440 Basic proven build specs and questions??

[68CoronetRT]

Hello!! So I'm starting to gather info on doing the upper part of my motor build and I'm getting lost in this world of information and what to run and not run etc..

Basic run down.

Stock 440 stroke/bore
Forged Pistons/Crank
Pistons are set at deck height and are flat top
Bottom end was balanced and blueprinted.

My questions are simple. What would be a good combo for a 500ish hp build on pump gas?

So far I'm thinking Eddy heads but not sure if it should be 84 or 88cc chambers? how about the 440 source heads?
Something around a .500 lift cam (Suggestions?)
Rocker ratio would be a 1.5:1 I guess? What rockers are good? Would stock work with that amount of lift?
Performer RPM intake
I have a Holley 770 vacuum secondaries carb (Is this enough?)
What length pushrod?
What lifters?

I understand some of this will have to come after the heads are installed, but Im looking to be pointed in a somewhat basic direction that has been a proven combo for street and occasional strip usage.

Any input would help alot! 

[Scaregrabber]

That looks like a good build. Am I reading it right that these pistons will be zero deck (measured). If so that is great, I always suggest the 84cc heads and you will need a head gasket that will give you .050 clearance from the piston top to the head surface. I like the 528 solid lifter MP camshaft myself in a build like this, or something more aggressive with a 4 speed and 4.10 gears or so, otherwise the 528 will work great.
The 770 is adequate, an 850 will give more performance on the top end but the 770 will be more driveable. I would run EDM lifters from Howards on that solid cam, they have a little hole in the face that should help with keeping the lobes intact.
What car is it going in? Weight, gear ratio, transmission, stall of convertor if automatic?

Sheldon

[Cooter]

Looks good, but I'd try and stray from the stock rockers if you got the cashola. Stock ratios vary and are not actually 1.5...
Go with a solid lift cam if money permits. You will love it over a flat tappet Hydraulic.
Are the "Flat top" pistons the ones with 4 eyebrows? Or are they simply a true flat top slug like a rebuilder piston with NO eyebrows?
500 HP shouldn't too hard to come by with aftermarket heads.
600 HP is a little tougher.

[68CoronetRT]

I will know about the pistons here shortly after I take the current iron heads off. Would the pistons with the 'eyebrows' effect my head choice? maybe cam choice?

Its going in my 68 Coronet. 4 speed, 3:91 ratio 8 3/4.

So aftermarket rockers are a must. Do I need adjustable ones with the solid cam? EDM Lifters? I thought you want to run whatever lifters come with the cam? or is that more of a "do a cam and lifters at the same time so they break in together" kind of deal?

What about pushrod length? Is this a must or would stock length work?

Thanks for all this input!! This really helps out!

[Cooter]

The Eyebrow pistons are commonly referred to as the "Six Pack" replacements and have a taller compression height.

Not many people do, but I have had very good luck with solid cams and the Ductile Iron rockers which are adjaustable(Yes, needed with solid lift cam), but ony available in 1.5 stock ratio. Many have run roller rockers, but I haven't had very good luck with them sending needle bearing in motors and what not.
Cam and lifters at same time is a MUST...ALSO!!! Run the "good" oil with LOTS of break -in ZDDP(Zinc/Phos.)
Pushrod length is determined by head choice. I know with Eddy heads, you will need special pushrods.

[68CoronetRT]

So on the .528 cam, with the Eddy heads, would I need double valve springs?

Also which iron rockers do I need? I cant tell how you adjust them?

And would it be 3/8th or 7/16 push rods?

Thanks!!

[Cooter]

So on the .528 cam, with the Eddy heads, would I need double valve springs?

Also which iron rockers do I need? I cant tell how you adjust them?

And would it be 3/8th or 7/16 push rods?

Thanks!!

All this info, AND parts can be had when you purchase the heads. Google/Youtube valve adjustment. WAY too much to try and type here.

[Challenger340]

just a suggestion
when using any aftermarket Cylinder Heads with Big Valves and any Camshaft above .500" Lift ?
If your Pistons are actually zero deck at TDC, and are Flat Tops with no eyebrows, you may wish to, and should, check the Piston to Valve clearance very closely.

