Who wants to Megasquirt, full sequential fuel/ spark a 68 charger! This Guy!!

[Dino]

Hummina...hummina...hummina...   

And I thought I had my hands full with a 6-pack. Very nice work. You have mad silly skills.   

Now now Bill, six packs are not that hard, just go one can at a time.   

[Stormin]

Great info. Got me inspired to build one of these systems.

[HeavyFuel]

I was intrigued by the title of this thread......so I clicked,  and it was the the last thing I understood.  I feel like a 'tard.

[redmist]

More progress today.

I received the pulley/crank trigger wheel from Rolling_thunder today!  Thanks again man, this is saving me a ton of work. It is literally exactly how I would have done it.

So the Megasquirt needs to know exactly where the engine is in its operation. It does this via two sensors for a true full sequential setup. One sensor is the crank sensor, and the other is the cam sensor.

First the crank sensor I am using is a VR sensor off of a ford. the wheel I am using is a 36-1 wheel. Why is it called a 36-1 wheel? Well, because it has a total of 36 teeth (One each 10 degrees of crank), but one is missing!  36 minus 1. The VR sensor knows where the crank is by logging where the missing tooth is, and then each tooth after that for a full 360 degrees of logging.

Thats how the crank sensor works, here is what it looks like working.

I ghetto'ed the pulley and wheel onto a Dawalt drill, and hooked the VR sensor into the Megasquirt via my Stim board. If you remember back, the Stim board is for testing outputs, and inputs, but it has provisions for hooking your real time sensors up to it also.




Next I opened Tuner Studio and used the Tooth Logger function to check my VR sensor and tooth wheel by turning the drill next to the VR sensor in a vise. Sure enough!! i got a good log, and it shows it on the log screen!



What you are seeing is all the teeth passing the VR sensor. the tall tooth in the log is the missing tooth on the wheel.

While I was running the toothed wheel with the drill, I saw my Injector and spark LED's light up on my stim board, and my notional engine was running!!!



What's the cam sensor for??


The cam sensor tells the engine where it is in 4-stroke operation. The cam sensor is a Hall-affect sensor, and works in the same way as the crank sensor. It's looking to log a tooth pattern. Except the tooth pattern for the cam sensor is a simple half moon. (One big tooth) This tells the engine where it is in the Compression/Exhaust stroke.

So two simple sensors tell the engine exactly where it is in it's total state of operation.

Sounds complicated,

It's not!

I will be able to adjust timing on the fly via a laptop, or my phone...  And that is what makes Megasquirt so awesome!

[ChargerD100]

I can't wait to see it on the road! and I actually live in town now, you free this weekend?

[Bob T]

Great thread Redmist 
Busy hands

[six-tee-nine]

Yes, modern engine technology is a whole new world....

I'm seeing the cam / crank sensors for a couple of years now, and also in the newer diesel engines. If you want to inject diesel fuel in a cylinder at 2000 kg/cm² with up to 7 injection shots per cycle you need electronics.
The days of a good old in-line injection pump are long gone

[redmist]

I can't wait to see it on the road! and I actually live in town now, you free this weekend?

Sorry sir, I get to work all weekend. Bah!!!

[Tilar]

Wow, Interesting stuff!         

[GPULLER]

WOW, this is some cool stuff, great work.  Now I'm on the Megasquirt site reading...

[redmist]

More junkyard shopping today, and walked out with a bunch of pigtails for $1  

I averaged the cost out on them for my cost sheet anyhow to make it more realistic.

And here is where the air goes in, it's a Billet 92mm Throttle body as found on Ebay... It was advertised as "Precision Machined" and as long as your machine is a hammer, chain, and dull chisel, than I guess the description was correct! HA!! Honestly for the price, I can get over the crappy corners, and end mill chatter. This thing will work just fine for my application, I found many LS guys running them with no problems. you can see the new TPS sensor, and IAC motor installed in the side of the throttle body. I should have purchased these from the junkyard. They are in every crappy Saturn in the yard!  Oh well....



At this point I figured I had better see how much I am into this setup so far. Keep in mind, the only thing left to purchase is plug wires, and an intake filter setup. I am sure other little things will pop up, and I will keep track of them. Here is a picture of everything I have assembled, sourced from the yard, or purchase so far for the project. The only thing missing is my fuel lines, and fittings, I purchased those today, but they are included in the cost breakdown.



Total so far spent on the EFI Project.

Megasquirt MS3 EMS Kit                       $378.00
Megasquirt MS3X Expansion                  $ 90.00
Megasquirt relay board kit                    $ 73.00
Megasquirt relay pre-fab cable              $ 85.00
12' Automotive labeled wire for MS3       $ 46.00
12' Automotive labeled wire for MS3X     $ 48.00
Megasquirt Jimstim 1.5                         $ 65.30
Megasquirt JimstimX test board             $ 44.00


32lb/hr Ford Raptor 6.2 Injectors x8      FREEEEE!!!!
Walbro Fuel Pump 255lph                     $109.00
Inlet/outlet-install kit                          $ 24.80
Frozen Boost -8 PTFE line 25'                $ 87.25
-8 fittings 90's, 45's etc 10 total           $ 90.00
Aeromotive 13301 Return regulator        $131.95
-8 AN to male 3/8" x 4                         $ 11.80
-8 Billet Fuel filter                               FREEEEEE!!!

