superbird grill surround hardware??

[DoubleDlover]

ok. what is the correct type of screws and clips or nuts for the grill surround and turn signal surrounds?? I know the screws are phillips. But does it use J clips? or machene thread and nuts/ cause when everything is attatched. I can see the Nut clips sticking out from under the moldings. Oh and how long are the screws suppose to be? thanks

[Redbird]

On original cars many of the Phillips screws have a small flat shoulder on them.

[Redbird]

The retaining clips are somewhat shorter than the ones available at the hardware store.

[FJ5WING]

Redbird, Is that an original screw? My nose was replaced in the seventies so anything up front is suspect to me.

My screws dont look like that.

If the pictured screw is factory original who can pont me in the direction of new ones?

[Redbird]

Yes it is an original screw. I have no idea where one would find correct new ones.

Some of the current reproduction S/B grill frames are really badly done. Sue George had reproductions done about 1980 that are excellent, there is a "tell" if you place them next to an original, but Sue's are probably as good a repro as there are. I think NOS drivers sides are very hard to find.

[RealWing]

This is the reply I got from David Patik about my screws. Note there were 2 different styles used.

There were 2 different screws used for Superbird grilles. The more common one was a truly flat headed philips with a counter sunk head. The threads are a 10-24 and the screw length from the head to the tip is half an inch. The other version was a chromed screw with a philips head that was rounded, not flat. You can find the chrome version at any auto body supply store. The flat headed version you have to make yourself, which is not hard to do. You have to take a rounded head and make it flat. That means you have to use stainless steel or it will rust. The screws in your picture are the philips head chromed with the rounded head. Let me know if you need help finding these. All screws will be painted body color for the grille frame and the parking light frames.

David Patik
850-878-1450
Performance Car Graphics

[RealWing]

My screws were the rounded chrome type

[FJ5WING]

Thanks for clearing things up for me Redbird! Im not looking for any nose parts. I was told the cone was a dealer part with all the existing parts transferred over. I just always have some doubt since who knows who did what back then.

Jim...excellent pics! I have new screws with a little different thread compared to my originals but Ill use them.

[DAY CLONA]

This is the reply I got from David Patik about my screws. Note there were 2 different styles used.

There were 2 different screws used for Superbird grilles. The more common one was a truly flat headed philips with a counter sunk head. The threads are a 10-24 and the screw length from the head to the tip is half an inch. The other version was a chromed screw with a philips head that was rounded, not flat. You can find the chrome version at any auto body supply store. The flat headed version you have to make yourself, which is not hard to do. You have to take a rounded head and make it flat. That means you have to use stainless steel or it will rust. The screws in your picture are the philips head chromed with the rounded head. Let me know if you need help finding these. All screws will be painted body color for the grille frame and the parking light frames.

David Patik
850-878-1450
Performance Car Graphics

When I offered steel Superbird grille frames in the past, I supplied the flat undercut screws, and J clips, they are available from www.mcmastercarr.com although they are Stainless Steel, which IMHO is better to avoid rusting, and they will get painted later in an OEM build, part# for the screws is 93085A242, as for clips I forgot the pn#, but a little digging on the McMaster site you'll find them, bag of 25, 100 degree undercut Philips 10-24X1/2" SS screws will cost ya $8

Mike.

[DAY CLONA]

Some of the current reproduction S/B grill frames are really badly done. Sue George had reproductions done about 1980 that are excellent, there is a "tell" if you place them next to an original, but Sue's are probably as good a repro as there are. I think NOS drivers sides are very hard to find.
[/quote]



