440: Asked for bottom HP & torque - need 20 HP more?

[hawaiico]

Dyno results are:   380.8 HP @ 4700 rpm, 502 lbft @ 3600.   Engine spec's are:   Demon carb 725 cfm on an intake Action plus # WND-8009, comp cam #21-222-4; .462 lift intake/218 duration, .470 lift exhaust/224 duration.   Sorry, I was off a couple of HP on my original post.
I was looking to get as much bottom end HP and Torque as I could without breaking the bank.   400 hp was my goal.   Any suggestions to add 20 more HP?   Thanks, Bob

[Duey]

Bob (?)     You're hot!   ummmm...those are very respectable numbers from the parts you put into the beast.     

500 ft-lbs aint slacking by any stretch of the imaginiation!   "Area under the curve" my friend, peak HP is one thing, total work done is another (torque integrated over the RPM range indates ability to "do work"...no one's engine sits at one RPM all day (i.e. staying at the peak HP point), HP is sometimes a "feel good" number, torque gets things moving.   If you're making a nice whack of torque throughout the entire rev range, you're "good to go!"   Can you post numbers for several RPMs?

Cheers,
Duey

[hawaiico]

That's my daughter at the Dyno shop (Product Develpment Group, Elk Grove   CA), she's a mopar fan too!  
Smeding Performance, Rancho Cordova, CA performed the machine work.
Rex Hutchison Engines, Sacramento   CA did the performance tune.
Performance Dynamics, Sacramento, CA curved the distributor.  
Here's the dyno numbers with crazy Ed at work:
3500 rpm, 498.4 lbft, 334.4 hp
3600 rpm, 502.1 lbft, 344.1 hp
3700 rpm, 500.9 lbft, 351.8 hp
3800 rpm, 497.6 lbft, 359.8 hp
3900 rpm, 488.9 lbft, 363.8 hp
4000 rpm, 478.8 lbft, 363.4 hp
4100 rpm, 470.3 lbft, 367.4 hp
4200 rpm, 470.3 lbft, 371.5 hp
4300 rpm, 458.9 lbft, 375.7 hp
4400 rpm, 447.3 lbft, 375.3 hp
4500 rpm, 438.1 lbft, 375.3 hp
4600 rpm, 431.5 lbft, 378.3 hp
4700 rpm, 424.7 lbft, 380.8 hp
4800 rpm, 414.3 lbft, 378.5 hp
4900 rpm, 402.2 lbft, 376.4 hp

[Duey]

Bob, I'd say those are good numbers given the car, std heads and cam you have.  Probably fair to say that even stock heads midly ported and matched, a longer/higher cam (say about 225-230 @ 50 and .480-.500 lift) and 800-ish carb would put you in the 450-475 hp territory no problems.

p.s.  I like the Plum Crazy engine block!
Cheers,
Duey

[firefighter3931]

It needs more cam for sure. The hp peak is coming in below 5000....extend the powerband another 700 rpm and it will improve significantly.     A little head porting would help it a bunch along with a good valve job. A 17/8in primary tube header will also help the hp #'s and have no affect on bottom end power. A performer rpm or street dominator intake would be a step in the right direction.

Ron

[Chryco Psycho]

 
The cam is too small even for a mid range torque engine , intake & possibly a larger carb as well will pick it up 

[morepower]

great lookin motor

[hawaiico]

More details:   First time engine rebuilder here, I asked for low end power, the CompCam sales repr came up with this solution and mix.     

Compression 9.23:1 w/ Keith black Hypereutectic pistions
Heads bowl ported w/2.14"-1.81" valves installed
Weiand Action+Plus intake
CompCam Etreme Energy rated at 1,300 to 5,600 rpm

[firefighter3931]

More details:   First time engine rebuilder here, I asked for low end power, the CompCam sales repr came up with this solution and mix.     