Edelbrock Fuel Rail Pro-flo XT Kit          $115.95
Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT Manifold              $395.90


Jeep Camshaft sychronizer                   $ 30.95
Throttle Position Sensor                       $ 32.00
Idle Air stepper valve                          $ 52.00
Coil pack pigtails LS style X2                 $ 64.00
IAC, Injectors, TPS, CPS Pigtails            $ 16.00  Junkyard
Crankshaft Sensor                              $  5.00  Junkyard
LQ9 Coils, brackets, wires 2003 Yukon    $ 50.00  Junkyard
Manifold temp sensor and pigtail             $  3.00  junkyard



92mm Billet LS2 Throttle Body                 $145.00


TOTAL SO FAR!!                                  $2193.90

Still less than a FAST TBI system, but not by much. Keep in mind, my setup is lightyears over the FAST setup, and it's even far beyond the Edelbrock Offered Pro-Flo kit.

I can still sell my Carb, intake, distributor, MSD 6AL box, and nice new plug wires to get around $500-600 back.

My goal is to be under $2000 in the end after it's all said and done. So far so good!    

[Paul G]

Great thread. I will keep following till the vids on you tube finish the story.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Should be a kick ass ride when it is done bro!   

I sold all (most) of my MS stuff back when I sold my 512" stroker - I was using a Edelbrock Victor EFI intake =  I like the new pro-flo style intake better.

[Cooter]

This is as close as anyone's come to my $1500.00 total bill. i see this might be totally doable for me in the long run for PORTED fuel injection.
They can keep the "Electronic carbs" that TBI units are.

[Dino]

So uhm...how much for the whole thing...for a customer who may want that bolted to a 440?   

[RIDELIKEHELL]

ya what Dino said ..............that would look sick under the hood of my 68 

[redmist]

Ha!

I have had a bunch of requests to build the adapter for the cam sensor, but I got guns to build on our equipment. I may contact AndyF of Arengineering and see if he would be interested in building them.

I got the pulley and trigger wheel mounted last night, and have started brainstorming ideas for a sensor mount. As soon as that is done, I will take the MS Unit, and a laptop outside and hook the Crank Sensor to Tuner Studio and dial in my initial timing before I swap over the whole unit to EFI. I plan to slowly integrate the EFI onto the car, but going system by system as best I can.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

That's one cool looking setup!   

[Cooter]

What SUCKS is the factthat the boss got aa lathe in the shop and refuses to hook it up. I could have those Cam sensor adapters whipped up in no time, but can't due to a lathe that is just sitting.

[redmist]

Started working on my crank trigger bracket. I found a nice .095 steel shipping bracket out back of our shop, and started cutting. I drilled and tapped holes in the side of my 440source billet timing pointer, and mounted the angle bracket to it. I need to trim the shaded areas, TIG weld the top on, and drill mounting holes for the Crank VR sensor. I might make it go fast looking with some holes or something also. It will make more sense when I can show it farther along.

I also ordered some 440source fabricated valve covers, My awesome MOPAR covers don't have enough space on them to mount the coil packs, and I want them mounted on the covers, so the Mopars get sold, and I would hack up a set of 440source covers for the project!

[jt66383]

Awesome thread!!!!!!!  This is exactly what I have been looking all over the web for. I have a 66 Charger, 383 4 speed. The drive line is fresh, motor is warmer over, nothing wild, but healthier than stock.  The motor is sit in the car waiting for the next step, I don't currently have an intake or carb, and was planning on an EZEFI setup, but like you didn't like the restrictions.  I read the Mega squirt book( Building your own EFI) over the Christmas holidays. I will be following this with great interest. Can't wait till you fire it up.

Great work.

Cheers
Jeff 

[redmist]

Well I am sick today, so work was rough, but I did get a little done on my project.

I welded the Crank VR sensor, blasted it, and test mounted it for the first time to establish hole location for the sensor. I still have a gusset to weld to the top when it is all finished, and I will also speed hole it most likely.



From the top:    




From the bottom:




I need to clearance a little section of of my windage tray that is sticking out from between the pan and the block in order to get my bottom screw in the bracket. No biggie....


I have the VR Sensor at the number 5 tooth in relation to the missing tooth while the engine is at top dead center. What this does in let the Megasquirt ECU know where it is in relation to crank angle. For example, the missing tooth passes over the VR sensor, and the MS reads it. It now looks for 5 more teeth in my case, and when it sees that, it bases its ignition timing off of that 5th tooth.

For example:

My car will be setup with 25deg initial timing, and a maximum of 35-40 based on tune. If I were to place the VR sensor before 30 degrees, or tooth three past the missing tooth, the MS3 would not have enough time to compute timing for my application. Another note is that the VR sensor is not all that important to be perfectly mounted in this relation. If it's WAY off, or a few degrees off, it can simply be adjusted in the software.

Here is some reading on the subject:   http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/trigger-wheel.html

[redmist]

Found this on another forum!!!!

SHADOWDASH MS for Android. You can port over your realtime data via bluetooth to emulate your setup on your laptop....      


You don't find this kind of stuff with the Edelbrock/FAST/Holley Systems. Open Source is awesome!

[redmist]

Received my 440source fabricated valve covers. These are REAL NICE! I was surprised. They also have plenty of room on them for mounting the coil brackets, and my breather/PCV.

The package is starting to look real modern. I am guessing those that see this setup are going to have a hard time figuring out what the heck kind of engine I am running in this Charger.

[mauve66]

as soon as you start makeing them for the rest of us i will figure out a way to buy the sixpak throttle bodies and we will be golden.....................