Who's running an overdrive manual transmission? Need advice

[jb666]

I'm toying with the idea of going to a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission...

But, with my 4.10's, running a Richmond tranny, I'd have to start out in 2nd or 3rd gear due to the ratios...

My 727 has the following gear ratios 1st: 2.45, 2nd 1.45, 3rd 1.00,
the Richmond has 1st 3.27, 2nd 2.15, 3rd 1.57, 4th 1.23, 5th, 1.00,
6th .76  Richmond 5 speeds ARE NOT over drive, they lower the first 4
and 5 is 1:1 (direct) The 6 speed has the same ratios as the 5 but 6th
IS overdrive, so if I kept the 4.10 I would need to start out in
2nd and it would still be a steeper gear.  Final drive is trans ratio
X gear ratio, 727=2.45=4.1 is 10.05:1  6 speed with 4.1= 13.4:1. The
lowest numerical gear I see for a Dana 60 is 3.54, that would give me
a 11.57 which is equal to a 4.7 gear in the rear with my 727
(animal) 5th gear would be 3.54 and 6th would be 2.69.

So, I wanted to see what your advice/experience was... 

[Troy]

Did you just calculate all that without taking your rear tire size into account?

With your torque across the power band I don't think you have to be terribly concerned with gear spread or anything like that. If you had a 4 cylinder screaming up to 9,000 RPM that only produced torque above 6,500 I'd be worried - but not so much with a Hemi.

You probably at least want an OD if you ever drive on the highway. Anything with 4.10 rear gears and a 1:1 final drive is going to SUCK on the highway (unless you're driving a 4x4 with 33" or larger tires). You'll be spinning that motor in the 3,300+ RPM range if I remember right. That rules out the Richmond 5-speed.

The Richmond is a fairly large transmission as I recall - which is why you don't see many Mopar swaps. A Passon 4-speed OD gearset or a 5-speed transmissions (if they ever become readily available) would be a better fit (I'd have to check ratios for your comparison above). A TKO600 isn't terribly bad (assuming it will hold the power) when it comes to installation. If you're going to cut any way you could also look at a T-56 from a Viper, Vette, or TransAm. With a T-56 you'll probably actually want 4.56 or higher rear end gears because the OD is insane. The closest thing to a "highway gear" for a Dana is a 3.54. With big tires and a T56 you'd be looking at some crazy final drive (like less than 2.00).

Troy

[Cooter]

All Ican say is BE CAREFUL with Low gears (IE 4.56:1) in Overdrive at Interstate speeds. Driveshaft speeds can get past 10K RPM.

Better be one helluva balance job on that driveshaft.

[jb666]

Troy --- I'm not changing my tire diameter -- It's staying the same, and those calculations were based on my current tire size.

The problem here is that the gear ratio is too low...

The TKO600 is taller from the shaft center line up , and is also square at the top.. While the Richmond isn't as tall, and is rounded, and has a better chance of fitting in the tunnel...

I've never heard of a Passon transmission before...  

[jb666]

All Ican say is BE CAREFUL with Low gears (IE 4.56:1) in Overdrive at Interstate speeds. Driveshaft speeds can get past 10K RPM.

Better be one helluva balance job on that driveshaft.

Going through the traps at 7400 RPMS with 4.30's on a 33" tire, 3% converter slippage, the driveshaft is only 7622RPMS...  I suppose if I had 4.56's and a double over drive and was doing 150MPH... Anything's possible.

[Troy]

Passon has been in the Mopar 4-speed business for a long time. They created an overdrive "gear set" that fits in a factory case. More recently, they've developed a complete 5-speed assembly with the same dimensions as stock and the same shifter location. Both have 18 spline input shafts just like the factory.
http://www.passonperformance.com/
http://www.passonperformance.com/images/stories/passon_documents/Passon_5-Speed_Flyer_2010-11-18.pdf
4speed OD gearset ($1,845):
2.66
1.59
1.00
0.80

5-speed transmission (~$4,200 including shifter):
2.64
1.92
1.40
1.00
0.70

And some more info on the Richmond/Mopar combination:
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/archive/index.php/t-1715.html
http://www.onallcylinders.com/2012/01/09/installing-a-richmond-gear-6-speed-on-a-b-body-mopar/
http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48042

Troy

[jb666]

Troy -- Excellent information, thank you!

After doing some research on the Passon unit , it really looks like this is the hot setup!!

Thanks 

[Cooter]

All Ican say is BE CAREFUL with Low gears (IE 4.56:1) in Overdrive at Interstate speeds. Driveshaft speeds can get past 10K RPM.

Better be one helluva balance job on that driveshaft.

Going through the traps at 7400 RPMS with 4.30's on a 33" tire, 3% converter slippage, the driveshaft is only 7622RPMS...  I suppose if I had 4.56's and a double over drive and was doing 150MPH... Anything's possible.

Ok......... go for it.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Ford trucks uses a 3.33 ring and pinion in the Dana 60 differential -  find a gear set if possible.   

But if you're thinking of going from your existing auto to a manual OD trans that's a different story...     Don't forget to factor in all the M/T swap parts into the cost of the Passon 4-speed. 

[BrianShaughnessy]

I'm not that certain a tko 5 speed would be your best bet with that monster blown hemi.   

For a manual...   I think your only choice would be passon which still isn't available yet...  or to cut up the floor and try a Viper T56.