Compression 9.23:1 w/ Keith black Hypereutectic pistions
Heads bowl ported w/2.14"-1.81" valves installed
Weiand Action+Plus intake
CompCam Etreme Energy rated at 1,300 to 5,600 rpm

Based on what you asked for, the sales rep did quite well. This motor has lots of bottom end power and should be fun to drive on the street. If you have a mild stall converter and mild rear end gearing, this motor will work fine. A bigger cam will make more hp but will push the powerband up higher....which could end up being a negative thing depending on the rest of you car's setup. I would run it as is and see how you like it....it might just surprise you. Torque is way more important on the street than horsepower.....you need lotsa TQ to get that heavy car moving. It's easy enough to swap out the cam at a later date if you decide you need more.

Out of curiosity, what is the rest of the (car's) combo ? weight ? stall speed ? Gearing ? tire diameter ?

Ron

[Chryco Psycho]

you can stay in the same duration area but increase the lift with an Engle cam , it will pick up especially with some mild head porting

[hawaiico]

The stock heads were bowl ported and polished and valve size increased.  Smeding did the work. 
Converter is 500 to 800 rpm over stock.
Rear ration 3.23:1
Tire P275-60R15
The Dyno guy says I have run out of carb, that's why the HP leveled out.  If this is true, will going to an 850cfm carb increase the HP without changing the bottom ft-lb?  What do you think?  Bob

[firefighter3931]

The stock heads were bowl ported and polished and valve size increased.   Smeding did the work.  
Converter is 500 to 800 rpm over stock.
Rear ration 3.23:1
Tire P275-60R15
The Dyno guy says I have run out of carb, that's why the HP leveled out.   If this is true, will going to an 850cfm carb increase the HP without changing the bottom ft-lb?   What do you think?   Bob

A 3.23 gear with a 28in tire is effectively a 2.99 final drive ratio. You want as much bottom end power as possible to get that car moving. The cam you've got is well matched up for this car, inmo. The action plus is a dual plane intake manifold with a divider down the center which isolates one side of the engine from the other....basiicly it's like having 2 4cylinder motors being fed by 2 2bbl carburators. In that scenerio, a larger carb than would otherwise be required to feed that mill is needed.

A single plane intake manifold, by design allows both banks of the engine to draw from all 4 barrels, so it can get away with less carb. Here's what i would do: get a 1in open spacer and install it between the carb and intake manifold. This will allow the whole motor to draw from all 4 venturis and increase plenum volume which may very well extend the powerband several hundred rpm. This is a cheap mod ($30.00) and could very well deliver some added power....maybe enough to push you over the 400hp threshhold you're looking for. a bigger carb will ultimately make more top end power but low end response will suffer...throttle response will be softer; it's a tradeoff.

Ron

[hawaiico]

Thanks, that makes alot of sense!!   This will also help with my fuel manifold clearance issues.  Bob

[firefighter3931]

The only thing i might add is to use a phenolic spacer which is made of a composite material. This will also insulate the carb from conductive manifold heat and keep the fuel cooler and the intake charge denser....which makes more power. Summit racing carries these spacers.  Good luck Bob, keep us updated.

Ron

[Steve P.]

Hey Bob, what happened to you?? We are waiting to hear how you made out.   I know, I know. The motor went into the car and now your enjoying it too much to stop and give us the skinny.. 

[hawaiico]

Thanks for asking.  I have another post with an inquiry about going to a different cam.  Recommendations from the board say my cam is too small, more for RV.  I'm considering changing to Engles K56 or K58.  It's all good and  never done.  I'm sure U know the feeling.
Regards, Bob

[FJ571440B]

I found this post quite useful for a 440 street build. I realize it is about 6-8 months old though,so hopefully someone will chime in that was involved in it.
I am looking for very similar results for a 69 383,with KB pistons and around the same compression and head set-up.I also will be running it in a 71 Charger with atleast 3.23's possibly 55's. Anyone have any suggestions on cams,intakes,converters,etc. for a 383 to achieve about the same results? I will be running the 1 7/8 hedders because they are laying around basically. Much appreciated.Thanks 

[SeattleCharger]

     nice looking engine,  purple and chrome       and lots of torque