Well after having some serious engine oiling problems I am having to tear down and recheck everything. I have decided to re evaluate cam choice since the direction I've gone with the car has changed. More street now.
The specs for the engine
approximately 9.8:1 compression
speedpro forged pistons
ly rods shotpeened,resized, with arp bolts
forged crank
ported and polished 452 heads
hp manifolds
3" exhaust with x pipe
the convertor i've got in it now is a 3200 stall but I'm thinking I should go down to a stock around 2600 stall.
And the rear is a 3.55 suregrip with 295/50 tires mounted.
Does anybody have a good cam recommendation to really work with this combo?
With the HP manifolds you need a wide LSA to reduce overlap. An excellent cam for a build like yours is the Crower HDP282 hyd flat tappet grind. Nice street manners, lots of vacuum for power accessories and a little lope at idle. :2thumbs:
Ron
I'm surprised I didn't get a recommendation on an engle from you. Lol
I take it you have used crower without any issues as well? I've never used a crower before.
Hyd , Solid , Roller ?
I'm wanting a hydraulic cam.
Quote from: moparguy01 on April 26, 2011, 01:19:33 AM
I'm surprised I didn't get a recommendation on an engle from you. Lol
I take it you have used crower without any issues as well? I've never used a crower before.
Ya Russ, i had that cam in my old 440 & it was built almost identical to yours. It ran excellent and pulled hard to 5800 rpm :2thumbs:
This is an off the shelf cam profile....anything similar from Engle would be a custom grind :yesnod:
This cam will drop right in with no valveguide trimming so it's a plug & play deal as long as your valvesprings are up to the task ;)
Type in pn 32243 @ the link below for the cam card to the HDP282 :
http://www.crower.com/cam-card-finder/
Ron
Sounds like a good cam for the street then. Much more up to it than the comp extreme energy I have in there. I just decided this needs to go more streetable and stop using the "bigger is better" mentality.
I forgot to mention, I assume this has a real nice lope to the exhaust note? Can't have a mopar without that you know. :lol:
Yep, it has a nice lope but nothing too radical....it won't be mistaken for stock :icon_smile_big:
It pulls about 16in of vacuum so power brakes are no problem and it's easy to tune. I ran it with 18* initial timing & 36* total @2500 :yesnod:
What XE cam are you currently using Russ ? What intake manifold ? What carb ?
Ron
I don't remember the number off hand but it's a .545 intake exhaust gross lift. I tried to look at the number but their site sucks.
The intake is a edelbrock performer with a eps 800 carb. I have considered a intake swap to a dual quad just for the fun of it.
The cam you have now is an high lift xe285hl which is quite a bit larger on the duration and with a slightly narrower LSA. :yesnod:
That intake is a cork....you need to ditch it ASAP ! :eek2:
If you don't go with the dual quad setup use a Performer RPM or better yet a vintage CH4B with a 750 ProForm carb :yesnod:
Ron
Are you saying the cam I have would work if I used a different intake setup?
Quote from: moparguy01 on April 26, 2011, 12:22:16 PM
Are you saying the cam I have would work if I used a different intake setup?
That cam needs more intake, carb, stall, gearing and a set of headers. :yesnod:
-Performer RPM or Street Dominator
-850 double pumper
-3800-4000 stall (9.5in dynamic would be perfect)
-3.91-4.10 gears
-1 7/8 X 3 Header
Ron
Have you eve used a offenhauser dual quad? There's on the bay with a pair of weber carbs pretty reasonable.
I wondered if it might need more gear which willkill off highway usage.
Thanks for all your help!
the Offy 360* manifold isn't great, with short runners and little division between them. I'm using an Eddy dual-plane dual quad on my 505.
Weber carbs add to the learning curve and difficulty of tuning.
I had a CH4B on my 440 with 850dp Holley and loved it. Here's a CH4B on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CH4B-440-Mopar-Edelbrock-manifold-CHRY2836150-/270737692765?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f0939585d#ht_500wt_1182
Quote from: elacruze on April 26, 2011, 04:29:48 PM
the Offy 360* manifold isn't great, with short runners and little division between them. I'm using an Eddy dual-plane dual quad on my 505.
