About ready to pull engine/transmission assembly-Question

[john108]

Hi
I believe I am about ready to pull the engine/transmission assembly !, But.
What provisions do I need to make to put the engine assy down. 
I do have a flat movers dolly, with wheels.  How do you handle this mass.
I would like not to dent or damage anything.
I will need to move it.  It appears to be clumsy.
It may be obvious to the most casual observer, but I haven't been an observer yet!
Thank you for your comments.
John

[john108]

Another question:
The 2 pictures show the hoist in place.
To be able to clear the front of the car:
1-Should I shorten the chain from the hoist to the load leveler?
2-Should I shorten the 4 chains from the load leveler to the engine?
3- I could extend the length of the hoist to the 1/2 ton position which will provide additional lifting height.

I expect that a whole bunch of our members have learned how to do it, the best way, after a few tries.

I do have a concern that the load leveler could bump into the components on the firewall.

[b5blue]

I'd pull the carb. and shorten everything as low as possible. Remove anything you can like water pump and housing, Alt. and brackets, anything and everything. Get under the car and lower the front end buy backing off the adjusters, you want the nose low as possible. That's a lot of weight to have dangling off the hoist so be certain you have flat rolling surface and have blocks of wood ready to support the whole mess so you don't crush the pans.  

[Brightyellow69rtse]

definalty shorten everything up as stated above. i did it without a load leveler. it was awkward but it came out ok. a second person was definatly needed to keep the tranny from smacking into everything on the way out.  take your time and keep looking at your clearances and youll be fine.

[b5blue]

Also drain all oils/fluids, remove exhaust manifolds to save weight. 

[ACUDANUT]

That set up looks like a nightmare. The Chain should be short at the front of engine and long at the back, if your pulling the trans out at the same time. 2 People are a big plus.

[john108]

I will shorten all the chains.

Many members have had their engines dynoed and I don't expect that they removed the carb to install. 
They may not have had the trans attached at the time??

ACUDANUT: With the load levelor, do you still think the chains should have different lengths??

I am not sure what to expect.  One comment that I have seen stated raise the front of the car so the transmission can rotate down.  Another stated lower the front end.  Is it possible that both have to be done in sequence?? 

I am hoping that the hoist can lift high enough for the assy to clear the front of the body. 
I have the hoist set to the 1 ton length. 
If I were to extend it to the 1/2 ton(1000 pounds) setting, that would allow additional lifting height. 
I am not sure if that is acceptable.

[b5blue]

Honestly I have never pulled/installed the engine AND tranny at the same time on my 70 Charger. That 440 is pretty hairy all by itself hanging up there! (As usual I'm alone with no backup.) Going in I installed the short block, then installed the iron heads, six pack exhaust manifolds. (Again solo.) The factory came in from under mounted on the K frame. 

[john108]

OK - I removed the Carb.
I shortened all chains.
The hoist is still set to the 1 ton length.
The pictures show the chains under tension.

I think that after the engine clears the motor mounts,
it can be pulled it forward as it is rotated with the load leveler.

I hope that with lifting and rotating, it will clear the frame where the radiator was.
Do you believe it will clear or should I increase the length of the hoist arm to the 1/2 ton position, which will provide additional height   I am not sure this is wise.

[469 runner]

Honestly I've never removed an engine and trans. together, seems too clumsy, but I think you would have an easier time if you extended the boom on the hoist as far out as possible.  You are going to need all the height you can get as the transmission rotates down to clear the firewall.  Good Luck.

[ACUDANUT]

hmmm

[ACUDANUT]

Read this. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,99514.msg1164173.html#msg1164173

[chargersb71]

Most definitely I would shorten those chains like you have done.  Have the front as low as you can get it and there shouldn't be a problem.   Oh and get some help if you can.  I do a lot by myself but would love to have some help a lot of times.  As far as something to put the engine assembly on I would get an engine stand and old tire works in a pinch.  The load leveler is a big help.  You want to be able to raise that engine and trans. as high as you can to clear your vehicle.  Good luck if I was closer would be more than happy to help also would loan you an engine stand.

[john108]

I have read other posts and have some concerns:

I know that we want the car front low to be able to lift the engine-transmission assembly high enough over it.
Another post stated to raise the front of the car about a foot so that the transmission tail-shaft will clear the ground as the assembly is rotated.  I am a little confused on what to expect.

If I lengthened the arm on the hoist to the 1000 lb (1/2 ton) position, is there a safety issue with weight???  This is a Harbor Freight Hoist.  I don't know the combined weight of the assembly I am removing?

I have the car raised (jack stands, under frame, behind front wheels) now so I can remove the transmission cross-brace and motor mount bolts.  The front tires are hanging about 6 inches off the ground.  All bolts/nuts arel loosened but still in place until the last few minutes.  I may have to consider lowering the car after the transmission clears the ground??  Has anybody performed this maneuver??