[68CoronetRT]

Ok Got some more info now.

Speedpro forged pistons @ zero deck. They do have the valve relief cut in them.

Its a stock crank/rods. Block is a 73'. Been balanced.

Current cam is a Voodoo .512 lift hydrolic flat tappet. 3 bolt

So is that enough info to decide on which head to buy? Stock stroke/bore too.

[Cooter]

That same basic engine buildis what I have in the Challenger and with IRON,Closed chamber heads, I have too much cylinder pressure with that cam. (IE too much compression). You will need to run aluminum heads for sure. Whether they be Eddy heads, or Stealth heads.

[68CoronetRT]

That must be why the old owner was complaining of having to mix race gas on the old iron heads.

My plan is to run Eddy heads, but which CC? 84 or 88 open chamber. I think they make a 75? closed chamber too.

RPM heads or E street heads? Is there a difference?

Edit: reading some more about the heads and sounds like I might have a spark plug clearance problem with the angled plug that is in the RPM heads? But the e street only comes in a closed chamber 75cc which I cant really run, so maybe the 440source heads?

[Brightyellow69rtse]

i went wth the stealths for a few reasons but the biggest reason was the plugs are straight. i wanteds to use my cheapie headers for a while before i upgrade.

[Cooter]

That must be why the old owner was complaining of having to mix race gas on the old iron heads.

Edit: reading some more about the heads and sounds like I might have a spark plug clearance problem with the angled plug that is in the RPM heads? But the e street only comes in a closed chamber 75cc which I cant really run, so maybe the 440source heads?

Tothe second part: No, see with ALUMINUM heads, you can STILL RUN the closed chambers as the aluminum gets rid of the excess heat and allows for about a full point of compression OVER IRON HEADS. That's the beauty of aluminum heads. So, go for it.

[68CoronetRT]

So with the Stealth heads I could run my setup on pump gas? They are 80cc Closed chamber. Looking for 10:1 or so on the compression.

This head choice thing has my head spinning. Then you introduce the angled plug to header clearance problem and just wow!!

[Cooter]

So with the Stealth heads I could run my setup on pump gas? They are 80cc Closed chamber. Looking for 10:1 or so on the compression.

This head choice thing has my head spinning. Then you introduce the angled plug to header clearance problem and just wow!!

1st part, yes....10.0:1 with aluminum heads will be fine with a healthy street cam I would think. IRON heads would be pushing it.

2nd part, No angle plug heads when running STEALTH. However, you DO NEED TO TAKE THEM INTO THE MACHINE SHOP AND HAVE THEM LOOKED OVER. Some here have spotted problems. Yes, even when new, out the box.

With the Eddy heads, you have to run angle plugs. Good heads no doubt, but angle plug heads.

[68CoronetRT]

So I figured out if I run the stealth head with .030 overbore and .051 compressed metal head gasket I will be right at 10.2:1.

How much power can the stock crank/rods handle in a post 72' block? We are talking about nitrous now; around a 150 shot.

[RECHRGD]

I run the Mopar Performance "452" aluminum heads.  They are made by Edelbrock and are the same as the RPM except they have straight plugs.  No header problems......

[Cooter]

150 shot isn't all that much. You don't get the "Vin Deisel" effect until you get up around 180-200 Shot. I'm bombing 200 HP on a stock "LY" rod/ crank/block lower end right now, but NOT EVERY time I go to the strip.

It'll live with a small shot like 150. After that, you better start saving for lower end beef ups.

[68CoronetRT]

So Im shooting for like 500ish HP with just the motor and then run a 150 shot which would be into the 600+ range. So Stock-ish bottom end will handle that? It does have speedpro's forged pistons with -7cc valve relief.

And I now see those heads would be awesome! But for the price of 1 head I can get 2 heads from 440source and just swap out the locks/retainers to the 10* and there it is.

What about carb? would my 770 holley do the trick or should I be looking at an 850 dp for max power?

