What do I do next?

[fatboy]

Hey guys,
I just dropped my K member along with all the front suspension and brakes. I am restoring this 69 and am trying to decide what to do for handling. I have read a lot of threads on here about the pros and cons of different mods. It is going to be an occasional driver but I would like it to handle decently around corners. I was thinking maybe Hotchkis UCAs and shocks? Is the factory sway bar good enough or should I upgrade to the Hotchkis?
Also on the brakes I want to go to discs. Unfortunately money is an issue so I'm not working with an unlimited budget. All advice welcome and appreciated.
Thanks,
Lee

[comet_666]

If your on a budget you need to set priorities. Hotchkis is more expensive than like a moog front end rebuild kit and PST.
https://www.performanceonline.com/1963-76-Dodge-Plymouth-Chrysler-Mopar-A-Body-Suspension-Rebuild-Kit-Front-DELUXE-Poly-Urethane/

https://www.performanceonline.com/1973-79-Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth-Charger-Cordoba-B-Bilstein-Shock-Absorbers/

Here is a nice brake conversion kit I bought.

https://www.performanceonline.com/62-74-MOPAR-Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth-Disc-Brake-Conversion-Kit/

Nothing wrong at all with Hotchkis but if your on a budget and all..

[fatboy]

That's good info. Just the kind I'm looking for. Have you installed that brake kit yet? If so, do you like it?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Depending on the budget, brakes 1st, then suspension.

[Dino]

Stock Charger suspension is more than adequate.  When restoring a Charger I would weld subframe connectors, torque boxes, and other chassis goodies in place first.  Spend money on brakes and good shocks.  Replace all bushings and just focus on having all stock parts function as they should.  If you have power steering you may want to get a firm feel upgrade, steering is the worst part of these cars IMO.  I have a bigger sway bar up front but have done no other mods and I am not afraid to throw this car into turns.  They are really not bad riding cars at all. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Its not hard to drop the pressure on the powersteering pump, made mine a totally different car. Costs about $3 vs a new steering box.

[HPP]

Obviously a rebuild is in order. Most recommend Moog, which is very good. TRW is also a  good brand name. You can get them from Rock Auto at a decent price. I've usually picked my kits up from PST and have had good results. One suggestion to your rebuild process, pickup some Moog offset upper control arm bushings and install them opposite of the instructions. This will allow you to get more caster out of the kit than stock, which old mopars desperately need. Cost for this, around $400.

Disc brakes, if money is an issue, you may want to scrounge up  salvage yard parts from a later mopar. This may require some new calipers, pads, and bearings/seals. Depending on pricing in your area, how much new stuff you buy, or if you pick up an all inclusive kits this could run from a couple of hundred to a grand.

After that, the most important aspect of a decent handling Charger is a solid platform to work from.  You need to shore up the flex in the car to allow the suspension to do its job. As such, the minimal starting point for this would be sub-frame connectors or a set of torque boxes. You  can get as fancy with this as you want from basic 1x3 tubing to contoured connectors. If you want it to all look stock, the  torque boxes can impart a stock look that helps firm things up over nothing at all. I'd say these are minimum to start with  body bracing. You  obviously can add even more pieces in more areas to really step up creating a solid car, but you  need at least this first step.  Firming up the body also has the side benefit of reducing squeaks and rattles, allow panel gaps to remain constant, improving window seal and reducing wind whistle. Costs for this can be as low as $20 if you cut and fab and weld your own to a few hundred for custom fit contoured units that someone else installs.

The next thing I'd do is get a radial friendly alignment. While this  may need to be done again after some other changes, sometimes simply doing this entirely changes the  personality of the car. If you have a good shop, they  may have already done this, but odds are, they probably didn't. Ask for 2000 Mustang specs to simplify the process. These keep your  shop tech from being confused about the uniqueness of the mopar set up and putting  the OEM specs under, especially if they don't do custom work. OEM  alignments are  for skinny bias ply tires. Unless you are using Firestone Wide Oval repops, avoid  factory specs. If your shop does do custom work, you want  5-7* positive caster, -.5-0* camber, 1/16" toe in, or maybe  .08* toe in.  The reason for this is positive caster increases stability, creates more dynamic tire orientation during suspension cycling, and  helps increases road feel. The  negative camber also increases the tire's ability to stay in touch with the road surface, especially with softer torsion bars. The toe  minimizes wear while  keeping the tires as straight forward facing as possibly with all the  joints in the  steering system. $40-100 depending on your local shop rates.

After that, better shocks. Since you want a good handling street car, there is no need to get crazy with adjustable units. The RCD Bilsteins would be  great for this. $400 for this update. If you are really in a pinch, Monroe Gas Magnums can make do and can support  increased torsion bar rates under 1" if you go there later. If you don't plan on changing the torsion bars or leaf springs, you can get by with these. They are only $100 for a set, but the Bilsteins are a huge improvement so I'd encourage you to  use them instead especially if you plan on stepping up spring rates in the future.  Shocks are like camshafts- there have been a lot of technological advancements in them  and as the core of the suspension system, you don't want to cheap out here.