Weber carbs add to the learning curve and difficulty of tuning.
I had a CH4B on my 440 with 850dp Holley and loved it. Here's a CH4B on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CH4B-440-Mopar-Edelbrock-manifold-CHRY2836150-/270737692765?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f0939585d#ht_500wt_1182
That manifold has had the center divider milled out, ,might be best to avoid it.
I have the Crower cam as recommended by Ron and I'm using the CH4B with a smallish (700 cfm) double pumper and HP manifolds. Power is still down from where I'd like because of low compression but those parts were a big improvement. Decent street combo with an assertive exhaust note.
I also have the Crower 282, ch4b manifold, 9.4-1 compression ratio, mildly ported iron heads, 750 Holley, HP manifolds with twin 2 1/2" exhaust with ultra flows and it is a real fire breather for such a basic old school combo, pulls to 6000rpm real quick.
I have been debating myself on get the Crower 271 or 282s for my build soon, pointing out to 9.5 CR ( toward more to the 282, but I'm sure lot of ppl will say me 271 ). After read those specs, there is nothing what I like better than those specs I read. I can't find any Comp, Hughes, Engle etc that matchs better with a streetable and performance build like those without any kind of job on heads for valve guides and seals. Of course not telling by my experiences but reading by the ppl experiences when talking about those kind of numbers specs
Now the next important question. With the crower cam can I use a single spring? I've got a set of the comp springs on it now that were recommended for that 285hl that are dual springs with a damper. Unfortunately it makes it a pain in the butt for cam break in usig only the outer springs.
The Comp #911 valvesprings will work fine with the HDP282....it's a single spring with a dampner. Fits perfectly with the stock retainers & locks. :2thumbs:
Ron
Quote from: firefighter3931 on April 26, 2011, 12:17:45 PM
The cam you have now is an high lift xe285hl which is quite a bit larger on the duration and with a slightly narrower LSA. :yesnod:
That intake is a cork....you need to ditch it ASAP ! :eek2:
If you don't go with the dual quad setup use a Performer RPM or better yet a vintage CH4B with a 750 ProForm carb :yesnod:
Ron
Ron, just wondering, do you prefer the CH4B over the RPM in this situation/combo? Any particular reason? Thanks.
Quote from: LowDeck451 on March 11, 2016, 01:51:21 AM
Quote from: firefighter3931 on April 26, 2011, 12:17:45 PM
The cam you have now is an high lift xe285hl which is quite a bit larger on the duration and with a slightly narrower LSA. :yesnod:
That intake is a cork....you need to ditch it ASAP ! :eek2:
If you don't go with the dual quad setup use a Performer RPM or better yet a vintage CH4B with a 750 ProForm carb :yesnod:
Ron
Ron, just wondering, do you prefer the CH4B over the RPM in this situation/combo? Any particular reason? Thanks.
In terms of performance the CH4B is an excellent manifold and doesn't give up much to the RPM if anything. The CH4B is lower and pretty close to stock height so the stock throttle/kickdown linkages will work and you can also use a stock air cleaner assembly.
Conversely ; the Performer RPM is much taller than stock, requires modified throttle and kickdown linkage and also needs an aftermarket drop base air cleaner assembly to clear the hood....stock air cleaners will not fit.
I've got a CH4B sitting on the shelf for a future 493 "street build" that will use the factory HP exhaust manifolds and a set of aftermarket aluminum heads. I'll want that engine build to have the stock look under the hood :coolgleamA:
Ron
And milling the divider might add a bunch of power. Just saying. :whistling:
Quote from: BSB67 on March 11, 2016, 05:36:58 PM
And milling the divider might add a bunch of power. Just saying. :whistling:
I will put a paycheck you are right. However, even milled, i still feel that manifold is leaving alot of power on the table. It is not hard to get an rpm under the stock hood and in my experiences, would be a much better all around performer, especially on a 493- even mild. I have never ported the ch, so that could be a game changer as well since i assume it would be modified on this engine to match the flow of your heads.
Sure. Sometimes there are different or competing objectives.
