Is Shopline a crappy product or do I suck as a painter?

[Kern Dog]

I often buy cars to fix up and sell. Because of this, I'll usually have to paint a car to make it presentable.
My local paint guy used to offer PPG and Omni products but about a year ago they dropped Omni and picked up Shopline. Their clear seems to lay down okay but their basecoat Black and single stage black has given me trouble. I always follow the instructions of the tech sheet until I know I can deviate a bit as needed, but even when following the guidelines, I still get what looks like crud in the finish that does not look like it was airborn particles. It seems as if unmixed solids in the paint somehow makes it through the gun and contaminates the finish. As said, their clear has never given me this problem. I'm of the understanding that all paints, primers and clear have solids that blend together when in liquid form, so I think I'm onto something. Many years ago I was painting a truck and misread the tech sheet, mixing double the catalyst on accident. There were several uniformly spaced specs on my first several passes, so I dumped that pot and corrected the mistake. Afterwards the correctly mixed paint sprayed well.
Anyone have bad luck with Shopline products?

[JR]

I just had the exact same problem when i painted my 70 a month ago. Little chunks of basecoat colored debris in the base. I assumed it was trash in the gun but the problem was still there after i recleaned the gun and mixed more base.

And on top of that, the FY1 yellow covered the white epoxy sealer only marginally better than dirty water. It took a whole gallon to get decent coverage on my 70. And that was without spraying the (vinly covered) roof.

My ppg guy doesnt carry Omni anymore either. I dont know why.

Next time i have to paint anything im switching brands.

[Kern Dog]

The thing is, you think you're saving $$$ by buying the cheaper stuff. You end up laying on twice the paint to get the same coverage. Even if the cheap stuff is 1/2 cost, it really isn't saving any money. I will seriously consider going with PPG in the future.

[b5blue]

If your not color matching factory the "Kirker" brand I used worked quite well and is holding up nicely. (No help now for you but next time maybe, good paint for the cost.)

[Pete in NH]

My understanding is that Shopline and Omni are the same paints from PPG but offered in a different distributor set up. If you're a distributor selling other paints lines as well as PPG you are called a "Platinum"  distributor and get Shopline. If you're an exclusive PPG seller you get Omni.

[Kern Dog]

Thanks for the "business" explanation. The paint supplier does qualify as a "Platinum" distributor. I am more interested in whether the inconsistant results are the fault of the product or the person that mixes and sprays it.
So often in life I jump in to do things without knowing much about the subject at hand. Most of the time I have a bit of a learning curve then my skills improve. During this learning process, I'm often curious if the tool or product is to blame OR if the problem lies with my inexperience.

[jaak]

The thing is, you think you're saving $$$ by buying the cheaper stuff. You end up laying on twice the paint to get the same coverage. Even if the cheap stuff is 1/2 cost, it really isn't saving any money. I will seriously consider going with PPG in the future.

True that. I have used Omni in the Past, and it mixed 4:1 with reducer, giving you 1.25 gallon of sprayable material (in theory) but OMNI was so thin, I had to ditch the reducer after mixing the first cup. Now PPG on the other hand Mixes 1:1.5 giving you 2.5 gallons of sprayable material and coverage is excellent. So you got to look at more than just price per gallon, its what you get after you mix.

I tell you a base I was real impressed with I used not long ago, is WANDA. There is a guy locally that has a small business in his garage and this is the paint he mixes. IIRC you reduce the base 25% with reducer, but man the coverage was great, and it matched/blended well. I had to paint the drivers side of my wifes minivan, blending on the rear quarter, hood and a-pillar. I bought a quart of 'Almond Pearl Metallic' it was like $73 bucks. Good paint, I will surely use it again.

Jason

[Pete in NH]

I've heard a lot of good things about Wanda also. From what I understand it's a top of the line paint from Brazil. Rather strange name but , I understand it was named after the founder of the company's daughter back in something like 1934. It's now owned and marketed by Azko-Noble. From what I've heard, you get a quality paint for a really good price. The catch is there is no technical support beyond what you might get from your local seller. I've looked at their tech data sheets and they seem complete enough that you shouldn't have any problems with the use of the product. And, actually for hobbyist uses like many of us we wouldn't get any more support or product warranties from the majors like PPG or Dupont. I'm considering Wanda for my 69 Barracuda project.

[fizz]

Painted some motorcycles and a hot rod with sherworm Williams custom colors that you buy from Napa. Really awesome paint, about 3 times as expensive as standard paint. Then they discontinued it, not even available special order. Now I have a vehicle painted inside and out, top and bottom with a color that will be impossable to match once I am out of the quart I have stashed away. Lesson: buy paint you know you can duplicate.

[Kern Dog]

I just had the exact same problem when i painted my 70 a month ago. Little chunks of basecoat colored debris in the base. I assumed it was trash in the gun but the problem was still there after i recleaned the gun and mixed more base.

And on top of that, the FY1 yellow covered the white epoxy sealer only marginally better than dirty water. It took a whole gallon to get decent coverage on my 70. And that was without spraying the (vinly covered) roof.

My ppg guy doesnt carry Omni anymore either. I dont know why.

Next time i have to paint anything im switching brands.

I'm painting a 64 Valiant for a friend and he bought Shopline paint. I laid down a coat last weekend and had random fisheyes in several areas. I sanded the car and laid down some primer sealer. ZERO defects. It laid down clean everywhere, though I had a few rough finish areas and had to sand them smooth before applying paint.  I mixed more paint, THIS time a different color, (Still Shopline brand) and got more fisheyes in random areas. I googled "Fisheyes in paint: Causes" and one strange cause is deodorant.
Huh?
It seems that most gel type deodorants have a component that can cause fisheyes. I don't know if this is what is causing my problem though. The primer went on fine. Maybe primer is more resistant to fisheyes?
My friend and I have been wracking our brains trying to determine the root cause. Tack rags? Airborne specs or silicones? The actual paint itself? I'm spraying in an enclosed garage with box fans to extract the fumes. Plastic sheeting on the walls and ceiling to minimize dust. Water traps in the air supply line. We have tried isolating issues like using different paint guns, cleaning the gun with reducer instead of acetone, I wear latex gloves after washing the car to avoid skin oil contamination....
The next test is to spray the hood with primer following with paint...NO sanding or tack rags. I'm suggesting we spray one side with Shopline and the other with some leftover Omni paint I have here. If the Shopline has fisheyes and the Omni does not, at least we can narrow it down to the paint being the problem.

[Pete in NH]

I would think fisheyes are almost always a surface contamination issue. Silicone's like Armor all are the worse offenders and almost impossible to remove. Is there any possibility silicone's got anywhere near the car or many be oil is in the air supply lines?

Also, exactly what procedure are you using to prep the surface, wax and grease solvents, wipes, etc. SPI (Southern Polyurethanes) is now recommending the use of both a solvent based wax and grease remover and a water/alcohol based cleaner as well as each type does a better job with different contaminates.

[73rallye440magnum]

Fisheyes are likely a surface contaminant or in your air supply.

Clean with a water based cleaner as well as your conventional chemical cleaner- might resolve your fisheye issue.

It's been awhile, but I liked the Wanda products I used.

Sikkens used to have a great epoxy that could also be utilized as a sealer- never had fisheye issues.