[Cooter]

So Im shooting for like 500ish HP with just the motor and then run a 150 shot which would be into the 600+ range. So Stock-ish bottom end will handle that? It does have speedpro's forged pistons with -7cc valve relief.Asking this question is like asking "After smoking everyday for the past 40 years, how long before i catch cancer?"  It'll do it, but for how long, I do not know. Nobody can say. As a"Rule of thumb" ONLY!!!
A "Stock" Cast piston/compression 440 will "Handle" a 150 Shot. You have a 10.2:1 500 inch motor. a 150 Shot will feel ALOT different on a 10.2:1 motor than it will on a 9.0:1 motor. Also, the cylinder pressure goes up DRAMATICALLY. Blown head gaskets might be in your future ESPECIALLY if your running NON Cometic gaskets.(IE FEL PRO "Blues")

You are rolling the dice every time you spray a stock bottom end 440. Please understand, all those YouTube videos you see where they are posting HUGE Hp numbers, are usually ONE SHOT/Flash in the pan deals. Sure, I can make 1000 HP with a stock block 440 ONE TIME.

And I now see those heads would be awesome! But for the price of 1 head I can get 2 heads from 440source and just swap out the locks/retainers to the 10* and there it is.

What about carb? would my 770 holley do the trick or should I be looking at an 850 dp for max power? Depends on your set up. I like to go conservative when choosing carbs. I don't buy into the "Put an 850 DP Holley on it because a 440 NEEDS all that" Bullsh*t. If you can drown a 500 inch motor with a 750 Holley, why would you need an 850? If the engine isn't "using" all that CFM, why have all that extra fuel?
Of course, to find out what your engine actually needs, you will need to dyno tune it. Bench racing is fun, but REAL WORLD numbers do not lie.

[68CoronetRT]

I love bench racing!! haha

It does have forged pistons. The NOS thing was kind of a 'hey we have a setup, lets throw it on" I dont think I'll be using NOS after doing some reading. 445 or 450 ci and alum heads + a nice cam and I'll be in the 450+ ball park which is more than enough HP for me (I DD a 85hp 95' civic).

[68CoronetRT]

Ok so finally picked up the block today and here is what I found out.

The pistons are in the hole .020(is that alot?), which means I need to run a .027 head gasket to achieve a 10.27:1 comp ratio. Should be ok with aluminum heads and pump gas.

Now I also found out that the 'intermediate oil shaft" broke on the hex end. Looking at summit there are two different styles of the gears? Bronze bushing a good move or not? Has a millings high volume pump and 8qt oil pan.

It also has the Lunati 60304 cam which sounds like a decent street cam. Is it a big deal to degree the cam or not?

Is the 440 source water pump setup any good?

[XH29N0G]

It also has the Lunati 60304 cam which sounds like a decent street cam. Is it a big deal to degree the cam or not?

See what the experts say on this, but my own experience with this was that it was not a big deal.  I installed a cam a smaller cam in a 383 following what was on the cam card that came with it and checked how it was degreed and it was where it was supposed to be.  It seemed accurate and precise, and I learned something in the process.  Note I did not try to change it from what lunati recommended.

[Cooter]

Ok so finally picked up the block today and here is what I found out.

The pistons are in the hole .020(is that alot?), which means I need to run a .027 head gasket to achieve a 10.27:1 comp ratio. Should be ok with aluminum heads and pump gas.Sounds about right. Should be ok to around 11.0:1 compression with aluminum heads.

Now I also found out that the 'intermediate oil shaft" broke on the hex end. Looking at summit there are two different styles of the gears? Bronze bushing a good move or not? Has a millings high volume pump and 8qt oil pan.Bronze gear only NEEDED when running Billet ROLLER cam.

It also has the Lunati 60304 cam which sounds like a decent street cam. Is it a big deal to degree the cam or not?Correct, decent cam for street.

Is the 440 source water pump setup any good?Many have had problems running hot with 44osource water closet/pumps.

[68CoronetRT]

Ok Next up is gaskets and a few valleypan questions.

Is there 4 side gaskets(Sandwhich), a valleypan gasket and an actual valley pan? is the 440source one any good?

If the 440source waterpump isnt very good then what is a good solid brand?