72 charger front suspension advice needed.

[XXSpiralXX]

   Im finally starting to get to some serious work on my 72, and I've come to a kind of crossroad.  The front suspension is stock with stock disc brakes and pst bushings, no swaybar. The steering box and idler arm is shot, but before I call Firm Feel I need to know what I am ordering.

  Swaybar : I've been told that in order to add a sway bar I need to change the lower control arms and weld or change the K frame. Sounds doable.
 
  Factory Disc Brakes : I can't find them for less than 150 dollars a pair. Cordoba brakes? When was the last time anybody found a cordoba in a junkyard? One possible solution is to put DRUM spindles on the car and then use one of the popular disc brake conversion kits to get the more desireable rotors.

  Possible Overall solution : Convert to the 73 front suspension? I've heard from several sources that it's better, but I really don't know if that's the case. I DO know that it is easier to find brakes for.
   
  Torsion bars : PST big block bars.

  Steering box : FFstage III, and the fast ratio idler arm.

   Lower control arms : FF boxed or tubular? Which is better?
   
   Shocks : KYB, or bilsteins? PST has them cheap enough I think...
   
   So what should I do here? Anybody have any suggestion about my ideas or any other input ?

[Kern Dog]

Hello and congrats on making the jump into the next level.
The K member in your car is similar to mine, so I may be able to help. No need to change it. It should be the same as mine. There are sway bar kits that are a direct fit for cars that already HAVE a sway bar, and there are others that include a small bracket that is retained by the bolt that retains the lower end of the shock. My first sway bar upgrade to the '70 was a modified 1 1/4" bar from a 1 ton GM truck. I later went with an 1 1/8" Addco unit.
Front disc brakes: If you cant find a Cordoba in a wrecking yard, what about an Aspen/Volare? How about a Gran Fury/Diplomat/5th Ave car? All of those have disc brakes that will retrofit your car. My Charger had 11" brakes from a 75 Dart until I spotted a Cordoba at a junkyard. Now it has the 12" rotors. There was no difference in braking between the two sizes. Maybe if I was canyon racing or doing repeated stops from 100 mph the extra INCH may help. The 11" rotors worked on the 3700 lb police cars!
Torsion bars: Back in the late 80s and early 90s, I read some of the work of a man named Herb Adams. He was a GM guy, but his principals were to use moderate springs for ride comfort and large sway bars to control body roll. Using this logic, I went with ONE inch torsion bars for my 440 car, along with HD leaf springs.
Shocks: I run KYBs but the word around the campfire is that they are too stiff for good handling. They are supposed to make cas SKIP over bumps instead of soaking them up. The less time that your tires have on the ground, the less cornering force you will have. The Bilstiens are a popular brand, but break out the wallet. The KYBs are around $125 a set. The Bilstiens are over $400.
Steering: Many ways to go here....The absolute CHEAPest is to use a low mileage chuck from a police car, then add shims to the valve in the P/S pump. This will give you a higher effort feel compared to the typical OVERboosted mopar power steering. The shims in the pump should add up to about .100 to .115 in thickness. If you can't find a decent used chuck, i absolutely do recomend Firm Feel Inc in Washington state. Great guys up there.
Lower control arms: Stock are fine. There has been much talk of beefed arms, tubulars and all that, but unless you intend to race the car exclusively, this is one of many areas where the factory
stuff if still great. To add some peace of mind, you could weld on the reinforcing plates offered or just make your own from some sheet metal.
You didn't mention frame connectors, but I will. I made them for my car using 3x3 .120 wall box tubing. I welded them into the car along with homemade torque boxes. Everything was painted to match the rest of the underbody, which matches to body.....
I didn't notice an improvement in the handling with the frame connectors. The difference that I noticed was in how the car handled rough roads. Now it just soaks up dips and potholes like a new car. No ripple effect of rattles afterwards, no shakes. The car actually rides smoother.
Keep us informed on the car.

[XXSpiralXX]

  Do  have any pictures of your frame connectors? I was just going to end up buying a set then welding them instead of bolting them in. Im interested in seeing how you tied everything together with the torque boxes.
  I live in NYC, so nothing in the junkyards older than '99 really. It's all ebay and cl or nothing.
 

[Kern Dog]

Pictures? I will have to take some and post them up.
The cost for the connectors and torque boxes was around $50 for the steel, a few sawzall blades and grinder discs.  FAR cheaper than buying a precut set.

[Nacho-RT74]

The ideal shocks would be those with fast compresion and slow expansion ( on a small diff rate between them )

[XXSpiralXX]

  Still fishing for some more advice.....

[Chryco Psycho]

You already have the 10.7" disc brakes , the Cordoba brakes with 11.8" rotors will only be marginally better , going to a viper caliper conversion should increase bite , actually hydroboost conversion tied in to the power steering would give the best feel . The 73-75 Dart or later 5th ave is a good choice as well .
I would look at the Hotchkiss Hollow sway bars  , far lighter & just as stiff .
For lower control arms you have 2 choices using T bar suspension , stock or CAP , just welding the stiffening plates on the LCA is fine .
You could look at the Hotchkiss kits , they reowrk the whole suspension system front & rear .
I would definatly add subframe connectors , I just build them from 1x2" 125 wall Tube , put a notch in them to follow the floor contour & weld them in tight to the floor onto the T bar crossmember & rear frame rail .
I am not a fan of the KYB either Bilsein are better , QA1 also has good shocks available , I am not sure the the Eddy IAS ones are still available but a lot of people like them also.
Herb Adams definatly had the right idea , I am pretty sure he said that almost 1/2 of the cornering improvements was just from lighter wheels of a larger diameter & better tires , 17" rims & Z rated tires for example .

