Starter won't stop

[lukedukem]

I got in my 69 yesterday and went to start it and it kept turning over. I even turned the ignition switch to off and pulled the key out. WTF. It finally started and I could here the starter still going. It finally stopped after a coupl,e more seconds. Any one have a clue. I tried searching but nothing. When I put the key back in it, I turn it off and it shut down the engine. I never noticed this before and it just started doing this. The only thing I changed was that I plugged that plug back in my tranny, the one for the reverse lights. But I think that had nothing todo with it.
Part2: when driving too my cousins house, my wife noticed smoke coming out of the dash. I pulled over and it stopped, wasn't that much.  No smell. But some of the gauges were a little foggy at first. But they all still work. I've searched about this issue and still am not sure if these two are connected. It's a first for both.

Luke

[JB400]

About the starter:  Sounds like either the solenoid is sticking or there is something shorting out and engaging the solenoid.

I wouldn't drive it anymore until you find out what's smoking.  I'd even pull the battery just as a precaution.

[lukedukem]

Ok, I just went out and tried to start it with the coili plug off. It kept turning over as I pulled out the key and got out and walked to front of car.. Then it stopped. Then I unplugged the tranny plug and tried again only turns over when I hold it. So I know now that its the tyranny plug that's the issue. Now what. Why would this happen when I put that plug on    I need that plug for reverse lights for an inspection sticker, right?



Not sure if its also causing the little smoke I saw. Or the foggy gauges.

[Nacho-RT74]

two only reasons for that:
Starter relay damaged
Starter Motor solenoid damaged

I don't think the NSS is the problem... thats just a ground source when in P or N for the relay. Even still with constant ground ( accidentally relay grounded ) the positive signal is what trigs out the solenoid

[lukedukem]

two only reasons for that:
Starter relay damaged
Starter Motor solenoid damaged

I don't think the NSS is the problem... thats just a ground source when in P or N for the relay. Even still with constant ground ( accidentally relay grounded ) the positive signal is what trigs out the solenoid

If it was something with the starter, wouldn't it do it all the time. It's just funny how I can plug in the nss and it will crank for a while with no key. Then remove the plug and it will crank normal. I'm totally confused. But if you think it's those things were can I get them do I can start replacing.

Luke

[John_Kunkel]

I had the same problem with my old '70 Charger, I carried a long steel rod to smack the starter with to stop it from running until I got around to replacing the starter; only happened occasionally so I was in no hurry to replace it.

Once the solenoid is energized, the contacts inside connect the battery cable to the starter motor....if the solenoid doesn't release when it should, the power to the starter motor is still connected and the starter will continue to run until the battery is disconnected or a sharp blow shocks the solenoid loose. 

[Nacho-RT74]

Luke, the contacting plate of starter motor solenoid can be bended, twisted or somehow broken... or spring worn. Yes can be making contact for sometime when you energize it and even release by itself randomly.

Is a posibility... not saying is the reason since is hard that could happen, but after starter relay checked &/or replaced, still does it, is something to check

HOWEVER if you say as soon you plug and unplugg the NSS you can make work the starter or cut ( I guess just in P or N )... then is true is not starter. Definitelly you have a shorted starter relay OR constant positive source coming from yellow wire.

to discard the yellow wire is working propperlly is simple... Unplug it, and check is energized just when cranking from key.

I think everything points out to the relay itself

[lukedukem]

HOWEVER if you say as soon you plug and unplugg the NSS you can make work the starter or cut ( I guess just in P or N )... then is true is not starter. Definitelly you have a shorted starter relay OR constant positive source coming from yellow wire.

to discard the yellow wire is working propperlly is simple... Unplug it, and check is energized just when cranking from key.

I think everything points out to the relay itself

yes, i don't know why but messing with the NSS changes it... so you are saying to check the yellow wire first. i'm not sure what or were this is, if you can help me out on this one, and if i have to change the relay. again were is this and how. sorry nacho, not electrical guy and oh i'm color blind too.


luke

[cdr]

how do you have it bypassed for it to start w/o the n safe swtch plugged in,you might have things wired wrong & voltage is backfeeding to the starter relay with the n/s swtch plugged in

[Nacho-RT74]

that sounds good to check too. Inverted NSS ( GND ) and IGN wires could PROBABLY make that ? dunno . There is a reason why NSS ( GND ) plug is diff from the other one, to plug it just on the right prong, unless modified plug.

