ECS REPRODUCTION BUILD SHEET LIST

[resq302]

Aarow,

There should be a lot more choices.  Like you said:

3)  I could care less.
4) Why should I care?
5) I make fake things too, so do I need to reply to this survey!   

[charge69]

I found 2 buildsheets in my Charger when disassembling it. One was in the springs of the back seat upright and the other was actually IN factory undercoating spray in the passenger footwell which was used, I guess, for a little insulation. They were both in poor condition with parts of the sheet missing from both.

We spent about 2 hours cleaning up both. We used a parts-cleaner bin with running parts cleaner and a soft bristle brush to clean the worst one to the point you could read the numbers pretty clearly. They were both so fragile, after they dried, I took them and had them laminated in plastic.

Now, laying the better one on top of the worst one, I have a complete build sheet for my car and if I ever care to show either the car or the buildsheets to someone, they look old, classic, and interesting.  Yes, they do have All the numbers and belong to my Charger. The fendertag is there too and will be left on the car as when I am out driving it, my Charger will never leave my sight. Absolutely no leaving it with the hood up!

I cannot think of a senario where a pristine buildsheet would be better. YMMV.

[FC7 V code]

Aarow,

There should be a lot more choices.  Like you said:

3)  I could care less.
4) Why should I care?
5) I make fake things too, so do I need to reply to this survey!   

You can put me in the 4 camp...Just ordered a few things from ECS. They do fantastic work. As far as this build sheet stuff, being there are people that can counterfeit things a lot more complicated than a build sheet I'd guess that ECS probably is the least of anyone's worries as they no longer even do them. My build sheet's out of my Charger and Cuda are both in fairly good shape and were found under the rear seat. I have made multiple copies of both of them and scanned them onto a computer all with a fairly cheap Dell printer/scanner. If I was to age the paper the copies would pass as the originals. If I can do that with my limited computer abilities I'm fairly sure some 16 year old computer geek could probably produce a credible build sheet in the time it would take him/her to write the ACT.

[69CoronetRT]

706pkvert,

Why stop there?  Why not expand it to include a list of "fake" window stickers (which were also supposed to be thrown away) and also make a list of "fake" fender tags?  Lets face it, Im sure that there are plenty of people, which Im sure you are aware of, who will fall into either one or both of those categories.

Here's a 'be careful of what you wish for' and the the slippery slope.

Why not include a list of all cars that have fake stripes and badging?
Fake clones?
Fake "Tributes"?
Fake 'cars that never existed'?
Fake repo parts that have been installed on cars like torque boxes or dead on reproducitons?

I find the whole fake tag and BS issue abhorrent but be consistent in your standards.

If you make providers of legal products held to a standard, because of something someone MIGHT or MAY do with the product or how it MAY be percieved, then be consistent in your applications.

If it's wrong for one to do somethinig that MIGHT or MAY lead to deception or consequences, then apply the standard to all, not just some.

Somone MIGHT or MAY present a car with a wrong stripe as a car that should have it. Therefore, you must ban incorrect striping or badging.
Somone MIGHT or MAY pass off a clone as something it is not, therefore you must prohibit and register clones.

See how ludicris it gets?

Slippery slope folks....

[Patronus]

yawn

[AKcharger]

I actaully think the bulid sheet thing is a lot like the  great White Fleet of the early 20th century if you really think about it

The Great White Fleet was the popular nickname for the United States Navy battle fleet that completed a circumnavigation of the globe from 16 December 1907 to 22 February 1909 by order of U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt.

It consisted of 16 battleships divided into two squadrons, along with various escorts. Roosevelt sought to demonstrate growing American military power and blue-water navy capability. Hoping to enforce treaties and protect overseas holdings, the U.S. Congress appropriated funds to build American sea power. Beginning with just 90 small ships, over one-third of them wooden, the navy quickly grew to include new modern steel fighting vessels. The hulls of these ships were painted a stark white, giving the armada the nickname "Great White Fleet".

In the twilight of United States President Theodore Roosevelt's administration, Roosevelt dispatched sixteen U.S. Navy battleships of the Atlantic Fleet on a worldwide voyage of circumnavigation from 16 December 1907 to 22 February 1909. The hulls were painted white, the Navy's peacetime color scheme, decorated with gilded scrollwork with a red, white, and blue banner on their bows. These ships would later come to be known as the Great White Fleet.