I offered steel Superbird grille frames many years ago, I know Gene Gregory offers them as well, I was "working" with Jack McGaughey on his project of repro-ing the SB grille frames, I told him the reason I stopped offering them was because of the nature of how the original cones were assembled, the grille openings varied so much, nose to nose, that each application was becoming a custom fit application, where I was relying on customers to supply me measurements, and you can guess how well that went...when a vendor offers a repro front cone, then their tooling/assy of the cone can control the finished openings, so they can tool up for a "standardized" grille frame(s)...NOS/surplus cones that various customers had, really ran the range bigtime as far as opening dimensions, I take it the NOS cones were either rejects, left for dealers/bodyshops to play with, as far as fitment, or the NOS cones were the result of the fit/finish going to hell as the Kirksite dies/bucks were nearing their dimension lifespan after "passing" a few thousand cones....Jack G had several SB grille frames (originals) and concurred, no 2 were exact, this was many of the concerns he had regarding his steel repro Bird cones, what dimension to make "standard" in the openings that we discussed at length in the past...Daytonas however didn't suffer this problem, as I got my hands on as many original Tona frames as I could for comparison, and my repro Tona frames, as I sold well over a 100+, where never an issue for fit, regardless of who's cone was used,Dayclona, Janek, McGauhey, or original.

Mike

[Redbird]

If someone finds the clip number, I along with more than a few others will be making a purchase. Thank you Mike.

I have 3 different grill sets. 1 from a mid production car, 1 dealer over the counter, and a set from Sue George. They are all exactly identical in dimension. Luck of the draw. My dad identified the repro set in about 5 seconds.

I have no doubt that nose cones are different. I also have no idea how the grill frames were made. The frames have small frame width and steep bends.

[DoubleDlover]

How does master carr # 94809A205  look for the J clips?  or 94809A215 ??  which is better?

[FJ5WING]

as much as I want to place that McMaster-Carr order Im going with the chrome headed screws that came out.

Im thankful for having access to the wealth of knowledge available to wing car owners in 2013!

[DonC1]

            '  Im thankful for having access to the wealth of knowledge available to wing car owners in 2013!  '

Ditto !

[moparstuart]

If someone finds the clip number, I along with more than a few others will be making a purchase. Thank you Mike.

I have 3 different grill sets. 1 from a mid production car, 1 dealer over the counter, and a set from Sue George. They are all exactly identical in dimension. Luck of the draw. My dad identified the repro set in about 5 seconds.

I have no doubt that nose cones are different. I also have no idea how the grill frames were made. The frames have small frame width and steep bends.

i would like to place and  " X " in the center square please   

[Redbird]

The top set is the reproduction set.

Whoever Sue had make these did an excellent job. I wouldn't be surprised if someone along the way paid NOS money for a set. I really think 95 people out of 100 couldn't tell the difference.

These are the tells:
1. Corners-ever so slightly different profile than a production set, corners are hard to get perfect.
2. Width-very hard to get exactly as a production stamped set-to get it exact you would have to build a form, then build a grill, measure, then build at least 1 modified form to get the proper width-the difference is small but perceivable on something less than 5/8"wide.
3. On the factory end frames, not all the folds are at 90 degrees to the front. I'd guess there was a press that the factory ones were made in and the factory forms were aligned in a particular way so that all the folds were at 90 degrees to the form.
4. The reproductions end frames have "ghosts" from being handmade that the factory pressed sets do not.

The punched holes on the reproduction sets are all perfect, which is not necessarily the case on the factory sets.

I'd guess that Mike's are just as good or better than these. But some of the reproduction sets fall down really badly-especially in the corners.

[DoubleDlover]

How does master carr # 94809A205  look for the J clips?  or 94809A215 ??  which is better?

[DAY CLONA]

How does master carr # 94809A205  look for the J clips?  or 94809A215 ??  which is better?

Those 2 clips while "appearing" to look correct, have a center dimension of .203 you'll never line up the grille frame to the clips, and the hole of the clips will fall short of reaching the holes in the grille opening in the cone mounting flange,......while not "correct" appearing (who's going to know!) your better off with these 2 clips 94808A155, and 94808A152 they have a bolt center of .359 and .312 , the 94808A152 clip is ideal if you have a fiberglass cone, as the clip can accommodate skin thickness up to .080, it range is .025-.080, so it'll work on steel cones as well, the 94808A155 has a panel range of .020-.040, plus the .359 bolt center gives you a little more play to get the clip lined up with the hole in the grille frame mounting flange on the cone....if you measure from the center of the hole on the grill frame mounting flange on the cone, to the edge where the clip goes, you'll average .312 (5/16")

Mike

[remta1]

anyone know where i can get a new grille / park lenses surround set and mesh from   ( also without paying the earth for them  :eyes:o

[remta1]

found a set