High hp build

[RGA]

I scored a 440 block crank and heads today, block is 76 bored 30 over, heads are 516 with valve job done, standard crank and six pack rods. I want to build a race only motor that will pull the front tires. I know I need the suspension and chassis work to hook up but I need to start somewhere. Has anyone here built a naturally aspirated high compression 440 ? Any pointers or stuff to stay away from ? I want to start this week. Here is my list of stuff I am thinking

440 .030 over
13.1 dome top Pistons
Balanced rotating assembly
0 deck the block and line bore
Huge solid lifter cam - tips ?
Adjustable roller rockers
Head work on stock heads, port and polish and bigger valves, maybe set of 915 heads
E85 race carb
Single plane intake
Oiling system ?
Ignition system ?
Gear drive timing
Front motor plate

I will be posting pics as it comes along

[redmist]

Why not some boost???

[Challenger340]

Has anyone here built a naturally aspirated high compression 440 ?

a "few"...

IMO,
Forget 13:1, especially on non-stroker 440 builds, because, the Piston "Dome" required to get there.... shuts off too much of the Chamber for good flamefront propagation.
All you will end up doing hammering the crank & mains harder, usually #4 the worst.
(That's why Stroker engine combo's have the advantage for higher Compression Ratios over smaller 440's... because they move more "Volume" being bigger, and can make higher compression with little to no dome.)
just say'in..
On a 440... Use enough compression pressure to satisfy the Cam events, with as little piston "Dome" as possible on a 440 for best results. Domes exceeding approx 12 CC, so as to "NET" 6 CC over the Flycut Volume are about all you want.... law of diminishing returns above low 12's to 1 on a 440.... YES... even on your hydroxide group "OL" Fuels with Ethan"OL".

Iron heads aren't a good idea as a start point on a race effort these days ?....  because the amount of Money you will spend Rebuilding, buying Parts, and Porting them, will FAR exceed what you could have bought better flowing.... completely assembled with all new parts....  NEW Aluminum Heads for !
and stock 516's with a valve job... well ? not a whole bunch of air to work with ?

Six-pack Rods are a 6,000 rpm deal... safely.... That's it... That's ALL !
Some run them higher... just say'in... IMO, eventually they will exit stage bottom above 6,000 consistently over time.
Even WITH new ARP fasteners, which co-incidentally are the same 3/8" fastener used in the much lighter "stock" LY Rods.
See the problem ?
Same "fastener".... but much heavier Rods ?

Not trying to ruin your day.... but really, with the parts you have ? if you are going to use them ?
stay 500-550hp and sub-6,000 rpm, it'll pull the wheels with a Tranzbrake, some suspension, and tire & gearing.

[RGA]

Has anyone here built a naturally aspirated high compression 440 ?

a "few"...

IMO,
Forget 13:1, especially on non-stroker 440 builds, because, the Piston "Dome" required to get there.... shuts off too much of the Chamber for good flamefront propagation.
All you will end up doing hammering the crank & mains harder, usually #4 the worst.
(That's why Stroker engine combo's have the advantage for higher Compression Ratios over smaller 440's... because they move more "Volume" being bigger, and can make higher compression with little to no dome.)
just say'in..
On a 440... Use enough compression pressure to satisfy the Cam events, with as little piston "Dome" as possible on a 440 for best results. Domes exceeding approx 12 CC, so as to "NET" 6 CC over the Flycut Volume are about all you want.... law of diminishing returns above low 12's to 1 on a 440.... YES... even on your hydroxide group "OL" Fuels with Ethan"OL".

Iron heads aren't a good idea as a start point on a race effort these days ?....  because the amount of Money you will spend Rebuilding, buying Parts, and Porting them, will FAR exceed what you could have bought better flowing.... completely assembled with all new parts....  NEW Aluminum Heads for !
and stock 516's with a valve job... well ? not a whole bunch of air to work with ?

Six-pack Rods are a 6,000 rpm deal... safely.... That's it... That's ALL !
Some run them higher... just say'in... IMO, eventually they will exit stage bottom above 6,000 consistently over time.
Even WITH new ARP fasteners, which co-incidentally are the same 3/8" fastener used in the much lighter "stock" LY Rods.
See the problem ?
Same "fastener".... but much heavier Rods ?

Not trying to ruin your day.... but really, with the parts you have ? if you are going to use them ?
stay 500-550hp and sub-6,000 rpm, it'll pull the wheels with a Tranzbrake, some suspension, and tire & gearing.

