ECS REPRODUCTION BUILD SHEET LIST

[hemigeno]

This whole thread is a "straw man" argument, and is moot anyway since they are no longer being produced and haven't been for some time now.  Old news.

For the record, Dave made a couple of extra copies of my Daytona's Broadcast Sheet for display purposes - but I still have my original and can prove it.  I've never artificially aged any of them or even added any crayon markings, since it was never my intention to deceive anyone with such a document.  It's just cool to have a clean copy.

[resq302]

Gene,

How DARE you have a FAKE and A REAL build sheet!   

[706pkvert]

There are 2 talking points here....

1) The sheets that have already been made..Just because they are stated to be "no longer avail" does not change the fact that there were sheets made. Those sheets should be accounted for so there is no possibilty of fraud in the future.
2) If the sheets were tracked, or watermarked in the future, ECS could offer them in their product line with no risk.

[resq302]

706pkvert,

Since you seem to have all the answers, and since ECS will no longer be making them, why not you take over the project and make them?  Only seems fitting since you have all these ideas and suggestions?

[ECS]

....and the fraud they are possible of breeding.

Speaking from your own actions of course..........

[706pkvert]

Dave, what is preventing you from posting the list?

[Mytur Binsdirti]

This, and the other thread in the Daytona sectionremind me of this....

[RJS]

There are 2 talking points here....

1) The sheets that have already been made..Just because they are stated to be "no longer avail" does not change the fact that there were sheets made. Those sheets should be accounted for so there is no possibilty of fraud in the future.
2) If the sheets were tracked, or watermarked in the future, ECS could offer them in their product line with no risk.

HMMM  has anyone contacted Darryl??
He made a ton of fake sheets from what I read on the web boards over the past few years...

[ECS]

Dave, what is preventing you from posting the list?

Here you go Mike.  I'll play your little game.  The complete list consists of:

*Mike Mancini
*Tony D'Agostino

[polywideblock]

am i missing something here, they are no longer made period! why has everybody got their panties in a bunch because this guy wont tell you who else he made them for.seems that some folks have appointed themselves the MOPAR fraud squad.just let it go

[472 R/T SE]

A fight I'd love to see that will never happen due to size/class is GSP & "Bones" Jones.

George dominated the fight.  My favorite is Chael.  He is one of the best greco-wrestling athletes I have seen.  Probably the most intelligent of all the UFC athletes even though most don't understand that his smack talk is just a front to marketing his image.  I like the past guys who have already retired. (Shamrock, Coleman, Frye, Liddell, Couture)  When Sonnen is gone, I don't think I'll be so interested in the competition unless another "flamboyant" quality athlete takes center stage.  

Nothing better than a Chael interview after he's won a fight.  Sometimes I think he abuses his new commentator ship on the show when he attacks Bones but Dana knew what he was getting.

I became a Bones fan when one of his last fights his opponent had his arm out flat (forget the name of the move) bent over backwards while he was standing & it didn't break & he never tapped getting out of it.  Talk about flexibility.  From what I've seen is he's quite humble as well.
I think the Diaz brothers add some flavor during their matches when they give the middle finger or slap their opponent attempting to get under their skin.  At the end of the last round, the DBs' usually always show respect by helping their opponent off the matt or some other form.

The Silva-Chael post fight Silva interview was an instant classic when Silva invited Sonnen over for BBQ.

I like Benson too if anything for his family's humble beginnings. 
Like watching Hendo too, if you keep him off the matt he's an animal going toe to toe.



Dave, aren't you a higher belt artist?

I was only in Tae Kwon Do for about a year.  Funny, in class none of the higher belt members' wanted to spar guys' like me since we weren't very accurate.   I used to love it, great discipline.  Our daughter used to want to train but now doesn't & I wish she would.  Oh well, as it is soccer is 11 months of the year.

[AKcharger]

[706pkvert]

Why don't you get serious and post the real list Dave.....

Gene Lewis amonst many others would be on the list... You seek the "truth" but yet you bold face lie about who you have made sheets for.....

[resq302]

706pkvert,

Why stop there?  Why not expand it to include a list of "fake" window stickers (which were also supposed to be thrown away) and also make a list of "fake" fender tags?  Lets face it, Im sure that there are plenty of people, which Im sure you are aware of, who will fall into either one or both of those categories.

[hemi68charger]

Why don't you get serious and post the real list Dave.....

Gene Lewis amonst many others would be on the list... You seek the "truth" but yet you bold face lie about who you have made sheets for.....

And your point is? If someone has stated this or that particular sheet isn't original or is a copy, where's the problem? Should Galen and/or trimtags.com publish a complete list of fender tags ever reproduced? I don't get it......... What Dave has done in his business to reproduce sheets as close as possible is short of genius. Sorry Dave, can't put you on the same stool as Albert Einstein or Steven Hawkins........ The problem comes with integrity of the people purchasing a product and representing it in a false manner.

The facts I've seen within these threads are sections of magazine articles on the white Daytona that stipulates there was nearly no rust damage. But pictures, and I'm assuming they are of the white Daytona, reflect a LOT of rot. The magazines got their information from someone...

[resq302]

Thats just the problem.  A lot of people (mostly unknowing people) believe what they read in a premier magazine which gives a spot light on certain cars.  This spot light now gives said car(s) a perception of what actually went on with the car.  For example, the white daytona was allegedly said to have "No rust what so ever".  It HAS been proven that it absolutely had rot holes in the floor, yet then the story changed to the vehicle had no rust or rot on the body.  Somehow, this person now claims that the floor is no longer part of the body where as Chrysler incorporated the floor as part of the UNIBODY.  A significant structural part of the body!

