Who wants to Megasquirt, full sequential fuel/ spark a 68 charger! This Guy!!

[RIDELIKEHELL]

Looks very yummy!!! Awesome work 

[Dino]

You know, I think a nice old carb and a round air filter would look much better, I'll take all that junk off your hands, no need to thank me.   

[Paul G]

I am waiting for the kit to come out so we can all have "Red Mist Mega Squirt" injected 440's.

[JimG]

Redmist:

Strong work, man!

I joined this forum specifically to be able to post to this thread. I'm doing a similar install (MS 3.57, sequential, LS series truck coils) on a 493 RB. Mine is in a '67 R/T.

I'm using a Victor 440 EFI intake with a FAST 4-barrel throttle body.

You're quite a bit further along than I am, and you're getting a lot done in a short amount of time. Having said that, I do have my crank sensor mounting bracket made, and my trigger wheel is done (exactly like yours). I have mounted the assembly to a spare engine and have tested it while hand spinning it. Soon, I'll do what you did and mount it on my engine that's in the car and test it with the tooth logger.

You have some great ideas. I already had obtained a Lean Burn distributor and some parts from McMaster-Carr to use in gutting it and converting it into a cam sensor. After seeing your idea though, I scrapped my plan and will copy your idea (you know what they say: plagiarism saves time) :-) I'm an electrical engineer at a company that builds custom machinery, and I have a ME friend here will model a spacer in Solid Works, then a machinist buddy to make it for me.

I also like your plan for mounting the coils better than what I had come up with, although I hadn't planned on buying more valve covers.

You haven't mentioned two things I've been pondering:

1 - What are you doing for a fuel system? I had originally planned to add an external pump, but after reading more, I decided that wasn't the best route, for various reasons that I'd be happy to expound upon.  I bought a fabricated tank from Rock Valley. It looks great. If someone was a good fabricator (unlike me) and knew what to do, I think they could whip up something similar and save a few bucks. In my case case, since I'd be paying a fabricator anyway, and having to purchase all the parts, I think I came out ahead going this route. My car already has a 3/8 delivery line and a 5/16 return line. The jury is still out on whether this is sufficient, as those in the know don't agree on whether a 5/16" return line might cause a restriction and cause the fuel pressure run higher than the regulator setting.

2 - Where are you going to mount the controller? Behind the glove box, or somewhere on the inside of the firewall would be a great place, but there isn't room there in my case. Under the passenger seat is where I'm looking now, but then you're faced with getting those two huge cables routed to the firewall area without the appearance of two dead Boa Constrictors under your carpet. Admittedly, I haven't spent much time on this matter, and the solution might be easier than I think.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to document all this stuff, and for being so willing to share your ideas. I look forward to this thread progressing to the "I did it!" stage as the months (or in your case, weeks) progress.

Jim

[DC_1]

Looks like a great setup!

[redmist]

JimG

Thanks for the compliments!!

Fuel will be served through two -8 lines fed by a 255lph pump found in Miata's and the likes.  I have already started fabrication on the system, but always wait till I am done to post it. I have cannibalized a 1/2" Pickup standard fuel sending unit found in the standard stock tank as an upgrade. I have remade the flat round mounting flange and will be TIG welding -8 male conectors to the top of the new plate, and Tig welding the 1/2" pickup, sending unit, and return line on the bottom. It should be a drop in unit for the stock fuel tank.

I plan to upgrade the tank down the road to get some baffling in it.

Mounting the ECU is going to be in the glove box with the factory box portion removed. Most likely I will mount it to the heater box area. I was playing with location last night. One thing to keep in mind is to make sure you can still hook up a Jimstim, and a StimX board for testing purposes without having to take the ECU out of it's mounting location!!

Look forward to seeing your work sir!!

[JimG]

Redmist:

I can post some pictures of my tank for you if you think you could pick up any ideas from it. I have no idea how similar our gas tanks are, but the principle of baffles and such seems to transcend any odd tank shapes.

And what Jeep, specifically, did is that cam sensor supposed to fit? The counter jockey will want to know model, year, engine, etc.

Thanks again, man!

Jim

[redmist]

Sure thing, post up the tank. the more info the better...

As far as the CPS, you will want a "Cam Synchronizer" for a 2003 Jeep Wrangler with a 4.0 I6. My local parts house wanted $90 for one. I ordered it off summit for much less:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-689-200


I had to purchase a pigtail from the Dodge dealer for it. $36 We don't have any Wranglers in the junkyards here. I was still into it less than what the parts house wanted for one, and I had the pigtail in the end.

[70SublimeSuperbee]

Redmist Your set up is Awesome  and are all the other members that have shared . This is my first reply to a post ever. I am a new member. I am going to try this for the sending unit (Airtex E7072S Fuel Pump And Hanger With Sender) from a 92 jeep Cherokee eBay $92.89 , It looks like it should work well in my 70 superbee gas tank. 

