The new Mopar comerical on tv.................

[bandit67]

Guys, did I see a Mopar comerical on tv that asked " What was the first Nascar to go 200 miles an hour ", and then showed a Daytona, or was it a Superbird?  If so , who was driving it, what year , what race?    Thanks for helping out a newbie.........I was telling this today at the National Muscle Car race in Commerce and could not answer  these questions.......

[pettybird]

that was the #88 chrysler engineering daytona.  Buddy Baker drove it to the first 200 mph closed course lap, unless you believe Bobby Allison, who claimed at the charlotte WW/NBOA meet that he did it the day before, and chrysler told him to shut up or he'd be fired...  has that story surfaced before?

[Ghoste]

Really??   

[69_500]

I believe that there are papers that go along with the Bobby Allison story as well. I think that the claim has always been that Baker did it in the first official attempt to break 200. The others weren't official, I don't know. Interesting story though.

[Redbird]

Doug had an article on the Bobby Allison claim a while ago in his newsletter. So what I repeat is 4th or 5th hand at best. I believe the paperwork that follows the Bobby Allison claim shows "corrected" speed, making allowance to correct for altitude and humidity. The numbers had Bobby Allison actually going 198 or 199 or so, "corrected" up to 200. The actual first over 200 seems to belong to leadfoot, go or blow Buddy.

[bandit67]

Ok, Pettybird, are you saying BB was the first to hit 200 mph on a qualifying lap or the first to hit 200 during a sanctioned race?  What year and what actual race was this record set?  Did others in that race also hit two hundred for at least one lap in that race?  If I were to try and find a picture of this car,  the #88, how would I goggle it.   And now that I hear Bobby Allison may figure into this story.......it becomes even MORE interesting.  Thanks all for sharing........

[Mopurr]

http://www.allpar.com/racing/200-mph-Daytona.html

Ok trying to put a link on here for info on the 88 car.

Charlie has told us the story of hitting a bird while doing those 240+ laps at the proving grounds in which it bent the a-pillar from the impact of the bird.

[pettybird]

no, it was a "closed course, professional driver" affair, just like today's commercials say.  dodge went down to talladega for "tire durability tests" in March '70.  the record stood until mark donohue shattered it in a porsche 917/30 in 1975...that was a hell of a lot more car than a daytona, though...

here's from cotton owens' website:

http://www.cottonowens.com/press.html


From: Cotton Owens Garage
7065 White Ave.
Spartanburg, S.C.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
24th March, 1970

TALLADEGA, Ala. -- There's a magic barrier in all sports: the 4 minute mile in track, the 60 home runs in baseball, and the 200 mile lap in auto racing.  In 1954 Roger Bannister broke the record for the mile by turning in a 3 minute 59.4 record run. Since then 6 other people have cracked that magic barrier, but the name of Bannister still stands in the record books as the man who did it first. In 1961 Roger Maris hit 61 home runs eclipsing the record of 60 homers established by Babe Ruth in 1927.  ris now holds the record, but oldsters will always remind us that Babe Ruth got his runs in fewer games. In auto racing, as in track, the distance and challenge never change. The qualifying record at Indianapolis is 171.953 miles per hour for the sleek, specially-built championship race cars.  But the magic goal has always been to run a 200 mph lap on a closed course. Drivers have been tantalizingly close. Last year Charlie Glotzbach moved the record up to 199.446 in a qualifying run at the then new Alabama International Motor Speedway in Talladega, Alabama.

- 2 -


Charlie's car was the new Dodge Charger Daytona, probably the most aerodynamic stock car ever built. It featured a low, pointed nose and had a high safety stabilizer mounted on the rear. It was quickly nicknamed "the winged thing".....and when Charlie won the pole, it became "the good winged thing". The stage was set. This is where the magic barrier would probably be broken. The 2.66 mile tri-oval track with its 33-degree banking showed promise of a great future. On March 24th Buddy Baker was at Talladega for a series of engineering tests on transmission durability. He drove test car #88, and it seemed possible that this all-out driver might break the 200 mile barrier. If he did he'd make history, but that history would always be subject to question unless the timing was official. The rain out of the Atlanta race forced postponement of three other NASCAR Grand National races this week, and the officials were available. Chief NASCAR Timer and Scorer Joe Epton brought his timing equipment to Talladega....just in case.


The odds weren't good. Like the song says: "When it's a rainy night in Georgia, it seems like it's raining all over the world". Last week more than 10 inches of rain fell on Alabama. On Monday it rained some more. On Tuesday morning there was another thunderstorm. The track was not only wet, but any rubber which had been embedded in the track was washed away. A washed down track is traditionally slower.



