

[Troy]

When I have pulled them together I raise the car to get more clearance underneath. It also helps to remove all the accessories and even the belts and pulleys from the front of the engine.

To remove everything from the bottom you have to be able to raise the car fairly high. You can use the bumper mounts (or make a jig that fits the bumper holes) and use an engine hoist to raise the front of the car. The engine and front suspension is all attached to the car using the k-frame so you basically just remove the 4 big bolts, disconnect the upper control arms from the inner fender, disconnect the steering column from the steering box, disconnect the exhaust pipes, and disconnect the torsion bars (I just unclip them at the frame and pull them out with the rest of the suspension). Raise the car off of it. It helps to have some sort of dolly so you can wheel the assembly out from under the car. It will be too unwieldy on a floor jack.

Troy

[Raindem]

Thanks Troy.  I have a 4-post lift.  Has anyone ever used a lift as a sort of gantry crane to raise the front end off the k-member?  Or is that just a crazy idea?

If I choose to go conventional out the top, will I need to remove the crossmember by the torsion bar, or just the one that supports the tranny?

Also, some of the spot welds on my front metalwork are broke.  So another crazy idea I had is just to remove the support in front of the radiator and weld it back into place when I'm done, so that I don't have to deal with such a steep angle.  Just looking at options here.

Curt

[Troy]

If you're worried about angle then just separate the engine and transmission. The engine itself will easily clear the engine bay and the trans will drop right out of the bottom. As mentioned earlier though, you may want to lift the engine and move it forward a little so the trans bolts are easier to reach. That's a LOT easier than removing and rewelding the radiator support.

There is a removable section of the transmission crossmember where the mount is that you should unbolt. It's 4 bolts. The rest of that section (where the torsion bars mount) is welded to the car.

With a 4 post lift you should have no problem with clearance tilting the engine up and out. To drop the whole thing out the bottom though you would have to remove the suspension I'd think. Or at least "fold up" the lower control arms. Once the uppers are loose there's a lot of movement so you may be able to just raise the spindles up around the side of the engine.

You can use a hoist or a gantry crane to raise the car itself off of the k-frame. Most of the time I see the bumper bolt area on the front of the frame rail as a lift point.

[Raindem]

As mentioned earlier though, you may want to lift the engine and move it forward a little so the trans bolts are easier to reach.

I'm having a hard time visualizing this.  So I hook up the hoist to the engine/trann combo and undo all the mounts as if I'm going to pull them together.  Then I bring it foward a few inches to get at the bell housing bolts.  At this point, when the tranny is seperated from the engine, is it sitting on the ground or still resting on a structural support?

[Troy]

As mentioned earlier though, you may want to lift the engine and move it forward a little so the trans bolts are easier to reach.

I'm having a hard time visualizing this.  So I hook up the hoist to the engine/trann combo and undo all the mounts as if I'm going to pull them together.  Then I bring it foward a few inches to get at the bell housing bolts.  At this point, when the tranny is seperated from the engine, is it sitting on the ground or still resting on a structural support?

Well, at that point it's floating in the air! I have a transmission jack so I'd likely leave the engine on the hoist then secure the transmission to the jack. Once you get things unbolted you can wheel the jack backwards to separate them then go straight up with the engine. Of course, I have small hands so getting the trans unbolted with the engine still on the mounts isn't very difficult. Also, most of my cars are 4-speeds so I can also pull the transmission and leave the bell housing on the engine. Lots of ways to accomplish the same thing.

Troy

[John_Kunkel]

When pulling an engine/trans combo out the top, I find that attaching the chain so that the engine comes out nose high helps clear the core support better.

[Troy]

He has a leveler. Mine will drop the tail pretty far even if I start out flat - but there's a lot of cranking involved!

Troy

[Raindem]

Having considered the different options, I think I'll try to bring it out as a single unit through the top.  Let you know how it goes.

[Raindem]

Well, having some troubl with this procedure.  Everything is disconnected.  The engine mounts are free and the tranny crossmember is removed.  The engine/tranny combo is completely suspended by the hoist.  But that's as far as I get.

I can't move it foward because the oil plan hits the k-member.  I can't raise it further becaue the top of the bellhousing hits the tunnel.  I can't tilt it because the transmission tailshaft bottoms out on the torsion bar crossmember.  Where do I go from here?

Thanks

Curt

[rebby]

At the point you are currently at, it should be pretty simple to support the trans from the bottom and unbolt the trans from the engine. Pull the engine straight up then come back and grab the trans. That was the method that I ended up using when I pulled my engine/trans last time (as mentioned above).

[c00nhunterjoe]

I dont think there is a wrong way. Wbichever works best for you. I personally pull the trans 1st, then engine.

[Chargerguy74]

Well, having some troubl with this procedure.  Everything is disconnected.  The engine mounts are free and the tranny crossmember is removed.  The engine/tranny combo is completely suspended by the hoist.  But that's as far as I get.

I can't move it foward because the oil plan hits the k-member.  I can't raise it further becaue the top of the bellhousing hits the tunnel.  I can't tilt it because the transmission tailshaft bottoms out on the torsion bar crossmember.  Where do I go from here?

Thanks

Curt

This is what I expected considering the issues I've had pulling 833s in the past. You may have to unload and remove the torsion bars and drop the torsion bar crossmember.

[Raindem]

This is what I expected considering the issues I've had pulling 833s in the past. You may have to unload and remove the torsion bars and drop the torsion bar crossmember.

So the 727 is a little shorter?  Good.  I was hoping there was a logical explanation why I was unable to do what others have done.

Someone said that the torsion bar crossmember was welded in.

As it stand now I'll probably just seperate them and pull them individually.

[72Charger72]

I had a 73 with my 440 and 727 in it and its way to tight to pull together. You have to drop the tranny first. I wished I had known about dropping from below back then!

[Chargerguy74]

This is what I expected considering the issues I've had pulling 833s in the past. You may have to unload and remove the torsion bars and drop the torsion bar crossmember.

So the 727 is a little shorter?  Good.  I was hoping there was a logical explanation why I was unable to do what others have done.

Someone said that the torsion bar crossmember was welded in.

As it stand now I'll probably just seperate them and pull them individually.

It's bolted in. 2 bolts, 1 on each side.

[Troy]

The "torsion bar cross member" is welded to the car. The "transmission cross member" holds the rear trans mount and is bolted in with 4 bolts (unless the 73 is vastly different from everything else but my 73 E-Body was just like my 68 B-Body cars). Remove the transmission cross member, tilt engine back so tail of transmission drops to floor, put jack under rear axle to raise the back of the car, slide engine forward and up. Or just unbolt the transmission from the bell housing and remove the 2 separately. Either way, that transmission cross member has to come out.





Troy

[Chargerguy74]

The "torsion bar cross member" is welded to the car. The "transmission cross member" holds the rear trans mount and is bolted in with 4 bolts (unless the 73 is vastly different from everything else but my 73 E-Body was just like my 68 B-Body cars). Remove the transmission cross member, tilt engine back so tail of transmission drops to floor, put jack under rear axle to raise the back of the car, slide engine forward and up. Or just unbolt the transmission from the bell housing and remove the 2 separately. Either way, that transmission cross member has to come out.





Troy

The 73/74 is bolted in, Troy. It's a bit of a different setup.