The purpose of the fleet deployment was multifaceted. Ostensibly, it served as a showpiece of American goodwill as the fleet visited numerous countries and harbors. In this, the voyage was not unprecedented. Naval courtesy calls, many times in conjunction with the birthdays of various monarchs and other foreign celebrations, had become common in the 19th century. They became increasingly important with the rise of nationalism. In 1891, a large French fleet visited Kronstadt, Russia in conjunction with negotiations between the two nations. Although France and Russia had been hostile to each other for at least three decades prior, the significance of the call was not lost on Russia, and Tsar Nicholas II signed a treaty of alliance with France in 1894. As navies grew larger, naval pageants grew longer, more elaborate and more frequent. The United States began participating in these events in 1902 when Roosevelt invited Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany to send a squadron for a courtesy call to New York City. Invitations for US Navy ships to participate in fleet celebrations in England, France and Germany followed.

Additionally, the voyage of the Great White Fleet demonstrated both at home and on the world stage that the US had become a major sea power in the years after its triumph in the Spanish-American War, with possessions that included Guam, the Philippines, and Puerto Rico. It was not the first flexing of US naval muscle since that war, however; during the Algeciras Conference in 1906, which was convened to settle a diplomatic crisis between France and Germany over the fate of Morocco, Roosevelt had ordered eight battleships to maintain a presence in the Mediterranean Sea. The Great White Fleet showed that, without having to fire a shot, the US Navy could take control of the seas with an overwhelming display of naval might, and it demonstrated the practical import of Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan's theories on the use of sea power to project global power. Since Japan had arisen as a major sea power with the 1905 annihilation of the Russian fleet at Tsushima, the deployment of the Great White Fleet was therefore intended, at least in part, to send a message to Tokyo that the American fleet could be deployed anywhere, even from its Atlantic ports, and would be able to defend American interests in the Philippines and the Pacific. This gesture capitalized on a war scare that had resulted from anti-Japanese riots in San Francisco. Roosevelt saw the deployment of the fleet as one that would take the American public's mind off an economic depression that had begun in 1907, encourage patriotism and give the impression that he would teach Japan "a lesson in polite behavior," as historian Robert A. Hart phrased it. Roosevelt did so on the assurance from financial experts that Japan had been drained from the Russo-Japanese War and would not be ready for another conflict for at least a decade. After the fleet had crossed the Pacific, Japanese statesmen realized that the balance of power in the East had changed since the Root–Takahira Agreement that defined relevant spheres of interest of the United States and Japan.

The voyage also provided an opportunity to improve the sea- and battle-worthiness of the fleet. While earlier capital ship classes such as the Kearsarge, Illinois and Maine were designed primarily for coastal defense, later classes such as the Virginia and Connecticut incorporated lessons learned from the Spanish-American War and were conceived as ships with "the highest practicable speed and the greatest radius of action," in the words of the appropriation bills approved by the United States Congress for their construction. They were intended as modern warships capable of long-range operations. Nevertheless, the experience gained in the recent war with Spain had been limited.
 
Roosevelt's stated intent was to give the navy practice in navigation, communication, coal consumption and fleet maneuvering; navy professionals maintained, however, that such matters could be served better in home waters. In light of what had happened to the Russian Baltic Fleet, they were concerned about sending their own fleet on a long deployment, especially since part of the intent was to impress a modern, battle-tested navy that had not known defeat. The fleet was untested in making such a voyage, and Tsushima had proven that extended deployments had no place in practical strategy. The Japanese navy was close to coaling and repair facilities; while American ships could coal in the Philippines, docking facilities were far from optimal. An extended stop on the West Coast of the United States during the voyage for overhaul and refurbishment in dry dock would be a necessity. Planning for the voyage, however, showed a dearth of adequate facilities there, as well. The main sea channel of the Mare Island Navy Yard near San Francisco was too shallow for battleships, which left only the Puget Sound Navy Yard in Bremerton, Washington for refit and repair. The Hunter's Point civilian yard in San Francisco could accommodate capital ships but had been closed due to lack of use and was slated for demolition. President Roosevelt ordered that Hunter's Point be reopened, facilities be brought up to date and the fleet to report there.[

There was also the question of adequate resources for coaling. This was not an issue when the Atlantic Fleet cruised the Atlantic or Caribbean, as fuel supplies were readily available. However, the United States did not enjoy a worldwide network of coaling stations like that of Great Britain, nor did it have an adequate supply of auxiliary vessels for resupply. During the Spanish-American War, this lack had forced Admiral George Dewey to buy a collier-load of British coal in Hong Kong before the Battle of Manila Bay to ensure his squadron would not be stranded at sea. The need had been even more pressing for the Russian Baltic Fleet during its long deployment during the Russo-Japanese War, not just for the distance it was to sail but also because, as a belligerent nation in wartime, most neutral ports were closed to it due to international law. While the lack of support vessels was pointed out and a vigorous program of building such ships suggested by Rear Admiral George W. Melville, who had served as chief of the Bureau of Equipment, his words were not heeded adequately until World War II.

What...you read this far? Really???