Thanks for the info, I was thinking about the stroker kit and some aluminum heads but figured 440 was big enough, I have built lots of 500-500hp motors, doesn't take much to get there with a 440. Currently running one. I want to go all the way, race only scary fast on this one. I have never built high compression ( over 10.5 ) never run a solid cam, never run aluminum heads. So that's why I'm asking. Stroker kits start at $1800, aluminum head sets are around $1500 and from what I'm reading they still need to be worked over. The big strokers need a remote oil pump. So I guess I should rephrase .... Scary fast but on a budget. Use the old school guys tricks, they didn't have these big stokers 30 years ago and they were hitting single digit ET's.

So to sum it up
440 is a no
Cast heads are a no
High compression is a no
6 pack rods are a no

Oh yea and I herd these blocks come apart over 800hp.


Consider my bubble burst.

[RGA]

Why not some boost???

No boost on this one, I was thinking of maybe some NOS

[c00nhunterjoe]

Scary fast....all out.....  then build an aluminum 572..... got one in the plymouth. Its relativly mild and puts out 805 at the flywheel.

[Challenger340]

 A 440 inch will propel a 4,000 lb B-Body mid to high 10's with 4.10's and 28" Tires without too aggressive a camshaft or high maintenance build.
More than a few guys doing it, with nothing too fancy.

You can go faster yet.... but IMO, bigger camshafts and higher rpm's are not worth the $$ spent for the time it lives.
so,
even lightening from 4,000 lbs closer to 3,000 lbs for low 10's to high 9's makes more sense vrs reliability... hence the popularity of easy build 700hp BB A-Body Cars.
I mean why push a "440" to 750 or 800 when you KNOW it will break quicker ? When staying 700 hp or so they will live decently for awhile ?

Basics on 700+ hp.
440
12 CC Dome(6 cc Flycuts) so "net" 6 CC Dome.
H-beams
440-1 "Zeeker" INDY Head pkg. setup..... bowl cleanup, max port cleanup(pisses the INDY guys when ya phone and call it a "zeeker" head instead of "INDY" head.... "Zeeker" designed it... Flagles just bought the rights and called it INDY)
INDY Intake
CRANE Track Roller .625" lift, easy on springs
Should be between 12.3 to 12.5 to 1 C.R.(no point going higher.)
6,500-6,800 rpm....where-ever it likes to run.....  shift... shift.... call it a day !

10" Convertor
Tranzbrake
Caltracs
DANA 60 rear, (because 8 3/4" diffs don't like being hit with tranzbrakes.)

Yeah, even with studs on the stock bolt mains.... anything past 650 hp it's a "time" thing, gets worse as you go higher.
Get 3-4 seasons, inspect, make a call on #4 maincap which takes the worst of it.
Fawk.... I got a couple of those been running since 1990's, been re-Blocked once for mains starting to show bad .... but that's it... that's all... still running great !

Sorry 'bout the bubble... not my intent.

[c00nhunterjoe]

A 440 inch will propel a 4,000 lb B-Body mid to high 10's with 4.10's and 28" Tires without too aggressive a camshaft or high maintenance build.
More than a few guys doing it, with nothing too fancy.

You can go faster yet.... but IMO, bigger camshafts and higher rpm's are not worth the $$ spent for the time it lives.
so,
even lightening from 4,000 lbs closer to 3,000 lbs for low 10's to high 9's makes more sense vrs reliability... hence the popularity of easy build 700hp BB A-Body Cars.
I mean why push a "440" to 750 or 800 when you KNOW it will break quicker ? When staying 700 hp or so they will live decently for awhile ?

Basics on 700+ hp.
440
12 CC Dome(6 cc Flycuts) so "net" 6 CC Dome.
H-beams
440-1 "Zeeker" INDY Head pkg. setup..... bowl cleanup, max port cleanup(pisses the INDY guys when ya phone and call it a "zeeker" head instead of "INDY" head.... "Zeeker" designed it... Flagles just bought the rights and called it INDY)
INDY Intake
CRANE Track Roller .625" lift, easy on springs
Should be between 12.3 to 12.5 to 1 C.R.(no point going higher.)
6,500-6,800 rpm....where-ever it likes to run.....  shift... shift.... call it a day !

10" Convertor
Tranzbrake
Caltracs
DANA 60 rear, (because 8 3/4" diffs don't like being hit with tranzbrakes.)

Yeah, even with studs on the stock bolt mains.... anything past 650 hp it's a "time" thing, gets worse as you go higher.
Get 3-4 seasons, inspect, make a call on #4 maincap which takes the worst of it.
Fawk.... I got a couple of those been running since 1990's, been re-Blocked once for mains starting to show bad .... but that's it... that's all... still running great !

Sorry 'bout the bubble... not my intent.

This is VERY similar to what I put together for my car, only difference is I picked a larger cam. Exact same package went 154 mph in a 3400lb car

[RGA]

A 440 inch will propel a 4,000 lb B-Body mid to high 10's with 4.10's and 28" Tires without too aggressive a camshaft or high maintenance build.
More than a few guys doing it, with nothing too fancy.