The TCI 6 speed auto is a huge chunk of $$$$ but it's based on a GM 4L80 but that requires cutting up the floor also.    That would hold up but still only provide .75 OD.

If you got a good chunk of change in your 727...  I'd just go with a gear vendors (.8 OD) .   Works for my friends Hemi Road Runner... and it still runs 10s.   Even after taking the 4.30s down to 3.73s.

[moparstuart]

I'm not that certain a tko 5 speed would be your best bet with that monster blown hemi.    

For a manual...   I think your only choice would be passon which still isn't available yet...  or to cut up the floor and try a Viper T56.

The TCI 6 speed auto is a huge chunk of $$$$ but it's based on a GM 4L80 but that requires cutting up the floor also.    That would hold up but still only provide .75 OD.

If you got a good chunk of change in your 727...  I'd just go with a gear vendors (.8 OD) .   Works for my friends Hemi Road Runner... and it still runs 10s.   Even after taking the 4.30s down to 3.73s.

I just did the viper T-56 6 speed conversion , yes have to cut the floor but you dont have to add the manual hump , and we did most of the conversion in a buddys garage in less then a weeks time .

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95382.0.html

[jb666]

I'm not that certain a tko 5 speed would be your best bet with that monster blown hemi.   

For a manual...   I think your only choice would be passon which still isn't available yet...  or to cut up the floor and try a Viper T56.

The TCI 6 speed auto is a huge chunk of $$$$ but it's based on a GM 4L80 but that requires cutting up the floor also.    That would hold up but still only provide .75 OD.

If you got a good chunk of change in your 727...  I'd just go with a gear vendors (.8 OD) .   Works for my friends Hemi Road Runner... and it still runs 10s.   Even after taking the 4.30s down to 3.73s.

I'm running a Gear Vendor's unit now on my 727...

[BrianShaughnessy]

I'm not that certain a tko 5 speed would be your best bet with that monster blown hemi.   

For a manual...   I think your only choice would be passon which still isn't available yet...  or to cut up the floor and try a Viper T56.

The TCI 6 speed auto is a huge chunk of $$$$ but it's based on a GM 4L80 but that requires cutting up the floor also.    That would hold up but still only provide .75 OD.

If you got a good chunk of change in your 727...  I'd just go with a gear vendors (.8 OD) .   Works for my friends Hemi Road Runner... and it still runs 10s.   Even after taking the 4.30s down to 3.73s.

I'm running a Gear Vendor's unit now on my 727...

Oooooooooooo....   somehow I neglected to recall that info    

Well...   really if you're just thinking of switching just to go manual... you're not gonna get any sorta useful OD improvement unless you use the T56.
With a .5 OD then you'll really be in the sweet spot with 4.10's.   

Another idea to toy with is going with a 2.77 1st gearset in the 727 and dropping down to 3.90 / 3.73 gears in the rear.   

[jb666]

I'm not that certain a tko 5 speed would be your best bet with that monster blown hemi.   

For a manual...   I think your only choice would be passon which still isn't available yet...  or to cut up the floor and try a Viper T56.

The TCI 6 speed auto is a huge chunk of $$$$ but it's based on a GM 4L80 but that requires cutting up the floor also.    That would hold up but still only provide .75 OD.

If you got a good chunk of change in your 727...  I'd just go with a gear vendors (.8 OD) .   Works for my friends Hemi Road Runner... and it still runs 10s.   Even after taking the 4.30s down to 3.73s.

I'm running a Gear Vendor's unit now on my 727...

Oooooooooooo....   somehow I neglected to recall that info    

Well...   really if you're just thinking of switching just to go manual... you're not gonna get any sorta useful OD improvement unless you use the T56.
With a .5 OD then you'll really be in the sweet spot with 4.10's.   

Another idea to toy with is going with a 2.77 1st gearset in the 727 and dropping down to 3.90 / 3.73 gears in the rear.   

I know.. I'm just tossing ideas around right now... I'd hate to go that route since I just put the 4.10's in about 3 months ago 

One thing I did learn is that the cost of doing an auto/manual swap is HUGE....

[moparstuart]

not really if you budget and be careful

[Rolling_Thunder]

not really if you budget and be careful

True -  I've done a whole swap with about $1000

[moparstuart]

not really if you budget and be careful

True -  I've done a whole swap with about $1000

here is a perfect example   

   http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95764.0.html


  or my build if your doing a 6 speed 

[Dino]

not really if you budget and be careful

True -  I've done a whole swap with about $1000

here is a perfect example   

   http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,95764.0.html


  or my build if your doing a 6 speed 

I can't wait to see the checklist for your build.  It'll be a lot of work but I'm gonna love a t-56 in my car.   

[randy73]

Nobody mentioned that the A518(46RH & 46RE) has a .69 final drive and will fit w/very little mods, plus you can have a lockup TQ convertor. I just put one in my 73 340.

Sorry OP, sometime while reading this thread, forgot you wanted a manual OD. 

[jb666]

Nobody mentioned that the A518(46RH & 46RE) has a .69 final drive and will fit w/very little mods, plus you can have a lockup TQ convertor. I just put one in my 73 340.

Sorry OP, sometime while reading this thread, forgot you wanted a manual OD. 

Don't worry about it!! I'm just hashing ideas around.... The setup I had in mind, from top to bottom was around $7k for parts alone....  So it's on the back burner and a nicely built auto is back on the front burner..