The verdict on EFI...I DO NOT recommend..

[Kern Dog]

Yea kinda weak.

You're a little slow to understand so I will spell it out better for you.
If you're not running electric fans, fuel pumps, big stereos or much beyond the factory equipment, there is no need for the higher amperage alternators. The stock 40 amp alternators were common in non A/C A bodies. Those cars never had power door locks, windows and rarely had power convertible top motors. You had a heater/defroster and the lights and dash board accessories.
The factory stuff works within the limits of the stock arrangement. I have a 63A in my car and even at idle it charges at 13.7 with the headlights on. Yeah, if I have the A/C fan going and am at a stop light with the brake lights on, the alternator struggles but picks right up with some rpm.

[b5blue]

 

[John_Kunkel]

seems my Radiator fans, which are wired to the ignition, are too much of a power draw. Pull fuse on fans & car starts every time.

Another error by those who did the electrical. Cooling fans need to be powered by the battery through an ISO relay...the relay handles the fan load and the ignition switch only powers the relay.

[John_Kunkel]

You're a little slow to understand so I will spell it out better for you.

Uncalled for.

If you're not running electric fans,

He already clearly stated he is.

[AKcharger]

Fans are currently are powered by Batt through relay but at moment "triggered" through ignition, otherwise they run as soon as you turn key. Change I have to Make is have fans triggered by the EFI with is based on temperature. the EFI trigger is supposed to keep system de-energized better? 

Shop had fans wire to "BATT" outlet on fuse box so even in accessory the fans ran...they used to do good work don't know what happened

[AKcharger]

Got the $50 adapter, now EFI controls fans...turns them on when it gets hot. Problem now is when it's hot fans turn on  with key and doesn't start.

BUT!! I think I found the solution  to ALL these problems!!!

[b5blue]

Consider "Idle output".

[John_Kunkel]

Got the $50 adapter, now EFI controls fans...turns them on when it gets hot. Problem now is when it's hot fans turn on  with key and doesn't start.

Run the fans power source through an ISO relay triggered by the Start circuit...that will shut the fans off when the starter is engaged.

BUT!! I think I found the solution  to ALL these problems!!!

Go back to carb? A step backward.

[Kern Dog]

A carburetor will keep you running long after an EFI module or sensor craps out on a road trip 200 miles between auto parts stores that might or might not have repair components.

[John_Kunkel]

A horse will keep going long after your new-fangled ottomobile craps out.

[Kern Dog]

Okay, I'll admit...you got me there.
Still....
I'm not against a well sorted EFI system but it seems that these aftermarket setups are a compromise when compared to an OEM 5.7 Hemi or similar system. The automakers have a lot more money invested and have to warranty their products or face huge fines.
If I ever do a 3G Hemi swap, I will consider using some form of OEM style EFI for reliability, service and parts availability. You could probably find injectors or coil packs for a 5.7 as easy as a gasket set for a Holley 750, maybe even easier.
I have a buddy that had shit luck with a FITech system and another that had better luck but the second guy is a mechanic by trade so he probably carried spare parts to keep from getting stranded. The first guy got towed home 3 times and had enough, then put an Edelbrock 800 on the car and hasn't has a problem with it.

[John_Kunkel]

I have a buddy that had shit luck with a FITech system and another that had better luck but the second guy is a mechanic by trade so he probably carried spare parts to keep from getting stranded.

Or, the second guy, being a mechanic by trade, installed the unit correctly which included making sure the electrical system was up to snuff. My FITech was installed in July of 2015 and hasn't left me stranded one time.

[Kern Dog]

Maybe so. I think he had a shop install it at first with that underhood "fuel command center" that was a workaround for those that didn't want to use an electric fuel pump. Of all the aftermarket EFI systems, FITech seems to have had the most complaints. Of course, it was also the cheapest.
You can make Harbor Freight stuff work but it sure takes a higher skill level to do so. The advertising for these systems often try to depict their systems as being "plug and play" and "self tuning" but those that have direct experience know that just isn't true.
If one can make them work, they do get the benefits of a throttle body system....a design the OEMs abandoned once Multi-port systems were adopted. Many of the problems with carbureted systems will still exist with a throttle body system since you still have the same intake manifold design and the same distance from throttle blades to intake valves. You cannot time a throttle body injector to spray milliseconds before an intake valve opens.
You probably gain cold start improvements, altitude change enrichment and lean-out but from what I have seen, heard and read, there is rarely a power increase over a well tuned carburetor.
If you like it, that is great. Just like our tastes in women, we don't have to agree for both of us to be right.