You can go faster yet.... but IMO, bigger camshafts and higher rpm's are not worth the $$ spent for the time it lives.
so,
even lightening from 4,000 lbs closer to 3,000 lbs for low 10's to high 9's makes more sense vrs reliability... hence the popularity of easy build 700hp BB A-Body Cars.
I mean why push a "440" to 750 or 800 when you KNOW it will break quicker ? When staying 700 hp or so they will live decently for
Basics on 700+ hp.
440
12 CC Dome(6 cc Flycuts) so "net" 6 CC Dome.
H-beams
440-1 "Zeeker" INDY Head pkg. setup..... bowl cleanup, max port cleanup(pisses the INDY guys when ya phone and call it a "zeeker" head instead of "INDY" head.... "Zeeker" designed it... Flagles just bought the rights and called it INDY)
INDY Intake
CRANE Track Roller .625" lift, easy on springs
Should be between 12.3 to 12.5 to 1 C.R.(no point going higher.)
6,500-6,800 rpm....where-ever it likes to run.....  shift... shift.... call it a day !

10" Convertor
Tranzbrake
Caltracs
DANA 60 rear, (because 8 3/4" diffs don't like being hit with tranzbrakes.)

Yeah, even with studs on the stock bolt mains.... anything past 650 hp it's a "time" thing, gets worse as you go higher.
Get 3-4 seasons, inspect, make a call on #4 maincap which takes the worst of it.
Fawk.... I got a couple of those been running since 1990's, been re-Blocked once for mains starting to show bad .... but that's it... that's all... still running great !

Sorry 'bout the bubble... not my intent.

Sounds like a pretty good recipe. Thanks, I've been looking at heads for last couple days, what do guys think about the Eddie victor heads ? That way have more options on intake.... Like maybe tunnel ram, friend of mine has one set up already I could have.

[fy469rtse]

yes , I've used the victors,
yes good options on intakes, there was an issue for mine at time of build , availability of rockers with the correct offsets,
rocker covers, couldn't use stock or any after market ones except the fabbed sheet welded ones, had issues with clearances to rockers, oh and also clearance to push rods, anything over stock required work there
bit of porting and cleaning up,match porting to gaskets and intake were a bit off, intakes not machined for carburettor angle, had to do that , but i also have a simple milling machine so this was easy
lucky i did port matching before i milled carby base , because intake actually port matched better on backwards to match ports , no ones noticed as yet  ,
I would do your research on availability on rocker set ups as i had few options,
flow great with a bit off work,
watch when you purchase your headers for these, TTi make two sets as i have learned , street and race, they sent me the race set and didn't fit a street car, i sent them back ? they didn't tell me of the other set, found that out much later on here, i used a black uncoated set off Doug's, 2" primaries ,then cut and modified everything to suit
these heads lift everthing up and out , issues with fittings in engine bay
they get close to booster and heater fan motor, very close,
i also had to relocate starter solenoid up and over as there was no room,
but if your friend has this set up and discounted with most of the things parts purchased, i would take a good look   
   

[RGA]

yes , I've used the victors,
yes good options on intakes, there was an issue for mine at time of build , availability of rockers with the correct offsets,
rocker covers, couldn't use stock or any after market ones except the fabbed sheet welded ones, had issues with clearances to rockers, oh and also clearance to push rods, anything over stock required work there
bit of porting and cleaning up,match porting to gaskets and intake were a bit off, intakes not machined for carburettor angle, had to do that , but i also have a simple milling machine so this was easy
lucky i did port matching before i milled carby base , because intake actually port matched better on backwards to match ports , no ones noticed as yet  ,
I would do your research on availability on rocker set ups as i had few options,
flow great with a bit off work,
watch when you purchase your headers for these, TTi make two sets as i have learned , street and race, they sent me the race set and didn't fit a street car, i sent them back ? they didn't tell me of the other set, found that out much later on here, i used a black uncoated set off Doug's, 2" primaries ,then cut and modified everything to suit
these heads lift everthing up and out , issues with fittings in engine bay
they get close to booster and heater fan motor, very close,
i also had to relocate starter solenoid up and over as there was no room,
but if your friend has this set up and discounted with most of the things parts purchased, i would take a good look  

thanks for the info, still not sure what I'm Gona do, blocks at the machine shop right now to get cam bearings and freeze plugs and checked. Need to make a desicion soon. Looking real hard at the Indy set up. Also had another buddy bring me a set of 915 heads today that have oversized valves and nice port job. Said he would trade me for a posi 8.75 third member I have. Guys are excited for the 440 build.