440 rear seal leak issues

[Dmichels]

I consider myself a decent mechanic. But I am not so bullheaded to not ask for help when I need it.

Timeline
Rebuilt the motor in 95, I installed a new rear seal. It came with the cardboard side piece that you soak in oil before installing them. No leaks for 15 years of use. Now maybe I was not so picky on a driver but I did not think it leaked
2012 Motor has 40,000 miles on it Pull motor, before repaint/ Decided to pull the pan replace bearings seals timing chain etc. Notice new Fel Pro seal tells you to use RTV on the sides. What happened to the nice filler pieces?
2013 install motor in car and start, rear seal starts leaking pretty bad, I think it is because of the bull SH*T  RTV side seal. I buy a new MOPAR seal and install it. It comes with red silicone side seals that are a pain to install. When I pulled the Fel Pro seal I saw a lot of oil in the seal retainer under the seal. I thought the seal was not making good contact in the retainer so I put a little RTV under it, I also put a little on the upper seal when I rotated it in place.  I start it up and all look ok. A few days  latter I notice a few drips after every drive. This  is not nearly as bad as the first leak but it is still there.
Yes the seal lip is installed corectly
What am I missing
Thanks Dave

[moparsr2fast]

Is this the factory retainer?  You could take about. 010" off the bottom surface where it mates to the block, and it sometimes is enough to compensate for the seal style. Otherwise, buy a billet retainer, and it will fix the leaks.

[Cooter]

You will never stop a rear main seal leak in an older engine with two piece rear main seal entirely. It will always leave a drip here, a drip there.

[Dmichels]

it leaks a little more then "just a drip" I am not that picky. Cooter are you saying there is a 1 piece seal that you can install with the crank?
Dave

[Cooter]

it leaks a little more then "just a drip" I am not that picky. Cooter are you saying there is a 1 piece seal that you can install with the crank?
Dave

No.. That's just it. It is a two piece and rarely do they not leak. Round the shop, we have TWO kinds of leaker. The "My wifey is bitching about the garage floor" drip leak, and the "Holy hell, I lost 2 qts of oil in 30 seconds of idling!" leak...

I built a freash 440, stuck it in Christine, fired it up, POURED oil out the rear main seal. Removed seal, inspected, got pissed as found NO PROBLEM, re-installed NEW seal from another supplier and no more leaks. You tell me?

[Chryco Psycho]

I HATE the new FelPro seals , no clue why they deleted the fiber side piece & went to pipe cleaners WTF is that about , either reuse the fiber side piece or check with other seal companies for  the side strips , I have started to do a 45* bead of Right Stuff sealer between the seal plate & the block to fill the gap inside , tough to get in there but with a long skinny screwdriver it is possible

[chargerbr549]

I was wondering the same thing on the rear main seals not coming with fiber side strips anymore and instead coming with two short pipe cleaners when I put my 512 together. The assembly guy at the machine shop I used to work at told me that  part of the reason he thinks they eliminated the fiber strips is because sometimes the machined area for the seal retainer is not always exactly on crank centerline, he said that the seal retainer is supposed to be torqued down first then slide the  fiber strips down the sides and sometimes you will have to sand down the strips on one side or the other to make them fit in the holes whereas if you installed the retainer with the side strips at the same time then torque it down sometimes it will have a tendency to push the retainer to one side or the other depending on how the block is machined. If I remember correctly with the pipe cleaners they are supposed to be soaked in water then fill the holes with silicone and push the pipe cleaners in hole, the moisture in the pipe cleaners will help cure the silicone.

When I did my rear main seal the new way it will still drip a little here and there just like Cooter said, I don't believe I have had a big block that didn't leak there LOL!

Kevin

[Cooter]

Sh*t, I've been sealing SB Chrysler intakes along the frt. and rear and BB Chrysler Rear main caps sides for YEARS with Permatex Balck RTV. Didn't leak along the sides. Oh no, couldn't be that simple. I had to pull the Effing seal itself out. Not a damn thing worng with it either. (Yes, it was in correctly), just freaking leaked. Two piece seals SUCK! I swear, the old "rope" seals were better.

THANK GOD for a one piece rear main seal. Too bad they don't offer a "kit" to convert a BB Chrysler.

[chargerbr549]

We had an issue a couple of months ago with one of the race motors that we build for the desert trophy trucks, it's a sbc dart block that we see once or twice a year for a freshen up, it's always sealed up nice but this last time it was not happy at all, we went through three rear main seals before it finally sealed up and they were all installed correctly and looked liked there was no reason for them too leak, no wonder engine builders go bald!!

[Fred]

 I had my engine built by a top notch professional who knows his engines inside out (and he knows that I hate oil leaks so he took extra care to get it right). So imagine my surprise when, after I installed it in my 68  and took it for a drive I had an oil leak from the rear main seal. Boy was I spitting chips!  To cut a long story short, I went and bought a Viton Rear Seal and a Silicone Rear Seal End Strips Kit from 440 Source and installed it myself.
Guess what?.......no more leaks, not even a drop. That was 4 years and 17000 miles ago ...... and all is still well.

[chargerbr549]

I didn't know 440 Source had that I will definately give that setup a try next time, thanks for the info!

[Fred]

I didn't know 440 Source had that I will definately give that setup a try next time, thanks for the info!

[Cooter]

I think the true problem is supply of inferior parts that APPEAR to be correct. Bout the only way you can tell for sure is to install it and see what happens.
We hadda Temp sender yesterday looked Normal, no reading. Swapped with another and got a reading. Problem is, I fear we will see more andm ore of this type sh8t. Parts suppliers NOT telling anybody when they decide to go with 'Sweat shop' Parts from some little country I've never heard of and they couldn't tell me the difference between a TPS sensor and a T-body.

Only as good as the parts you can get.

[Steve P.]

Cooter, I agree. Only I think that started a long time ago.. It's a sad situation for sure.

[69wannabe]

Went through this rear main seal problem for the first time with the engine that is in my charger now. I had built a 383 several years ago for it with no rear seal issues, in 07 built a 440 and dropped it in with no rear seal issues. 2010 pulled the 440 and removed the rotating assembly and installed a "500 kit" into the same 440 block that had no rear main issues. Got it running and big oil leak at rear main. Dropped oil pan and ordered side seals from 440 source and a hp orange rear main seal. Put all back together and still leaking Ok so ordered a billet rear main seal cap, new side seals and orange rear main seal again and dropped pan again and replaced once again and guess what, oil still leaking!! Ok so out it comes with the engine with the quickedness and I took it to my machine man for his inspection. He sent the crankshaft off and had the rear main seal journal checked and had it trude up to specs. According to the crankshaft place it had a high spot on it. He put it all back together and I shoved it back in there and got it running. Well the first day not a drop. So I think finally its fixed but no the next day a few drips after I warmed it up then the next day several more drips! At this point the gloves were off and I became a pro at pulling this thing out for I think was about three times and I ran into an old guy I used to work with and I asked him what to do with this thing and he says "have you tried a rope seal?"  I said well uh no. So I pulled it apart and ordered a fel pro rope seal and put it in there and finally no drips from the crankshaft anymore. The old 833 still has a lil drip but the engine stays dry thank goodness!! I don't mind a drip here or there but not a constant drip, drip, drip, from the same spot right in front of the flywheel. That just wasn't going to cut it. I have an extra rope seal in my tool box now for the next rear main seal problem!!