[redmist]

I think you could make that work!!

Folks I had to re-host the pictures. Don wurry I feex!!

[JimG]

Fuel tank pictures, as promised. Sorry it took so long. I had a space in the filename, and the attachment bombed when I tried to post. Took me a while to figure that one out.

Initially, I misspoke when I said I bought a "fabricated" fuel tank. This is actually a Spectra tank, modified for EFI.

[JimG]

More tank pictures.

[JimG]

And more

[JimG]

Finally, one more:

[Rolling_Thunder]

Did almost the same thing for my EFI in my 68...     but I still use the stock sending unit for the return fuel line.

[redmist]

Very nice on the tank!!! If I start pushing this car through auto cross or the likes, I will do something like you have pictured. For now, I am more on a smoke show/power tour build. Nice work on the tank!



Updates...

and related to the fuel system so it fits right in with the above posts.

I took a piece of .065 sheet, and cut a circle to match the stock sending unit piece. I then used some -8 weld in bungs, and fit them inside the circle.



Flipped it over, and this is what I am working with.





Ready for some TIG action. this will be a simple fuse weld, No filler rod. The area has enough to work with, without the rod. I simply start a puddle in Pulse mode at 55 amps, and run it one pulse per second. When the puddle bridges the gap, I move the puddle each second as I work around the bung. I am no expert welder, but the pulse mode, and fusion welds I have down fairly well.




All TIG'd in.



Flipped over, and test fit with the -8 fittings that will be my pickup, and return through the stock tank hole.




And here is the total package idea I am going for. I cannibalized an aftermarket 1/2 pickup sending unit, and will be welding the pickup on the bottom of my new plate. I also got some 3/8" brake line for a return that will also be welded to the bottom. In the end it will be a double -8 pickup and return that can be dropped in the factory tank, and will retain the factory style fuel sending unit!


Assuming I don't screw it up from here, it should work good.

All mocked up in place to see what idea I am going with here.




I also mounted my ECU against the heater box. I went half way in and out of the glove box from top to bottom so it could be accessed from either the bottom, or through the glove box. I also found that the notch related to the factory fuse box gave just enough clearance that I could still hook up both my Jim-Stim board, and my Stim-X for testing. This will be great for testing or finding problems without having to drop the ECU out of it's location!!! It's tight, but should work just fine!

[ChargerD100]

 

[JimG]

Redmist:

Good work and great documentation as always! 

I really hope to retain my glovebox, so I'm going to spend some time working toward that end. I might come to the same conclusion as you; I have no idea how a '67 Coronet differs from a '68 Charger in the underdash area. Before I do any of that, I need to clean up 25 years of add-on wiring under the dash as a stereo, and electric fuel pump, a tachometer, a wideband meter, and who-know-what-else was added on throughout the years. I bought a couple of mini fuse blocks and will add those and get the wiring in decent shape, then I can turn my attention to adding even more stuff under the dash.

On another forum (I can probably find a link if necessary) I read that Megasquirt has trouble dealing with a situation where the 12v supply briefly drops out as the ignition switch is moved from "start" to "run". Possible solutions included a fat capacitor and an add-on ignition switch. Neither appeals to me. I was just wondering if you had addressed this, if you were aware of it, or even if it was an issue on your car.

Rock on!

Jim

[redmist]

I did read about that... I didn't find many instances of it, but not many installations are in these old cars. It looks like the more modern cars get the Megasquirt as an aftermarket solution. It looks like they have a plug ready unit that connects directly to the Mini Cooper S ECU harness!! My wife might be getting a megasquirt for her autocross sessions! Launch control would be awesome on the Mini! Swap the factory ECU back over for emissions.

I will just have to get that far along and see what happens.

[redmist]

Ok kids!! Lets keep working on this before we run out of steam.

Today I went back to the junkyard in search of three main things. An external MAP sensor, A GM Temp Sensor, and a throttle cable that will work with the LS style throttle body.

ENTER THE SATURN!!!  

Now I don't know if these cars are just junk or what, but it's safe to say the junkyard here is LOADED with them! And that's good in my case, and here's why:

This is a picture of a 2003 Saturn throttle body with the 4-banger in it.



Wow redmist that looks like crud! Hold on a second, lets check this thing out. What you are seeing is a TPS Sensor, an Idle air control valve, an external LS style MAP sensor, and behind the block a Temp sensor. and also a long throttle cable that will hopefully reach my peddle.

Here are all the sensors I pulled off of this car. I could have also pulled the Intake air temp sensor, but i already have two of those.





And here is all my parts from today's trip.

Two MAP sensors, two Temp sensors, a TPS, an IACV, and a Throttle cable, PLUS All the pigtails!



Total out the door was $16!!!!  Now we are saving some money. If you remember back, I had purchased a new IACV, and the valve alone cost me $48...  My point is, this can all be done super cheep, and the junkyard is your friend.