[472 R/T SE]

You got me.  I made it through to the 2nd paragraph, jumped to the end of the 3rd & 4th before you started repeating yourself.  Getting into the 3rd paragraph I started wondering WTH kind of shit are they growing in Alaska to have you this buzzed before noon.  Also began to wonder how I could talk you into sending me some w/o the postal service smelling it. 

Oh yeah, you were the one with the decade old "save the chicken" signature.

Time to skip to the last sentence.  What a goober.  

[AKcharger]

You got me.  I made it through to the 2nd paragraph, jumped to the end of the 3rd & 4th before you started repeating yourself.  Getting into the 3rd paragraph I started wondering WTH kind of shit are they growing in Alaska to have you this buzzed before noon.  Also began to wonder how I could talk you into sending me some w/o the postal service smelling it. 

Oh yeah, you were the one with the decade old "save the chicken" signature.

Time to skip to the last sentence.  What a goober.  

[resq302]

well that was a waste of 5 mins of my time that I'll never get back!   

[AKcharger]

well that was a waste of 5 mins of my time that I'll never get back!   

Well not really, you learned an important piece of Geo-politial military history...you'll be thanking ol' AKcharger during your next trivial pursuit game  mark my words! 

[resq302]

well that was a waste of 5 mins of my time that I'll never get back!   

Well not really, you learned an important piece of Geo-politial military history...you'll be thanking ol' AKcharger during your next trivial pursuit game  mark my words! 

Ok, I'll make you a deal.  IF I get a question like that when I play Triaval Pursuit (which I haven't played in probably a good 15-20 years!) I will publically come on here and kneel down and give you proper due credit!   (I still wouldn't hold my breath about me playing though)

[Tilar]

Well, Mine came out from under the rear seat as part of a mouse nest. Not many pieces bigger than a cigarette. Personally I'd spend a few bucks to get a repro just to say I at least had a copy of it. Since it's a 318 with a 3speed on the column, The 440 4speed that's going into it would easily be noticed.

[Patronus]

In the end, all numbers n letters aside, it's still a Charger..wether it has all it's teeth or not.

[AKcharger]

Ok, I'll make you a deal.  IF I get a question like that when I play Triaval Pursuit (which I haven't played in probably a good 15-20 years!) I will publically come on here and kneel down and give you proper due credit!   (I still wouldn't hold my breath about me playing though)

Well OK, but we need to count Scattagories® in there too...never know when you may play that one.

[polywideblock]

In the end, all numbers n letters aside, it's still a Charger..wether it has all it's teeth or not.

 

[resq302]

Ok, I'll make you a deal.  IF I get a question like that when I play Triaval Pursuit (which I haven't played in probably a good 15-20 years!) I will publically come on here and kneel down and give you proper due credit!   (I still wouldn't hold my breath about me playing though)

Well OK, but we need to count Scattagories® in there too...never know when you may play that one.

Agreed!   

[richRTSE]

For the record, Dave made a couple of extra copies of my Daytona's Broadcast Sheet for display purposes - but I still have my original and can prove it.

Dave, what is preventing you from posting the list?

Here you go Mike.  I'll play your little game.  The complete list consists of:

*Mike Mancini
*Tony D'Agostino

[F8-4life]

In a sence the hobby is dulluting itself in a effort to survive, as the years continue to pass it will just accelerate with the combination of old/correct knowledge disipearing into history. 4 pages of thread I dont want to read...but anyway if anybody cares about fake build sheets, that invested interest/concern is gonna fade off. Hell, in 15-20 years we'll probably be lucky to just be drivin a muscle car. SHEET or no sheet or fake sheet or maybe even with some good imagination skills your long gone sheet will effectivily be right under your shotgun bucket!

[AKcharger]

[resq302]

Thats just wrong..... funny as hell.. .. but wrong.   

[71ChallengeHer]

3 threads on this site. With nothing but a bunch of whining girls .    Best post on all 3 threads by AKcharger. At least I actually learned something.         And I do have my build sheet to my lowly 318 Challenger. Which means nothing to anyone but me.  .  

[ECS]

3 threads on this site. With nothing but a much of whining girls.   

But you need to ask what's funnier......the "whining girls" in the 3 threads or the ones who take the time to count, follow and comment about them? 

[A383Wing]

I learned not to microwave a smiley face.....everything else in this thread, well.... 

Bryan

[71ChallengeHer]

3 threads on this site. With nothing but a much of whining girls.   

But you need to ask what's funnier......the "whining girls" in the 3 threads or the ones who take the time to count, follow and comment about them? 

. I have been a member of this site a helluva lot longer then you. I can read and comment on anything I damn well please. And you sir are a bully.     

[A383Wing]

"She" has spoken....are we done here now?