- 3 -


But the skies cleared, the sun came out and patches in the track started drying out. But it took a full dry track for tests such as these. Noontime came and went, and by mid afternoon the track looked fit. Epton and his observers and the clocks were in position.  First runs were good for testing, but looked bad on the clocks. The speeds started at 194 and then moved up to 198.5 as Baker "looked for the groove" and the pit crew kept adjusting to get the right chassis set-up. Buddy Baker, 29, the 6'5" son of one of stock cars most colorful drivers, was ready and relaxed. He'd shot skeet the afternoon before and expected to go fishing later in the day. He loves the outdoors and this was a holiday.  On the 30th lap, Joe Epton let out a whoop. The time was 47.857 and the speed was 200.096. Buddy and his Dodge Charger Daytona had done it. The barrier was broken and they flagged Buddy in to tell him the good news. His name would now go into the world record books as the first driver to break the magic 200 mile per hour lap barrier.

The crew, the engineers, officials and Goodyear Tire crew went wild. History had been made, and they were all part of the scene. A stock car racer -- their kind of racer -- had done it.  But after a few minutes of celebration, things returned to normal.  The engineers took over. The test was to go on. Buddy said: "you better keep watching, maybe I'll do it again."

- 4 -


Engineer Larry Rathgeb reminded Buddy that he was here for a test, not a race. "Just get out there and give us some good, hard steady laps and forget about racing. You've already got your record, so now help me get my test done. Then we'll all go fishing." Buddy climbed back into the car and started methodically circling the track in "his groove". Joe Epton and his crew of observers kept watching the clocks. It was obvious that Baker was still deadly serious about running hard on every lap.  The numbers on the clocks flicked away. All laps were close at 200 miles and two more were over. One was at 200.330 and a lap time of 47.807. Another was 200.447 and 47.773 seconds. Not only had the 200 mile mark been broken, but Buddy had bettered on three separate occasions. Now he settled down and ran steadily. That was his job. Today he was a test driver, not a racer.

[bandit67]

Thanks Guys!!!!! Great posts and links.  Very good history lesson of the Aero cars.  I assume the pics on right of the Cotton link were pics of that March 24, 1970  day testing.   In the top shot  where the crew is working on the car, would that be the strips of duct tape  placed over one head lite opening and therebouts , that Buddy  reportably had been appling over the car?   Wonder what his thoughts  were that made him want to try that......hmmmmmmmm, suppose sometime in the past that trick must have made some improvements.   NOW, for sure , I will have to viisit the museum in Alabama.

[Ghoste]

 NOW, for sure , I will have to viisit the museum in Alabama.

A must see stop on my "eventually" list too. 

[moparstuart]

 I think the first place allison went offically public on him setting the record was his autobiograhy . Alot of people says he a blow hard and he really sturred the pot in his book .

[Ghoste]

With notable exceptions like Richard Petty or Bobby Isaac, I think "blowhard" is a term that can be applied to alot of NASCAR drivers.  It takes a tremendous amount of self confidence and macho bravado to jump in a car and drive around in heavy traffic for a few hours at a couple hundred miles an hour.  Except for some of the really really obnoxious guys, I can cut the ones like Allison some slack. 

[Highbanked Hauler]

I believe that there are papers that go along with the Bobby Allison story as well. I think that the claim has always been that Baker did it in the first official attempt to break 200. The others weren't official, I don't know. Interesting story though.

    Weren't they hitting 220 or better on the Chrysler test track?

[Mopurr]

Yes, Charlie Glotzbach did 243 mph at the proving grounds there are  links on reply #6. & #7

[odcics2]

Yes, Charlie Glotzbach did 243 mph at the proving grounds there are  links on reply #6. & #7

Nope. The laws of physics prevail here!   It ran 203 mph with a 'small' Holley, not a Dominator.
Keep in mind that Chelsea is a 4.77 mile oval. The bigger the track, the higher the top speed.
Tires could barely run 200 for a few laps, back then, let alone 243!!

The Hellcat Charger ran 204 on a 10 mile oval.  That puts perspective on the aero superiority of the original 1969 Daytona design.

[Mike DC]

 
Yeah, I've always wondered how that 243 mph claim came to be.  


If you look at the physics involved you start to realize that 243 is HUGELY beyond 200 mph.  Adding 43 additional mph at that level is not like adding 43 mph in the ranges we experience.    

If the wing cars' tires and A-arms and other stuff were famously struggling on 200-mph laps, then I can't imagine the car holding up at 243 mph at all.  I don't know what the brief straightaway top speed was on their 200 mph laps back then but it wouldn't have been near 243.    

   

[odcics2]

Yeah, I've always wondered how that 243 mph claim came to be.  


If you look at the physics involved you start to realize that 243 is HUGELY beyond 200 mph.  Adding 43 additional mph at that level is not like adding 43 mph in the ranges we experience.    

If the wing cars' tires and A-arms and other stuff were famously struggling on 200-mph laps, then I can't imagine the car holding up at 243 mph at all.  I don't know what the brief straightaway top speed was on their 200 mph laps back then but it wouldn't have been near 243.    

   

202.8 (but still pulling) going into turn 3 at Talladega for the 200 run.