440 Source stroker kits. Feed Back From Owners Pleases!

[cudaken]

 OK still daydreaming about going fast!  

After reading all the praise's of stroker kits. mainly 440 Source kits, what are the disadvantages if any?

Guess it was 25 years ago I wanted to build a 400 stroker and at the time the people I trusted told me they where very peaky and did not make a good street engine. So I sold the 400 block and went with a 440. There was a lot of special machine work as well to fit the 440 crank into a 400.

I have checked out the 440 Source site and if I have read it right, there 383 kits come with Piston's, Rod's, Crank, Bearings and Rings it has gotten me thinking!  

They offer a 438 and a 496 CI versions, which would be better for a street car? My self, I like to keep the RPM's down around 5800 to 6000 RPM's max if not lower. I have never blew up a Mopar Yet and have to plans to start!

I am all so thinking of using my original 383 from the 68 Road Runner that I pulled out when I dropped in the 426. Motor has 89,000 miles on it. While I am not a numbers guy, I don't want to break it either!

If I have read it right, there is a chances no machine work will need to be done to the block and if there is, should not be much? (Not counting the normal stuff)

I think I read one of the guy's here was having a rear main leak with a 440 Source stroker kit? What would need to be done to stop this before it happen?    

If by the graces of God I can start this project I will be forced to start with stock 906's. But it would be a start.

Cuda Ken Daydreaming again.



 

[General_01]

I got the 496 kit for my 383 a few years ago. Runs and idles great and melts the tires with ease. The 438 would be more than enough for the street. I went 496 for no other reason then "because I could". 

I was told by the shop that built it for me that the rear seal problems was because the knurling was not right on the cranks. They learned this on other engines they had built before I ever took mine there. I have had no problem with the rear seal on my engine. The shop I took it to is a racing engine shop. Wheeler Racing in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area.

[cudaken]

 Minneapolis-St. Paul, I had two shops up there at one time and loved the area. I like Snow! I was all so amazed how many Mopar I saw compared to St Louis!

01, did you ever figure out the odd RPM thing? I read the link. 

Cuda Ken

[General_01]

I went to 15" tires(275/60/15) and I kept adjusting the clutch as well. It was a new clutch assembly and I was getting used to a clutch after not driving one for about 15 years so I think I was wearing it in a little more than I thought and might have been getting some slippage. Either way it is OK now. Just glad I didn't need to rebuild the rear end.

Glad to see you got Miss Lumpy moving. I think you probably drove her about as much as I drove my car this year. Just haven't had the real desire to take it out this year. I had to get myself motivated just to pull the oil pump and replace the gasket because I had a leak. It started last year. The late winter we had here(still had snow on the ground mid-late May this year) and knowing I had to fix the leak before I drove it kinda kept my enthusiasm down. Sometimes I just don't want to drive it because I am wondering what I will have to fix next. It's fun to fix stuff and upgrade it because you want to, not because you have too. Also, my cousin who I usually cruise with and go to cruise nights and shows with has been doing some things to his car so I also didn't have somebody to go to shows with this year. I will probably take it out a few times because the weather is cooling down and I will want to drive it thinking that the exhaust fumes will delay winter. 

[Challenger340]

Like the old saying goes...
"One can never exceed the speed of their wallet"
so it is also true...
"The Engine underneath can never overcome the Heads above"

IMO, 2 things to think about with using stock Cast Iron 906's Heads...even temporarily
* a 496 inch, depending upon Camshaft, will probably be out of air at 4,500 rpm
* What compression Pistons can you order NOW for 906's on 91 Octane, that can still use LATER when changing to Aluminum Heads(if that's the plan) and still get 10.3 or so to 1 Compression ?

[kamkuda]

Cant go too wrong with more cubic inches.
The issues i have heard with the 440 source cranks have been on the radius on the journal and working with the bearings to fit.  The worst problem and I am unsure if it was fixed was the indexing on the crank.

[cudaken]

 Challenger 340. I am with you that the key is in the heads! While with stock or mild 906 heads it will never get close to the power it could make, I would have something to work with later on. It has been 10 years scenes my last build so the prices maybe off.

$160.00 Machine work to do the big end of the rods.
$180.00 Machine work for the crank.
$180.00 To balances the lower end.
$730.00 For a Oh Hum forged pistons, rings, gaskets and bearings.
$1250.00 Total for a 383 I don't really want. While I think the 383 is a great engine! I still fell there is no replacement for displacement.  

So I might as well build a 440.

$1250.00 For parts and Machine Work.
$ 300.00 For a Forged 440 and crank. Yes, I know where I can get one.
$1550.00 Total and still smaller than I could build a stroker 496. Plus I still need better heads to make all the power it could.

Then the extra stuff I would like to do like polishing the rod beams, shoot peen and have them harden.

Far as compression? I think 906's have 88 cc heads? Flat top pistons with 30 over yields 10.85 to 1. Dished 30 over yields 9.51 to one.

I think depending on the cam 10.85 is do able on today's gas, I know 9.51 is and with Aluminum.

Main thing at this point is I want to know what the stroker kit weakness are?

Ken

[Challenger340]

Main thing at this point is I want to know what the stroker kit weakness are?

Ken

Apologies here on my part Ken, I am not trying to be difficult, it's just that I do this for a living, and that is in fact one of the BIGGEST weaknesses I see on a regular basis....being HEADS.... that people wish to use on the Strokers ?