[lukedukem]

how do you have it bypassed for it to start w/o the n safe swtch plugged in,you might have things wired wrong & voltage is backfeeding to the starter relay with the n/s swtch plugged in

i have no clue. it was like that when i got it.

[lukedukem]

that sounds good to check too. Inverted NSS ( GND ) and IGN wires could PROBABLY make that. There is a reason why NSS ( GND ) plug is diff from the other one, to plug it just on the right prong, unless modified plug.

i thought about that, maybe i got the switch backwards. would that matter

[cdr]

it could,you need to ck the wiring as nacho sent,then disable what ever was done to bypass the n/s switch.

[lukedukem]

it could,you need to ck the wiring as nacho sent,then disable what ever was done to bypass the n/s switch.

i'm bad on this stuff, but is that located on the fenderwell. can you show me a pic

[firefighter3931]

The starter relay is locared on the firewall near the master cylinder. Just follow the battery cable to the firewall and it will lead to the starter relay. It sounds like a bad starter solenoid to me 


Ron

[lukedukem]

The starter relay is locared on the firewall near the master cylinder. Just follow the battery cable to the firewall and it will lead to the starter relay. It sounds like a bad starter solenoid to me 


Ron

is there a way to get rid of all that crap. or a more simpler system. lol
so the relay is pribably bad... is that the cause for the smoke coming outta the dash. or foggy gauges?

[lukedukem]

i took pics of my car because it didn't look like nacho's drawing.... i think theres a jumper wire thats not suppose to be there...
and it just looks crowded...

luke

[cdr]

that is a messsssssss!!!!!!!!!! it needs to be rewired 

[cdr]

thats a bunch of terrible fire hazard wiring on that car!!! no wonder when you plugged in the N/S swtch things started smoking,,,,,,,,GET IT FIXED BEFORE YOU DRIVE IT ANYMORE-----------DISCONECT THE BATTERY!!!!! 

[JB400]

Take the easy way out and get a new correct harness.  Unless someone can figure out your mess

[Nacho-RT74]

YUUUUMMIIIIEEEEE, IIII LOVE IT!!!

LOL

It looks the white jumper WHICH IS CONNECTED TO THE OUTPUT FOR THE STARTER MOTOR SOLENOID, is retrofeeding the ign switch source ( input trigger ) once activated... GOTCHA!!!! will never stop, because once activated you are keeping the output ( black wire to sol ) feeding the trigger ( ign source, where originally the yellow wire must reach )

BUT it must be some reason why it was wired in that way... that jumper is EFECTIVELLY JUMPING the starter relay function from trigger

[Finn]

Happened on one of my challengers as I was driving down the road last year.  Very likely a starter solenoid issue.

[lukedukem]

that is a messsssssss!!!!!!!!!! it needs to be rewired 

thats what i would like mine to look like, how do i get rid of all this crap... my battery is in the trunk already....

luke

[lukedukem]

Take the easy way out and get a new correct harness.  Unless someone can figure out your mess

wre can i get one from, are they hard to put in?

luke

[lukedukem]

YUUUUMMIIIIEEEEE, IIII LOVE IT!!!

LOL

It looks the white jumper WHICH IS CONNECTED TO THE OUTPUT FOR THE STARTER MOTOR SOLENOID, is retrofeeding the ign switch source ( input trigger ) once activated... GOTCHA!!!! will never stop, because once activated you are keeping the output ( black wire to sol ) feeding the trigger ( ign source, where originally the yellow wire must reach )

BUT it must be some reason why it was wired in that way... that jumper is EFECTIVELLY JUMPING the starter relay function from trigger

i thought that white wire was wrong.. turn out the whole thing is wrong.... what whould i do now...

luke

[resq302]

Luke,

It all depends if you want it fixed right.  If you do it right, you could put your worries aside about any possible electrical fires and such by getting a new harness (which will not be cheap) and then everything will be hooked up as the way the factory had intended.  Option 2 would be to fix it cheap and just take care of the issue at hand now but could cause other issues later down the road.  If it were my car (and I assume a bunch of other people would do this too), I would spend the money for a new wire harness and then slowly replace all the other harness' for the vehicle that have been butchered.  Our cars (and lives) are worth way too much to have something as simple and stupid as a wiring problem cause the car (and possibly house depending where you keep it) go up in flames.