[ACUDANUT]

"The front suspension is stock with stock disc brakes and pst bushings, no swaybar. The steering box and idler arm is shot, but before I call Firm Feel ".

What's wrong with your front disc brakes you have ?  New rotors don't cost too much.

[XXSpiralXX]

  For some reason I can never find new rotors for less than 280 a pair. This was several years ago when I was still driving the car daily. The 73 front rotors were FAR cheaper, like 120 for the pair. I could never get an answer why this was. They're also really hard to find. Parts availablity is a big deal when your stuck on the side of the road and need to get something rom autozone.
  One of the modifications I made out of necessity was the GM hei distributor. I don't think I put it in right because I am still getting a lot of detonation. I got it off a local mopar guy and it was real cheap. He had it for years on one of his cudas.

[Chryco Psycho]

the 71 brake rotor is a hard to get rotor , , it has the smaller inner brg , Dr Diff I believe has some sort of adapter to mount a later rotor on that spindle though

[XXSpiralXX]

  Oh yeah? Who is this doctor diff ( Do you mean the toyota guy, northwest offroad?  ) and where do I find him/her?

[Chryco Psycho]

http://www.doctordiff.com/

[ACUDANUT]

  Oh yeah? Who is this doctor diff ( Do you mean the toyota guy, northwest offroad?  ) and where do I find him/her?

[XXSpiralXX]

 Oh yeah? Who is this doctor diff ( Do you mean the toyota guy, northwest offroad?  ) and where do I find him/her?

 Ahhhhh you laugh but HERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  --------------->>>>   http://www.northwestoffroad.com/parts/diff_dr.php
  So there...  

  Thank you for the right link by the way.

[ACUDANUT]

BTW I have a set of 73 Charger spindles and rotors for 150.00

[Kern Dog]

Sorry that I forgot to post the pix of the frame connectors! I simply forgot! I'll try to get them within the next few days!

[HPP]

    Swaybar : I've been told that in order to add a sway bar I need to change the lower control arms and weld or change the K frame. Sounds doable. 

Why bother, weld on brackets and save yourself the search. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HSS-23367/
 

  Factory Disc Brakes : I can't find them for less than 150 dollars a pair. Cordoba brakes? When was the last time anybody found a cordoba in a junkyard? One possible solution is to put DRUM spindles on the car and then use one of the popular disc brake conversion kits to get the more desireable rotors.

  Possible Overall solution : Convert to the 73 front suspension? I've heard from several sources that it's better, but I really don't know if that's the case. I DO know that it is easier to find brakes for.

The big bearing rotors are much easier to find and cheaper to pick up. I'd give this a go.

   

  Torsion bars : PST big block bars.

Fair enough. Are these their $199 specials? Decent starting place.

 

Steering box : FFstage III, and the fast ratio idler arm.

Good start.

   Lower control arms : FF boxed or tubular? Which is better?

I'd keep the stock ones and add the boxing plates. Add the brackets above and the paltes and your set. plates are here; http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/coarmstpl.html
   

   Shocks : KYB, or bilsteins? PST has them cheap enough I think...

Bilsteins are better, so are Konis, but quality costs. Shocks are the heart of the suspension and cheaping out here can influence the behaviour of the whole system. KYBs can get you by, but the valving is such that small bumps are absorbed harshly and larger deviations overpower them. 

[billfury]

Hey XXspiralXX here's a picture of my 72 charger's connectors that CJM chassis did for me in Staten Island. If you live in NYC you have a bunch of yards on the island, more in Jersey. PM me if you need help. You're not far from me.

[XXSpiralXX]

   Nice. I like the way those connectors came out. I haven't messed with the car in awhile, been busy with work and whatnot, but I need the car by may/june so It's order time. Tomorrow or the next day I will order the stage 2 box from FF. I haven't found enough info about the firmness of the different stages so I want to play it safe. Still wondering what to do with the brakes. Calling doctor diff first though. I will update as I do some work.

[XXSpiralXX]

  Ok. Tubular upper arms. Magnumforce or PST ? Anybody have any experience with the pst arms ?

[ACUDANUT]

  For some reason I can never find new rotors for less than 280 a pair. This was several years ago when I was still driving the car daily. The 73 front rotors were FAR cheaper, like 120 for the pair. I could never get an answer why this was. They're also really hard to find. Parts availablity is a big deal when your stuck on the side of the road and need to get something rom autozone.
  One of the modifications I made out of necessity was the GM hei distributor. I don't think I put it in right because I am still getting a lot of detonation. I got it off a local mopar guy and it was real cheap. He had it for years on one of his cudas.

Have you called O'reillys, Autozone. Pepboys, Kragen, Parts America. I know you can find them cheaper than 280.00 a pair.
A GM HEI dist...I'd pass
Swaybar's from any 71-72 b-body will work without a doubt, regardless of big or small block K-frame (which imo are the same.)

[XXSpiralXX]

  For some reason I can never find new rotors for less than 280 a pair. This was several years ago when I was still driving the car daily. The 73 front rotors were FAR cheaper, like 120 for the pair. I could never get an answer why this was. They're also really hard to find. Parts availablity is a big deal when your stuck on the side of the road and need to get something rom autozone.
  One of the modifications I made out of necessity was the GM hei distributor. I don't think I put it in right because I am still getting a lot of detonation. I got it off a local mopar guy and it was real cheap. He had it for years on one of his cudas.

Have you called O'reillys, Autozone. Pepboys, Kragen, Parts America. I know you can find them cheaper than 280.00 a pair.
A GM HEI dist...I'd pass
Swaybar's from any 71-72 b-body will work without a doubt, regardless of big or small block K-frame (which imo are the same.)

yeah i checked out a bunch of those places. I finally got them from autozone but they took a week to get and were pricey