The rotating Assembly Parts themselves are usually OK, some require re-machining to vary'ing degrees, but hey...they are cheap and a guy gets what he pays for. Have the Rotating Assembly checked over thoroughly by your Machinist.
* Pin-fitting on both the Rods & Pistons should be Checked/Done
* Vertical Bearing Clearances Checked/Done
* Bearing Chamfers Checked/Done
All pretty basic stuff.....

This is going to be simplified, just for explanation here of what I'm getting at on the Head thing....
Say we have a set of Heads, any Head, but in this case 906's. If the 906's are capable of...lets call it "X" for Flow...and "X" is good enough for "Y" amount of power at 5300 rpm on a 440....add another roughly 60 cubic inchs to 496.....or 14% more Engine underneath....well...see where I am going with this....the 5300rpm becomes 4550 rpm pretty quickly.....and "Y" or the power stays basically the same.
This of course makes some "assumptions" not necessarily 100% valid, but like I said...just for explanation here and close enough.
So....
If you could have had 450hp from a 440(respectable), you now have a very SAD excuse for a Stroker...almost embarrassing to say it's a 475hp "496"
Yes, there ARE OTHER FACTORS...and Torque will be enhanced...the above is just for BASIC EXPLANATION of what I am getting at here for best results?

The second problem with Head selection on Strokers, when planning to switch to Aluminum later, but using Cast Iron in the Interim....is trying to select a Piston & Cam combination for the 906 Cast Iron Head(open chamber) with NO QUENCH whatsoever, that will run on 91 Octane now, and later when switched to the Aluminum Head(Closed Chamber WITH Quench)...and ADDS about 1 pt of Compression for the Aluminums greater Heat Dissipation.
Yes,
adding the smaller Aluminum Head Chamber later is going in the right direction bumping compression for the Aluminum....but my point being...trying to make the Open Chamber Cast Iron Head function in the interim.....THAT will be the problem ??

Sorry for the novel....
I don't think there are any real "problems" with the 440 Source Kits themselves on a regular basis, it's hit & miss, just have it checked over carefully, usually OK these days...far better than a few years back.
Without lots of Headwork on the Stealths or Eddy's....that's why I am such a fan of stock inch 440/451's with better rpm ranges/geometry.  

[68charger440]

Main thing at this point is I want to know what the stroker kit weakness are?

Ken

Apologies here on my part Ken, I am not trying to be difficult, it's just that I do this for a living, and that is in fact one of the BIGGEST weaknesses I see on a regular basis....being HEADS.... that people wish to use on the Strokers ?

The rotating Assembly Parts themselves are usually OK, some require re-machining to vary'ing degrees, but hey...they are cheap and a guy gets what he pays for. Have the Rotating Assembly checked over thoroughly by your Machinist.
* Pin-fitting on both the Rods & Pistons should be Checked/Done
* Vertical Bearing Clearances Checked/Done
* Bearing Chamfers Checked/Done
All pretty basic stuff.....

This is going to be simplified, just for explanation here of what I'm getting at on the Head thing....
Say we have a set of Heads, any Head, but in this case 906's. If the 906's are capable of...lets call it "X" for Flow...and "X" is good enough for "Y" amount of power at 5300 rpm on a 440....add another roughly 60 cubic inchs to 496.....or 14% more Engine underneath....well...see where I am going with this....the 5300rpm becomes 4550 rpm pretty quickly.....and "Y" or the power stays basically the same.
This of course makes some "assumptions" not necessarily 100% valid, but like I said...just for explanation here and close enough.
So....
If you could have had 450hp from a 440(respectable), you now have a very SAD excuse for a Stroker...almost embarrassing to say it's a 475hp "496"
Yes, there ARE OTHER FACTORS...and Torque will be enhanced...the above is just for BASIC EXPLANATION of what I am getting at here for best results?

The second problem with Head selection on Strokers, when planning to switch to Aluminum later, but using Cast Iron in the Interim....is trying to select a Piston & Cam combination for the 906 Cast Iron Head(open chamber) with NO QUENCH whatsoever, that will run on 91 Octane now, and later when switched to the Aluminum Head(Closed Chamber WITH Quench)...and ADDS about 1 pt of Compression for the Aluminums greater Heat Dissipation.
Yes,
adding the smaller Aluminum Head Chamber later is going in the right direction bumping compression for the Aluminum....but my point being...trying to make the Open Chamber Cast Iron Head function in the interim.....THAT will be the problem ??

Sorry for the novel....
I don't think there are any real "problems" with the 440 Source Kits themselves on a regular basis, it's hit & miss, just have it checked over carefully, usually OK these days...far better than a few years back.
Without lots of Headwork on the Stealths or Eddy's....that's why I am such a fan of stock inch 440/451's with better rpm ranges/geometry.  

I know this is an old thread, but let me just confirm what was said here with real life experience.  I put the 440 source 500" stroker kit in my 440 in my 68 charger with the eddy performer intake and cam.  I couldn't afford the heads yet so I used my stock 906's and just had the machine shop re-do them with no port work, but new valves, seats etc.  Just as was estimated in this thread, I top out at around 4500 rpm.  Plenty of low end torque, but forget the top end.  Mine also has a rough idle, but I think that is not the stroker kit with the 906 head's fault, or maybe it is.  I can't figure it out!  Anyway, for those from Missouri who need to be shown let my experience be the proof in the pudding that you can build the lower end all you want, but then the heads will be the weakest link.

[cudaken]

68 Charger 440, thanks for the input! Like I told 340 Challenger I know the heads are the key to power. But, beside the bad idle I bet the car is a blast to drive, am I right? 

Cuda Ken

[comet_666]

I was looking at their 512 stroker kit with the cnc stealth heads. Anyone have any experience with this combo at all?