[NHCharger]

I just yanked the motor and tranny (440/727A)out of my 68 Charger last month. I would not lengthen the arm to 1,000 lbs. I did remove the headers but only because they were junk and I'm not reusing them. Yes this is a two person job. Do a test run first. Lift the motor up about 6", you will get an idea from that on what might be in the way. I had a floor jack on each side under the frame. Once I got the motor raised up and made sure I was clearing everything in the engine bay we lowered the jacks all the way down and removed the engine. I had even let the air out of the front tires to drop the front end as low as it could go but ended up setting the K frame on top of the legs of the hoist

[darkside]

I jacked my motor and trans up high and just pushed the car out of the way.Sucks not having a concrete slab.
http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0016/76/23/16146732_large.jpg

[469 runner]

Just to save all the insecurity in this, why not just separate the engine from the trans before pulling the engine, or unbolt K-member and raise car off.  You could have had the engine out days ago.  Don't worry, be happy.

[jlatessa]

Raise the rear of the car as high as you can on jack stands,,
that will give you both additional clearance for the tail shaft and lower the
front a few inches for removal clearance.  

Go SLOWLY and you'll be OK.

Joe

[ACUDANUT]

Just to save all the insecurity in this, why not just separate the engine from the trans before pulling the engine, or unbolt K-member and raise car off.  You could have had the engine out days ago.  Don't worry, be happy.

Oh boy, do we have some bad advise here.  How many of these jobs have you done 469 runner. ? none.

[469 runner]

Well, not to get into a pissing match here...But you shouldn't comment about people you don't know.  And..I've done plenty.  This is the way these drivetrains were installed at the factory, from below, definetely the easiest way.    

[john108]

There  are quite a bit of good recommendations here.  I thank all of you.
I will be trying to combine options from the comments/help provided here.

I will first go find a tire to rest the assembly on.
I pumped the un-weighted hoist up to maximum and there may be enough height available.
But, will be prepared to adjust for the un-expected. 
After all mounting bolts are removed, I will see how the assy hangs and see how it lifts and tilts.
I will lower the car off the jack stands as soon as possible.
I will be prepared to let the air out of the front tires and consider putting the jack stands near the rear tires.
We will see what is needed and what happens.
I will probably get to it next weekend as help is not always easy to find.
Thank you all, again.  -John

[Cooter]

I see a potential prroblem with those long bolts at the end of the chains. You need to have the chain bolted next to intake. I see some bent/broken bolts....Would SUCK to get that thing almost out and a bolt breaks CRUSHING your rad. support. (Yes, don't ask me how I know )

As stated, I've installed/removed engines such as your set up the way you are going and it isn't easy, or time saving, but it can be done.

Take your time and you really should get at least ONE mroe person to help guide the trans around and out of the engine bay before it ends up through your windshield.

[mopar0166]

About to pull a 318/904 out  , good read

what are good lift point for the chain?  thats the only thing im confused about? 

[maxwellwedge]

Adjust the chain so the whole thing has a downward tilt towards the trans end. Keep the bolts short like Cooter said......grab a buddy or two to make sure the engine isn't smashing the firewall etc. and to make sure the hoist doesn't tip over. Then crank and yank. Done tons this way.

[john108]

Cooter:  I went with the longer bolts because earlier suggestions stated to use bolts 2 inches longer than I took out (1.5 inch).  I will go and get 2 inch long bolts, to account for the chain thickness.  Note: I did have a concern that the long bolts would bend.
The windshield has been removed.

maxwellwedge: I thought that the load leveler would allow me to adjust the tilt once the assembly is lifted out of the motor mounts??  Lift, pull forward, then tilt.  If I don't see something, PLEASE correct my thinking.

mopar0166: I don't know anything about a 318, but I have my 4 bolts going through the 4 corners of the intake manifold into the HEADS. 

[mopar0166]

ok i was going to bolt chain to the front of the heads and use the the two rear upper trans mounting  bolts on the engien block to lift it

[john108]

Until someone who knows better, your approach may be better.  You want the bolts into solid material.

[Dmichels]

John I just put my 440 and 4 speed in my car as a unit. I did it with the car sitting on its 4 tires. I had to angle it alot to get it to clear everything. It was pretty hairy as things were pretty high up. You are probally looking at 600 to 700 lbs. You DEFINATLY want an extra hand to help you. You need to lift angle lift angle ect. The extra hands can tell you how you are going and help stabilise things. You can pull and install an engine by itself, but with a trans attached you need help.
Check list
1 get a friend to help
2 you want the chains bolted tight to the block
3 use 2 washers if there is any chance of the chains pulling threw the bolts
4 measure from the oil pan to the hoist make sure you have enough lift to clear things. Compair that to the total lift of the hoist.
Its not that bad just plan ahead
Dave

[ACUDANUT]

Now that's good advice. 