Quote from: BSB67 on March 11, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
Sure. Sometimes there are different or competing objectives.
Right, and thats why im curious where ron is going with this. Somehow i doubt bone stock heads are going on this 493, so going through all the work of a stroker and headwork seems counterproductive to put a stock ch intake on. :scratchchin:
Sounds like: Mill the CH (making it a single plane, for the bigger stroker 'lungs') and have hood clearance & stock looks, or a Street Dom.- clearance & non stock looks, or an RPM and have neither.
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on March 11, 2016, 11:40:07 PM
Quote from: BSB67 on March 11, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
Sure. Sometimes there are different or competing objectives.
Right, and thats why im curious where ron is going with this. Somehow i doubt bone stock heads are going on this 493, so going through all the work of a stroker and headwork seems counterproductive to put a stock ch intake on. :scratchchin:
Of course there won't be an iron head going on this build ;) I have a complete 493 rotating assembly sitting on the shelf and several blocks to choose from. With an 84cc chamber it'll have 10.5:1 static compression using a .040 head gasket and zero deck. The pistons are 14cc inverted dome (dish) by Diamond racing with a Scat crank and Scat H-beam rods. This is going to be a cruiser build and I'm even contemplating a 4 spd swap. I've never owned a std trans musclecar and this one won't be raced. Going to keep the 3.23 gears and use a 275/60 rear tire.
With regards to the CH4B ; It's a pretty descent manifold and moves enough air to achieve my power goals for this build which are pretty conservative ; 550hp/600tq with a nice flat torque curve. :yesnod:
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0207-intake-manifold-engine-and-rpm-range-test/
With the divider milled down and a 1/2in open spacer for increased plenum volume I don't see a problem meeting the performance targets. :cheers:
Ron
Quote from: firefighter3931 on March 13, 2016, 07:23:03 AM
Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on March 11, 2016, 11:40:07 PM
Quote from: BSB67 on March 11, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
Sure. Sometimes there are different or competing objectives.
Right, and thats why im curious where ron is going with this. Somehow i doubt bone stock heads are going on this 493, so going through all the work of a stroker and headwork seems counterproductive to put a stock ch intake on. :scratchchin:
Of course there won't be an iron head going on this build ;) I have a complete 493 rotating assembly sitting on the shelf and several blocks to choose from. With an 84cc chamber it'll have 10.5:1 static compression using a .040 head gasket and zero deck. The pistons are 14cc inverted dome (dish) by Diamond racing with a Scat crank and Scat H-beam rods. This is going to be a cruiser build and I'm even contemplating a 4 spd swap. I've never owned a std trans musclecar and this one won't be raced. Going to keep the 3.23 gears and use a 275/60 rear tire.
With regards to the CH4B ; It's a pretty descent manifold and moves enough air to achieve my power goals for this build which are pretty conservative ; 550hp/600tq with a nice flat torque curve. :yesnod:
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0207-intake-manifold-engine-and-rpm-range-test/
With the divider milled down and a 1/2in open spacer for increased plenum volume I don't see a problem meeting the performance targets. :cheers:
Ron
Although I like reading all the articles, I put little faith (okay, no faith) in the actual numbers from articles. Getting 550 hp on you buddy's dyno up in VT will be a lot lot harder than on Westech's. However, I think your goal is attainable.
On back to back pulls the divider milling/spacer on a much better dual plane than the CH4B made an additional 6 hp from 3700 rpm to 6000. The graphs plotted together for the two pulls are beautiful. Perfectly parallel and off set by the 6 hp. The results would be more dramatic on the CH4B, as it would be more restrictive than the 2D.
I dont buy the numbers on the ch intake. I had the dp on my 383 and lost a solid 4 mph on my 383 testing it vs the torker on multiple passes same day at the track. The car felt terrible with that intake. Granted it was not milled- bone stock. :shruggy:
While i still feel that intake will hold you back a great deal, your goals should be easily achieved and will probably have a torque curve similar to the one heyoldguy just posted a few threads down.... on a stick car, that will be smiles from ear to ear all day long! Oh, im sure you probably already planned on it, but in addition to milling the divider and the spacer, i would suggest port matching at minimum as well.