Maybe magazine editors should go back and post a list of what cars they have published fabricated articles about also?

[hemi68charger]

Thats just the problem.  A lot of people (mostly unknowing people) believe what they read in a premier magazine which gives a spot light on certain cars.  This spot light now gives said car(s) a perception of what actually went on with the car.  For example, the white daytona was allegedly said to have "No rust what so ever".  It HAS been proven that it absolutely had rot holes in the floor, yet then the story changed to the vehicle had no rust or rot on the body.  Somehow, this person now claims that the floor is no longer part of the body where as Chrysler incorporated the floor as part of the UNIBODY.  A significant structural part of the body!

Maybe magazine editors should go back and post a list of what cars they have published fabricated articles about also?

Very insightful...........   

[ECS]

Nothing better than a Chael interview after he's won a fight.  Sometimes I think he abuses his new commentator ship on the show when he attacks Bones but Dana knew what he was getting........I like Benson too if anything for his family's humble beginnings.......Like watching Hendo too, if you keep him off the matt he's an animal going toe to toe.
Dave, aren't you a higher belt artist?
I was only in Tae Kwon Do for about a year.  Funny, in class none of the higher belt members' wanted to spar guys' like me since we weren't very accurate.   I used to love it, great discipline.  Our daughter used to want to train but now doesn't & I wish she would.  Oh well, as it is soccer is 11 months of the year.

Good points about some great guys!  I just turned 52 and still train almost everyday.  I feel like I could still compete but that's just the crazy (ego) part of me talking.  1986 was the last year that I was involved with any type of competition.  I use to teach Boxing at a small Gym in Cape Girardeau back then.  My Friend (Donnie Rugraff) was an awesome wrestler and we would go to the "Tuff Man" competition in Kentucky.  He was in the 198lb. class and I was in the 181lb. class.  We also use to train with Gary Thomas who was a second alternate for Greco Roman Wrestling at the Pan Am Games.  I would love to have competed in a Strike Force event.  It wasn't around back then.  I've traded a few "practice" shots with a young guy who use to date one of my Neighbor's Daughters named Kirk Huff.  I wanted to pay him to start training with my Son and I but he is currently working with an up & comer named Matt Ricehouse.  To bad you can't turn back the hands of time.

[resq302]

52!  You old fart!  Here I thought you were a youngster with tackling all those insane, crappy restorations that you and your team have done!   

[moparstuart]

Why don't you get serious and post the real list Dave.....

Gene Lewis amonst many others would be on the list... You seek the "truth" but yet you bold face lie about who you have made sheets for.....

And your point is? If someone has stated this or that particular sheet isn't original or is a copy, where's the problem? Should Galen and/or trimtags.com publish a complete list of fender tags ever reproduced? I don't get it......... What Dave has done in his business to reproduce sheets as close as possible is short of genius. Sorry Dave, can't put you on the same stool as Albert Einstein or Steven Hawkins........ The problem comes with integrity of the people purchasing a product and representing it in a false manner.

The facts I've seen within these threads are sections of magazine articles on the white Daytona that stipulates there was nearly no rust damage. But pictures, and I'm assuming they are of the white Daytona, reflect a LOT of rot. The magazines got their information from someone...

i have seen alot of rusty mopars and I seriously doubt that car only had rust in the rear floors 

[Old Moparz]

I saw the Daytona thread & all the accusations, so I can understand why this thread was created. I know some of the people involved personally & I am a firm believer in the old saying, "Where there is smoke, there is fire." I'm not going to vote or comment on individuals, their services or their car on a public forum, because I was never burned by anyone personally. I do know several people who were less than happy about the outcome of a misrepresented sale, so I do want to comment on the issue in general.

Years ago I found the deciphering of buildsheets & fender tags to be interesting, but never held any value to them personally. That doesn't mean I am dismissing them, or that someone else who cherishes having one is making a mistake, but to me it's just a novelty item to go with the vehicle. Having said that, I have a few for my cars & saved them as well as having found a few others that I advertised for free if the owner can prove it was theirs. The rarest buildsheet I found is for a 1968 Coronet R/T convertible that I still have.

The problem with reproduction buildsheets, fender & VIN tags, is that it allows the dishonest people that exist already, to go down an even easier path to deceive others for financial gain. It's no different than most arguments like guns, drugs or drunk driving, which are fine until they are abused. Just because a magazine prints info on a car doesn't mean it's true. We see that on many occasions with many different magazines. I guess we need to treat them as a novelty item as well.

If some people weren't so hung up on material possessions, or have the desire to chase down the rarest, the biggest, the fastest, or the most expensive thing they can find for bragging rights, threads like this wouldn't exist. To be honest, I'd love to have a real wing car or something with a Hemi. Even finding ANY car that was a rust free survivor would be even better, but the hobby has changed & greed ruined a good part of it.

Too bad humans are human. 

[472 R/T SE]

  To bad you can't turn back the hands of time.

I have but one request:  

November 28, 2003 @ 1pm, day after Thanksgiving

[moparstuart]

  To bad you can't turn back the hands of time.

I have but one request:  

November 28, 2003 @ 1pm, day after Thanksgiving

[71ChallengeHer]

  To bad you can't turn back the hands of time.

I have but one request:  

November 28, 2003 @ 1pm, day after Thanksgiving

Me too, Mike. Nov 5, 1978 and Jan 29, 1986  

[arrow]

  706pkvert , there should be a third choice on your poll -- "3 = its hard to give a care