After that, you are getting in to some real stepped up improvements that will transform your car, but come with a price tag. These will significantly step up driving pleasure, but if you are cash strapped for updates, you can always add these piece by piece later. So next, a  stepped up front  sway bar. The tubular units are a nice step up in performance. $300 here. You can  add a control arm strap or plate to  help apply some of that force as well as the bigger bar imparts a  big increase in force on the lower arm. Compared to the stock  .875" bar, a 1.125" solid or  1.25" tubular  bar  is going to do a lot of controlling body roll in  corners and imparting a more confident feel.

After the front bar comes the addition of a rear sway bar.  New Hellwig and Hotchkis models can be adjusted to further dial in feel, so that is a nice position to be  in, but is not a requirement. This saves you a couple hundred bucks.

After sway bars, if you still want to  add improvements, then this is where some stepped up  torsion bars and leaf springs come into play. Moving up to 1" diameter  t-bars will match nicely with the previously selected shocks and provide a big step up in wheel rates that are much more late model in feel. Hotchkis does suggest 1.12 for their components and it certainly can be felt.  Torsion bars may be found as cheap as $200 but will most likely be $350+

Stepping up the front without a comparable step up in the rear will typically produce an unbalanced car that  understeers worse than  stock.  I'd suggest changing  leaf springs to match the torsion bars are the same time or  at least in stepped replacement with each other.  This is where the matched sets provided  by Firm Feel or Hotchkis are help full. There are several sources for these. Expect to spend around $400-500 depending on how customized you want these to be.

So the recipe looks something like this:

suspension rebuild $400
sub frames $150
alignment $100
Shocks $400
front s-bar $300
rear s-bar  $200
t-bars $350
leafs $400

total  $2300

IMO, I'd put the Hotchkis control arms on after the list above is completed. Not because they aren't good, but they are very expensive and their biggest gain is caster improvements. If you really drive your car a lot, then you may benefit from them sooner, but you would have to substitute something else off that list to move them up in rank.

After that list, any additional improvements are going to incremental and not a big bang result. Also  worth considering, the steering box shim trick mentioned earlier. While steering does not actually contribute to handling capability, it does contribute to driver feel and the stock mopar boxes are considerably over-assisted. If your box is toast and needs replacement, then you may as well step up to a Firm Feel unit, but that takes a $500 bite out of the budget if you have to replace it.

[myk]

Hotchkis front and rear sways, Hotchkis shocks and Mopar Performance subframe connectors.  This will set you back $1500 and will transform your Charger into a surprisingly capable handler despite its size and age.  This is assuming of course that you have disc brakes and a competent wheel and tire combination.   Some would argue that the biggest improvement you can make is a larger rim and a low profile, sticky tire.  Now if you need wheels and tires add another grand or so to my previous estimate.  Keep in mind that you don't need to buy Hotchkis' sky high priced pieces either.  You can go with HPP's recommended parts and get the same results.

I just installed the full Hotchkis TVS and can confidently say that for a driver that just handles well you don't need the entire package.  If you're planning to drive hard and push the car to the limit then the expensive suspension upgrades can be worth it but you'll get diminishing returns on your money.  But hey, you only live once right?

[Patronus]

Some great info here 
Plus, if you add the nitrous, you'll have the power to pull through the turn!

[fatboy]

Thanks for the great info guys.

Dino - Do you still have the white Charger in your signature? I painted mine white because I haven't seen that color at all around here. Then one popped up for sale 30 miles from here last week. Hopefully someone far away will buy it. Go figure.

cOOnhunterjoe-How do I drop the pressure on the pump?

HPP - Man, your fingers must hurt from typing! That is really great and detailed information along with pricing. I appreciate the time you took with that. By the way, I can't find anyone selling RCD Bilsteins for the 69 Charger. Do you have a source?

myk - I read your post about the trials and tribulations of getting that Hotchkis setup dialed in. More good info. I also just looked up the cost of that TVS setup and I think I will have to sell my house to buy that one! Since I'll be using old school 15 inch wheels and tires, I wouldn't get the full benefit out of it anyway.

So after reading all of this from you guys I think the most practical and economical approach for me will be to:
suspension rebuild $400
sub frames $150
alignment $100
Shocks $400
drop pump pressure $0 I hope
disc brake conversion ? I'm still wondering if anyone has used the brake kit that comet_666 posted. It seems awful cheap compared to the rest I've looked at.

Once again-Thanks guys!
This site has a wealth of knowledgeable people who aren't afraid to share. I wouldn't be as far along as I am without this board!

Lee

[comet_666]

That's good info. Just the kind I'm looking for. Have you installed that brake kit yet? If so, do you like it?

Installed easy, have not driven it yet..another month or 2 and I'll know.

[HPP]

No problem. This is such a common question, I have it all typed up and stored on my disc drive. The original is much longer and I just cut and edit what is needed for the response I'm answering. But yeah, I can type pretty fast. 

Bilsteins can be picked up at Firm Feel or PST. The nice thing about using Firm Feel and/or Hotchkis is if you decide to add more of their pieces later on, you can always sneak up on the necessary parts as your wallet allows.