[John_Kunkel]

You probably gain cold start improvements, altitude change enrichment and lean-out

One thing you failed to mention is the advantage to cars that aren't driven regularly. When fuel evaporates from the carb bowl it's a routine of pump the pedal, crank, pump the pedal again, repeat as necessary until it starts.

AKCharger has outlined the trials and tribulations of his installation but I wonder...how does it perform after it does start? Are you happy with that?

[Kern Dog]

Good point. Sometimes the extended cranking is really annoying. I resort to squirting fuel from a bottle down the vent tubes and a little in the throttle bores to expedite a cold start. The convenience of just turning the key is a great point.

[Back N Black]

I was think about going to fuel injection but my carb works great. Its a Proform 850 double pumper, great throttle response and it can set for a month, pump it 3 times and she fires right up. I know fuel injection will start faster cold, but that's not enough for me to switch.

[AKcharger]

AKCharger has outlined the trials and tribulations of his installation but I wonder...how does it perform after it does start? Are you happy with that?

On occasion it does start it runs great! throttle response good, starts are easy and seems to run well. Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to really romp on it, however I am convinced with a properly operating EFI system it would make the car SCREAM.  The EFI was going to realize cars full potential (stroked 400/470, Aluminum heads, decent cam) but as stated the install was butchered and I'm tired of having a non-running car. Carb re-install is in-progress.

[AKcharger]

and guys there's a LOT more to this, of course if it was as just the fans I'd run a toggle switch, but even with the fans off and fuse pulled starts are sporadic to the point I'm surprised when it does start! 

The decision to remove comes after serious consideration. the ONLY course of action to REALLY fix this is basically buy another complete kit and redo EVERYTHING and Its not that important to me,  consider:
-  With the mis-wiring there's no end to possible electrical damage and all the brains are in the throttle body
 - Replumb fuel system...The shop put the electric fuel pump right up on the front rail near pax floor, the install
   manual gives a CAUTION & notes 2 more times pump has to be as close to the gas tank as possible. it's also LOUD!
- Install complete new wire harness and relays.
- Basically, everything short of installing a return fuel line in the tank has to be re-done.

[Kern Dog]

I just noticed your location.
Florida.
The benefits of an EFI system over a properly tuned carburetor are worthless to Florida residents.
It doesn't get cold there. There isn't much change in elevation.
Unless the car sits for months at a time, there is no benefit in my opinion. Even then, a small inline pusher pump could fill the carburetor enough to get the car started after a hibernation.
I'm not against trying new things but there has to be very few minor drawbacks to make it feasible.

[AKcharger]

yeah the cars don't get driven much and when I do drive I don't beat them. If I really wanted to go fast I's just go buy a Tesla Plaid S and get a road worthy 9 sec 1/4 mile car I can drive to work...Chargers are just for show :-)

[Kern Dog]

Speed wasn't my point.
EFI has been proven to NOT make any more peak power than a well sorted carbureted engine.

[John_Kunkel]

Not everybody is fixated on speed, the key factor for me is driveability i.e. the degree of smoothness and steadiness of acceleration of an automotive vehicle. The definition of this will differ with the individual. If someone who says their carbed car "runs great" lets me drive their car I might disagree.

[69hemibeep]

I've been watching this thread for some time and I have a little input. One I have a 68 Valiant with a mild 440, 727 with 323 gears that I had 750 double pumper tuned the best I could, and I'm no novice. Ran smooth lots of power no stumble and then I bought a Holley sniper for my jeep which I decided to go another direction with so I end up with this sniper. I purchased an in tank pump pickup (not cheap) for the valiant for the sniper install. The in tank unit makes the return line issue go away and I must say the cold start, pick up in RPM when the A/C comes on fan control and power increase I can feel in the seat was well worth it. I since put one in my daughters 69 440 powered Charger and it works great!!! 

[Kern Dog]

There are advantages to both EFI and carburetors. I can appreciate the desire to have the smoother operation that a well designed EFI system delivers. I drive EFI vehicles as daily drivers and yes....they do drive better than my older carbureted vehicles in cold weather and altitude changes. Otherwise, the EFI mainly shines in fuel economy. It is apples and oranges though since the EFI vehicles have less cubic inches and more efficient combustion chambers and the advantages of the computer controlling and adjusting fuel and spark curves.
I have toyed with the thought of a port injected EFI system but my cheap side still wonders about the cost/benefit angle.

[69hemibeep]

It took allot for me to jump into EFI being I'm generally old school. I'm now doing a 68 AMX 390 4spd A/C car that will stay carbureted with points ignition. Between the AMX and Charger I stay busy, My daughter is coming in from LA and will want to work on her Charger and I know with the EFI it will start and drive out of the back storage area.