440 just won't start

[66fury]

just finished putting a 440 from a motorhome in my 74 charger, rolls over fine, but i just cannot get this motor to start. i have set the timing and  plug  #1 is firing at the timing mark, checked for TDC all checks out. have a new 650 eddybrock which is shooting gas in just fine. i have ohm tested the balast resistor, the distributor, checked for spark at coil and plugs all testing fine. when i role the engine it fires a couple of cylinders and thats it! I had a friend who builds engines freshen this 440, new rod bearings, mains, rings .30 over for a few extra ponies, cleaned up the valves and polished the heads nothing real drastic. but now we just cannot get it to start. any ideas from the site gurus...... maybe we missed something?

[ACUDANUT]

For the time being, Pull plug #1 and when you feel it push air out, reset the plugs in the right order on the dist. Starting with cylinder #1. Try that and report back.

[66fury]

tried that numerous times even thought we might have been 180 out but that didn't help any, does anyone know if ECU's can cause weak spark, i know they can fail outright but can they just be weak and how could i test it??

[ACUDANUT]

 Bad ECU just stop working and have no spark comming out of the dist. 

[66fury]

thats what we wthought but wasn't sure, heck we even thought we had bad plugs changed them, changed oil thinking we maybe had gas in oil, never had this kind of trouble with an engine!

[ACUDANUT]

Bad ECU just stop working and have no spark comming out of the

coil

[ACUDANUT]

I meant coil. Not dist.

[bobs66440]

Try a new coil and ECU.

I've had mine quit running twice. First time was the coil. Second time was the ECU. It won't be a wasted purchase. They all go bad eventually...

[Cooter]

Fuel


Air


Fire...

Without ANY of the three, it won't run.

[ACUDANUT]

Cooter, I think air is a gimmie, Otherwise we would not be here.
You just need Fuel and spark.

[Mopar Nut]

Bad wires?

[66fury]

had new wires and coil from the start. well after a day at making a living i'll head back in the garage and try all over again this evening i'll keep u up dated!

[Cooter]

You never mentioned whether or not you were running a factory MOPAR Electronic module. If so, there's a VERY good place to start.

[66fury]

tried changing module no difference.... . but heres what i have learned from another mopar guy, the lifters my engine guy used where comp cam 822-16 440 hydraulic...... which are slightly longer and according to this guy (he had same problem) i need a shorter push rod  which these guys make for use with their lifters. kinda pisses me off now i gotta order their push rods..... anyone ever heard of this??

[brumono]

You can check if your ECU has a good set chassis? sometimes when the paint is new in the firewall or the ECU is new does not have good contact with the chassis and this causes the ECU to fail in a very rare, it occurred to me and in another car and it was just the copper braid that gives a better chassis setup

[66fury]

already checked that ground situation..... but heres the latest: if u install comp cam hydraulic  lifters u will need shorter push rods! i called them directly. this only happens to 440s, the lifters are slightly longer and hold the valves open 1/50,000th of an inch with stock push rods!! i will update when i get new push rods!!!

[ACUDANUT]

66 Fury, I could see that as a problem, But not a normal issue at all.

[ACUDANUT]

Brumono, don't you have the same problem.

[brumono]

Hi, no my problem is a back fire in the carburetor .

[71 SE3834V]

Before you pull the lifters you might want to do a compression check.

[cougs]

If you think that could be it, pull a valve cover to see of the rockers are moving like they should.  Big difference between .500 and .100.  Did the pushrods have play when you reassembled the engine?  Sounds like spark to me.  Did you pull a plugwire to see if it would arc to the block?

[red69superbee]

compression check first before ya break in to the engine.I had a challenger that had mopar electronic, that had fits of not starting sometime,cranking it wouldnt fire, but would hit once as you rolled the key back to off

[66fury]

update: pulled ifters and checked size with a micrometer.......they are almost a full  1/8" longer, putting new mopar lifters in this morning! will post results!

[tan top]

just seen this thread , don't forget puting  new lifters in , even with old cam , you need to break them in !! you need to do the same procedure as with new cam & lifters ,   or you should do  

just out of curiosity , when you mesured lifters where did you mesure from ? 

[Nwcharger]

I had a similar problem with my charger when I put an rv motor in it. I had spark and fuel but for some reason when the engine would crank the hot wire to the coil would loose its 12v source. I'll have to try and remember what I did to solve this problem. Have you checked to see if your coil is still hot when cranking?

[66fury]

the lifters came from comp cams, hey NW that sounds just like the issue i'm having, i hope u can remember what you had to do!!! haven't put new lifters in yet....

[bobs66440]

Keep in mind, the overall length of the lifter doesn't matter. What matters is the cup in the plunger where the push rod sits. It's best to get an adjustable push rod length checker. Use it to set the preload you want (.020"-.040" is optimum), measure the checker with a 12" dial caliper. If your stock rods are too long or short, you need to get custom length ones made. I got mine from Smith Bros.

Normally I would only check two or three, but I was getting some big differences, so I figured it's best to do them all so I can find the longest and shortest, then find a happy medium.





With a cast iron block/aluminum head engine, you get .012"-.015" growth (distance between lifter and rocker arm) so I had to take that into account. I ended up with a length that will give me between .023"-.057" preload when hot which is well within the lifter's operating range.

And, I would not install new lifters on a used cam. You may get away with it, but if you wipe a lope, you will end up with a real mess...

[66fury]

excellent advice, i did not have many quick options available so i choose to go to stock lifters from mother mopar, i did measure the lifter the proper way and they where longer. i do apperciate the advice guys. still a have a small problem even after fixing the lifters.... very little spark from all new componets?? another day of troubleshooting 

[69wannabe]

I have used comp cams cam and lifters kits in several 383's and 440's and haven't ran into a problem like this. Not saying that if they were holding the valves open there wouldn't be a problem but it shouldn't make the spark weak from the ignition. Make sure you got 12 volts going to the resistor and 8 ish volts going to the coil. You could even run 12 volts to the coil for a short period of time to see if it starts or if anything changes. Are you running a mopar ignition kit with an orange box? Like said above I have had to run a ground wire from the back of the block to one of the mounting screws on the orange box and even scrapped some of the paint off the orange box where the screw goes through to get it to ground. Have you swapped to a new orange box? They seem to go bad more often these days than they used to and the pick up coil inside the distributor could be bad also causing no fire issues!! Hope yall get it going soon!!!

[ottawamerc]

I agree with some of these guys, I would do a compression check before tearing into the engine but it sounds like your into it now anyways. As for the spark, make sure the spark has a good bluish color to it at the plugs any orange looking spark indicates a weak spark and that will cause alot of issues with a fresh tight engine. Is there any sign of unburnt fuel on the plugs after you try them? Oh and also be wary of any exess fuel that you may be pumping into your exhaust system trying to fire this thing cause once it does fire it may ruin your mufflers and your shorts Been there done that!
I did once have a problem with a misfire on one of my boats that caused me lots of grief and hours of changing parts and by a fluke one day I found it,, it was the 12V wire from the distributor to the coil that had broken down and caused all my problems. Easy fix but a nightmare to find.

Good luck
Scott