[Dmichels]

Oh yeah I forgot
5 Drain everything. Otherwise it WILL drain out in your driveway and all over everything. try to pull the collant drain plugs on either side of the motor
6 Also take the  time to pull off anything that you think will get broken off or get in the way. You do not want to find out that you have smashed or about to brake something when it is 4 feet in the air.

[Brightyellow69rtse]

i used the harbor freight hoist too. i actually think i did it on the 1/2 ton hole. i cant be sure its been a while. ive slung flipped and spund around some awkward extremly heavy things at my previous job on a regulat basis. you just kinda get a feel for how its gonna go after a while.  i didnt do anything weird like put it on stands or anything. if you need a few extra inches over the rad support you can just let the air out of the tires. 

its not difficult just take your timewith a buddy and youll be ok. 

[john108]

One more dumb question, I hope.

Presently, I have jack stands under the frame behind the front wheels - because of other recommendations.
I also needed the room there to cut out the exhaust pipes/mufflers and do all the other disconnecting.

If I removed those jack stands, will the transmission have enough room not to drag on the ground when the assembly is rotated?  I can remove the jack stands later, after I see how it is going???

[ACUDANUT]

 You need to keep them there to give the tranny room to drop.

[mopar0166]

im pulling my 318 out tonight, ill let you knwo how it goes

[69_XS29L]

You are only addressing this from one point of view, taking the engine out. I'm guessing you will be restoring this car. I was lucky enough to have a stout GluLam beam in the ceiling of my garage to lift from. I rigged up a hoist from the beam bolted to the bumper supports of my stripped down 69, welded up a dolly to put under the K member and tranny and tilted the car up off the whole mess, end of problem. No having to buy an engine lift, no swinging loads in the air on Chinese lifts made w/ 1/8" walled tube, and it is easily a one man job for sure. A person could then stuff the engine back in ( alone ) without worrying about freshly painted inner fenders, core support, firewall, etc. Doesn't look like you have anything overhead to easily lift from. Having said that I did build a lift to pull the V-10 from my 3/4 ton Ram, and the other trucks I work on, 4x4s are different.
Look at your lift, you are past the halfway point of your ram extension. You'll need to pull the jack stands to get everything to clear for sure.
The guys that tell you to lengthen the back chain are stuck using a single chain to pull an engine. The point of buying your leveler is to be able to change the angle of the engine while you are pulling it. Look up the Oberg tilt sling sometime, it is the shit for quickly changing the angle while pulling engines.
Use Grade 8 bolts long enough to seat fully in the head, w/out a lot of extra length, and like the man said use a washer if bolting through chain.
Pull the water pump and crank pulley, it'll give you more room to come forward and lift up before you need to tilt the tranny to clear the firewall and save a few pounds of weight. A fully dressed 440 with a 727 bolted to it has to be all of 700 lb. Remember what is tilted must be untilted to clear core support.
Pull the pipe plugs in the side of the block or knock out freeze plugs, drain the block. Crack the tranny pan and drain it, but remember as soon as you put any angle to the engine, the 727 tailshaft will start draining. NAPA used to sell a plug for this.
These old cars are stone axe simple, pulling the engine/tranny is kinderspielen. Take it easy, relax, and if anything hangs on the way out, check it out before yanking on it anymore. Good luck, Mike.

[john108]

Thanks for a ton of good advice.
I pulled the assembly yesterday and because of the advice I received here, I anticipated most of the issues.
I should have removed the crank pulleys and water-pump as it would have provided additional needed room!
It barely fit!
The load leveler was extreamly hard to turn (both tilting and un-tilting).
When the hoist was raised most of what I needed, I couldn't turn the load-leveler crank because the arm was in the way.
I am thinking it may be better if the crank pointed toward the firewall, but that may result in access problems??
I had to remove the jack stands I had under the frame as the hoist couldn't go high enough.
I also could have let air out of the front tires, as suggested, but I was able to lift up on the tailshaft by hand, just enough to clear.
AND WE WERE OUT!!!
Thank you all again.  I couldn't have done it without your help.  --  I will have more tasks in the near future.
John

[Lighthorseman]

If I may stick my nose in here - I am also coming close to time to remove the 383 / 727 combo from my '70 Satellite.  I would be doing things the same way as John - using a hoist and pulling the engine up and out.

Am I better off to remove both engine and transmission as one piece, or would unbolting the transmission ease getting the engine out? 

Thanks!
- Steve -

[JB400]

In my opinion, it's easier to pull/ insert the motor without the auto attached.  Manual trans are just the opposite; I'd prefer them to go in together as a unit to ease in lining up the clutch and trans.

[Lighthorseman]

In my opinion, it's easier to pull/ insert the motor without the auto attached.  Manual trans are just the opposite; I'd prefer them to go in together as a unit to ease in lining up the clutch and trans.

Thanks, Stroker!  I hope to have a 727 coming out and an 833 going back in.