New Engine not starting

[Calif240]

I'm getting super frustrated... I have a brand new 440 with a Holley 750 Double pumper, electric choke mechanical secondaries. MSD 6AL Box, Firecore Distributor and Wires. I can't get it to start at all. I have validated that it is 5-10 degrees BTDC, there is spark in the cylinder (the carb actually will backfire some and shoot a flame here and there), I reset the idle mixture screws to two-turns out like suggested, but I just can't seem to get her fired. I was hoping you guys could offer a few suggestions for me to try as I've been beating my head for a few days now and searching every board I can find without success.

Thanks,

Terry

[randy73]

crossed SP wires and dist 180 degrees out are my two first thoughts. You are using new gas and have checked the car to make sure the floats are setup right?

[Calif240]

I verified spark plug wires are correct and dist is in phase. The rotor is aligned w number one plug when damper shows TDC on timing marks. I just dropped in some brand new 110 octane. Struggling to think of what else it might be but frustrated as heck!

[Calif240]

Just for clarity... it can't be 180 degrees out of phase and still have the rotor pointed towards number one plug at TDC  on the timing mark and timing light showing right around 5-10 degrees of advance when cranking, right?

[cudaken]

Just for clarity... it can't be 180 degrees out of phase and still have the rotor pointed towards number one plug at TDC  on the timing mark and timing light showing right around 5-10 degrees of advance when cranking, right?

Well it shouldn't, but for the heck of it, try 180 degrees out and see what happens.

Will your Fire Core set up run with out the MSD box? If so, give it a try.

Is the damper new? If it is new, could be a factory defect.

Have you checked to see if you have compression?

I can think of a lot of things that could be wrong and not simple things. But more than likely it is going to be something stupid and simple.

First thing I would do is try advancing and retarding the timing and see if you can get the engine to hit. All so pull number 1 plug and see if you have compression at TDC.

Good Luck, Cuda Ken

PS, are you a Model Railroader? Your icon looks like one I know from a Model Train site.

[XH29N0G]

Just for clarity... it can't be 180 degrees out of phase and still have the rotor pointed towards number one plug at TDC  on the timing mark and timing light showing right around 5-10 degrees of advance when cranking, right?

The rotor points to the #1 plug and the crank reached the top of the cylinder two times for every time it fires.  Once for expelling exhaust gases and then inhaling a good fresh mixture of air and fuel, and once to drive the crank around (the compression stroke).  

I had my distributor 180 out and it would backfire and spit, but not start.  The way to check (as I understand is to put your finger over the plug opening and see that compression is building when the piston is rising to what you think is TDC.  If the exhaust valves are open (for expelling gases) compression should not be building.  This is the point cudaken and randy73 are making - it needs to be on the compression stroke to be right.

[Back N Black]

The timing mark can be at 0 degrees and the rotor pointing at number one on the exhaust stroke, this means number 6 is on compression and ready to fire. That's why it important to feel the pressure of compression on number one cylinder.

[Calif240]

Gotcha... I misunderstood what 180 out meant then. This is probably the reason. So TDC occurs twice during the revolution of the distributor. The distributor is tied to the speed of the camshaft, which is geared 1/2 of the crank w timing chain. Since it is 1/2 geared, TDC can be on compression stroke or exhaust stroke, and still show timing correct w a timing light. By that same token, the timing light only flashes one out of every two rotations of the crank? Awesome... I think a big frickin light bulb just went off... Haha. Thanks guys!

PS... If in jumping to a conclusion here, let me know... Or if I don't quite fully understand still...

Terry

[firefighter3931]

Terry,

Get the engine to TDC with #1 cylinder firing (piston top of bore) and advance it to 15* btdc. Fill the bowls through the bowl vents and hit the key....she'll fire ! 

Make sure you get the revs up to 2000 and keep it there for 20 minutes to break in the cam. Use the proper break-in lube as well 


Ron

[XH29N0G]

One more thing (and Firefighter or others can correct if I am wrong), If this is the first time you have done this, do the first start with someone helping and check/correct the timing on the first run. 

When I did this for the first time, I had a hard time keeping the car running (timing was retarded I think) and had to keep the revs up to keep it running.  This sent a lot of heat out the exhaust and I do not think that was good. 

If I had a helper, I would have been able to check timing and adjust during the first 20 minutes of 2000 rpm.