Here is the ACDELCO external MAP sensor installed in the hole that the Edelbrock intake comes pre-made for.



What about the MAP sensor that's already on the Megasquirt? Why two MAP sensors??  The reason I am running two sensor is so I can have constant barometric pressure correction. I am going to hook the GM MAP on the manifold to the MS3X, and the on board map I am going to leave open to atmosphere. I can set the sample rate for whatever I want. For example, If I am climbing a pass in the car, I can have the MS3X Sample the on board MAP for Barometric pressure, and have it make changes as altitude increases. Set the sample rate for something like every two minutes or so....  Flippin cool Eh!!  

Lets get into wiring.

You will notice the green relay board on the firewall. This is a megasquirt item that makes installs in our older cars silly easy. It has a header on it that I run all my input wires to. So all my sensors will simply terminate right at that box. It has the relays and fuses already built in for fuel pump, main power, and injector power. There is a large cable that connects from the board to the MS3 unit onder my dash. I did have to cut a large hole  (1") in the firewall for it to pass through but who cares.. shes not stock, and she's nothing special!!




And here is the wires we are running tonight: CRANK VR sensor, IACV, TPS, Coolant temp, and Intake temp.



I purchased a large bundle of wire from Megasquirt that has all the nice wires I need. They are labeled the entire length of the wire, and as you will also notice, the wires match the colors of my GM pigtails! Talk about easy! There is enough wire here to wire up two cars.

I found a place for my Intake Air temp in the sillycone elbow of my intake. I simply cut a hole, and pressed the sensor in. This is how they are held in on the Saturns and other GM cars. Just make sure you don't cut your hole to big. You want it to seal up, so it should be a firm press fit.




And I started running my wires, and building my input harness.




that's all for tonight!

[JimG]

Wow, Redmist, I must be psychotic! I logged on to ask about wiring and where you'd chosen to punch holes in the firewall for the cables and Viola! There it is. I only see the mainboard cable - have you gotten the other one in yet? I plan to find grommets to get a tight seal between the firewall and the cable. I plan to see if a commonly available PCV grommet will do the trick. I would have preferred to use a big multiconductor plug (like the factory would have used) but after an exhaustive search, I never found an aftermarket one that was watertight like you'd find in an OEM installation, so I gave up and decided to use grommets. 

I now have my trigger wheel and sensor mount complete (with the exception of installing a plug on the end of the sensor pigtail, making it quick disconnect) and mounted on my spare engine. I'll get pictures up within a few days. It's not as pretty as yours, but I think it will suffice.

My Jeep cam sensor came in and my buddy will start modeling the spacer soon.

I'm waiting as long as I can before I disable the car, as cruise-in season has started. I had planned to be much farther along at this point but [insert lame excuses here].

Good work! Keep it coming.

Jim

[Dino]

Seriously if you ever decide to make kits for others, gimme a call!   

Awesome work.

[redmist]

JimG,

I am doing all the inputs first, then I will move onto the outputs. The only two inputs I can't directly wire to the relay board is the external MAP, and the CAM sensor. Those are added functions of the MS3X Expansion board, and will have to be routed to the MS3X instead of the MS3.  And you are right, an automotive application specific plug would be much better. the DB-37 Connectors or sorta Meh, but people say they are fine. I am also a little concerned about the bulkhead connector on the relay board. If I have any problems with the install I am guessing it will be from this area. Again, I would have liked to see an over built connector here. Honestly I might down the road build another board, and solder the wires directly to it instead of using the bulk head connectors. You mentioned an OE type connector available, and I plan to source one from the junkyard. TONS of firewall plugs for the taking that could be used to simply pass wires through the firewall. I noticed almost every car has one that could be hacked out, and used in this application instead of the grommet pass through.  I will swap it over some day. That will be down the road however.

[mauve66]

you said the car is nothing special but with the work your doing it certainly is SPECIAL

[JimG]

OK Redmist, the way you get incredible quantities of work done is such a short period of time inspired me to finish up my crank sensor this morning.

As I stated previously, I'm not much of a fabricator, so my mind automatically came up with a "bolt together" solution. I'm using a sensor from DIY. I can add shims between the sensor and the bracket to get the desired air gap. You can see that I have a couple of copper-colored shims in there now. I intentionally made the sensor "too close" to the wheel without shims and planned to add shims to get it right. This morning, I added the QD plug to the sensor, and will add it's mate to the wiring harness when I wire the car.

I bought some 3/8" studs and coupling nuts from McMaster-Carr and replaced two of the timing cover bolts with them. The flat washer between the timing cover and the coupling nut is too big; I'll find some smaller diameter ones before I install this contraption on the engine in my car. The studs are also too long, and I'll shorten them... I just didn't have my Dremel tool with me this morning.

Jim