R12 replacement? (12a)

[b5blue]

  Anyone used the substitute Freon such as "Red Tek" or other brands offered to charge older A/C systems? (12a)
http://www.amazon.com/RED-TEK-Refrigerant-Recharge-Gauge/dp/B00HEPH26O?ie=UTF8&keywords=r12%20replacement&qid=1465332939&ref_=sr_1_4&sr=8-4
  I'm getting ready to repair my old 89 Cherokee's A/C system and looking for options/opinions. Got some new hoses and a dryer on the way. Advise? 

[Pete in NH]

Hi Neal,

There really is no such thing as R-12A, it's just a marketing gimmick. Some stuff labeled R-12A is basically R-134A with another refrigerant mixed in to carry the old mineral oil through the system. These mixed refrigerants tend to fractionate, that is leak out at different rates and can eventually starve the compressor for oil.

Red-Tek is basically a butane/ propane mix of some type so it is flammable. It is outlawed in 17 states for that reason. It does work and many people say with all the other flammable stuff on board a car what difference does one mare make.

PM sent on another option.

[b5blue]

I see..... PM sent.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

If you want to keep it R12, I have a bunch of cans available.  

[Aero426]

Pete, I have a real nice  '87 Porsche 944 which still runs R12.    I would prefer not to retrofit it to R134 if I do not have to.    I need a procedure to evaluate what I have.   In other words, is the system just low and can I tell if it is going to leak?     I assume I will need to borrow or rent a vacuum pump and a set of gauges?     Then I assume I need to pull a vacuum and see if the gauges change over several hours?   I think you outlined this for Poppa.    Is this what I need to do? 

Thanks,

[b5blue]

R12 would be great! Please PM me. 
Areo426 you can rent equipment from like Advance Auto. You purchase/use return for a refund. So what you'd do is first find any leaks and fix them. Vacuum the system after replacing the dryer for about 45-60 minutes and wait about an hour to insure the vac. reading is stable. You'll need to measure the charge installed so you don't over/under charge.  (I bought a digital kitchen scale to gauge amount of charge with.)

[Pete in NH]

Pete, I have a real nice  '87 Porsche 944 which still runs R12.    I would prefer not to retrofit it to R134 if I do not have to.    I need a procedure to evaluate what I have.   In other words, is the system just low and can I tell if it is going to leak?     I assume I will need to borrow or rent a vacuum pump and a set of gauges?     Then I assume I need to pull a vacuum and see if the gauges change over several hours?   I think you outlined this for Poppa.    Is this what I need to do? 

Thanks,

Many of those types of German sports cars had barely adequate A/C with R-12 systems. They usually didn't have the room for decent size condensers or good air flow. So, you are wise not to convert to R-134A and keep it R-12.

How to handle and old original system is always a tricky question. It really depends how much, time effort and money you want to put into it. You can tear the whole thing down and replace everything with new components and be good for another twenty years. That's the obvious but expensive way to go. If the system is still basically working but just low on charge, you certainly can try adding some more R-12.

I would carefully inspect the whole system looking for signs of oil leakage around the compressor shaft seal and all lines and fittings. When refrigerant leaks out it almost always takes a trace of oil along with it and dust and dirt will then stick to the oil. If you don't find any of these signs, I would just add some more R-12. If you find signs of leakage you will have to evacuate the system, replace the seal or O ring that is leaking and recharge. Finding a shop these days that can recover R-12 is getting harder.

An R-12 system should have a sight glass, either on the receiver/drier or somewhere along a refrigerant line. If the system has R-12 in it and holding pressure add more R-12 through the low side service port with the A/C system on the high speed setting  and the engine at around 1500 rpm. Add R-12 until the sight glass is clear with no foaming. When at this point add a few more ounces or R-12 and your done.

[ACUDANUT]

IMHO, Trying to maintain a 45-50 old car with cold air is a on going PITA.

[b5blue]

 Well I'm kinda lucky with the Jeep. Parts are about as cheap as they are going to get and the XJ has proven reliable overall. Everything I fixed stayed fixed so it's worth a good A/C overhaul for my son's use.

[ACUDANUT]

Well I'm kinda lucky with the Jeep. Parts are about as cheap as they are going to get and the XJ has proven reliable overall. Everything I fixed stayed fixed so it's worth a good A/C overhaul for my son's use.

Well, we ain't talking about 45-50 year old car either. 

[Todd Wilson]

I have used this stuff and it works good!

R414B

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360972147076?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Todd

[DixieRestoParts]

Years ago, I used a product called Duracool in my '89 D150. Worked better than the R12 ever did. Sadly that truck was totaled earlier this year. I don't know if you can even get Duracool anymore, but if you can, I'd highly recommend it.

[green69rt]

FYI

   
HCFC - R414B

"A blend of R-22, R-124 and R-142b with hydrocarbon R-600a (isobutane) added to improve mineral oil miscibility. This blend can be used to retrofit R-12 automotive air conditioning systems as well as stationary refrigeration systems. The pressure and system capacity match R-12 in 45F to 50F evaporators, and the discharge pressure in hot condensers is only 5 to 10 psi higher than R-12 (a benefit in automotove AC and warmer refrigeration environments). The addition of isobutane to this blend significantly improves mineral oil compatibility, particularly for high viscosity oils used in auto AC."

Ref: Refrigerants.com

[John_Kunkel]

At the risk of repeating myself, all of these R-12 "replacements" are blends of other refrigerants. Problem with blends is the different refrigerants have different molecule sizes so, when they leak off (and they will) , you wind up with an imbalanced blend that can't simply be topped off like the correct refrigerants can.