[lukedukem]

Luke,

It all depends if you want it fixed right.  If you do it right, you could put your worries aside about any possible electrical fires and such by getting a new harness (which will not be cheap) and then everything will be hooked up as the way the factory had intended.  Option 2 would be to fix it cheap and just take care of the issue at hand now but could cause other issues later down the road.  If it were my car (and I assume a bunch of other people would do this too), I would spend the money for a new wire harness and then slowly replace all the other harness' for the vehicle that have been butchered.  Our cars (and lives) are worth way too much to have something as simple and stupid as a wiring problem cause the car (and possibly house depending where you keep it) go up in flames.

i want it done right. that's for sure. so were do i get the new harness, does it come with instructions. is there anything else i need to get that is recomended to go with it...

what about the foggy gauges and that little white smoke i had. the foggy guages were before this issue, just wasn't happeing all the time but i know theres an issue...

luke

[resq302]

Unfortuantely, Year One has exclusive rights to the Mopar wiring that M&H wiring makes up for our cars.  Best thing to do since they are pricey is to wait for a sale when they have them and get it then.   More than likely the little white smoke was a gauge burning up from either the voltage limiter (rectangular metal box with 3 prongs that plugs into the back of your cluster) went bad and gave 12 volts to your 5 volt gauges or your ammeter could have shorted out or the wiring for the ammeter could have started failing.

Do your gauges work?

[lukedukem]

Unfortuantely, Year One has exclusive rights to the Mopar wiring that M&H wiring makes up for our cars.  Best thing to do since they are pricey is to wait for a sale when they have them and get it then.   More than likely the little white smoke was a gauge burning up from either the voltage limiter (rectangular metal box with 3 prongs that plugs into the back of your cluster) went bad and gave 12 volts to your 5 volt gauges or your ammeter could have shorted out or the wiring for the ammeter could have started failing.

Do your gauges work?

yes, they all work.... at first they fog up then after about five minutes they stop.. but recently they smoke started.... but yes they work

luke

[resq302]

Are they pegged all the way over to the right?  Also, what is your ammeter doing?  What is the position of the needle when the car is running and all the lights and such are off?

[lukedukem]

Are they pegged all the way over to the right?  Also, what is your ammeter doing?  What is the position of the needle when the car is running and all the lights and such are off?

no they arn't pegged all they way to the right...
my ammeter sits in the middle until i give it gas then it pegs out to the right...
should be in the middle when idle. until pedal is givin
BUT, the tach stops after 3000rpm. it will drop down and bottom out, then it will kick up when i let off gas? 
alsowhen i turn on the blower motor the tach actually works all the way up to 3500 rpm???
WTF

luke

[resq302]

Sounds like you certainly have a wiring issue.  Your ammeter should NEVER go fully to the right unless you have a totally dead battery and even at those amps, the wiring would not be able to handle it resulting in a fire.  Check what kind of voltage your alternator or voltage regulator (engine compartment) is putting out when you give it gas.  Almost sounds like you might have a dead short somewhere which is causing the severe overcharging issue.  Either way, it needs to get fixed FAST!

[Nacho-RT74]

this thread is to explain you how the ammeter works

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0.html

beside that, I explain there how to make an upgrade on a Mopar way... but actually you need to understand first what the ammeter reading means

[lukedukem]

this thread is to explain you how the ammeter works

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0.html

beside that, I explain there how to make an upgrade on a Mopar way... but actually you need to understand first what the ammeter reading means

  thanks nacho

[Fred]

Well if it did it would be called a stopper would it?      

[Hard Charger]

I got in my 69 yesterday and went to start it and it kept turning over. I even turned the ignition switch to off and pulled the key out. WTF. It finally started and I could here the starter still going. It finally stopped after a coupl,e more seconds. Any one have a clue. I tried searching but nothing. When I put the key back in it, I turn it off and it shut down the engine. I never noticed this before and it just started doing this. The only thing I changed was that I plugged that plug back in my tranny, the one for the reverse lights. But I think that had nothing todo with it.
Part2: when driving too my cousins house, my wife noticed smoke coming out of the dash. I pulled over and it stopped, wasn't that much.  No smell. But some of the gauges were a little foggy at first. But they all still work. I've searched about this issue and still am not sure if these two are connected. It's a first for both.


Luke

solenoid problem. next time hit it and it may shut off.  a bad relay would most likely spark or trip a fuse.