Bodywork 101 - Welding small rustholes? Replacement panel pricing?

[Nickrc3]

Several months back I decided to strip my 68' Charger down and initiate the restoration-hopefully by myself. 
Brief history - Purchased in 1976 for $125.00, she's my first car at age 16, so it definitely has sentimental value. Being young and dumb I stripped the original engine out and many other original components (interior is from a 69'), so she's a non-number matching car, however, it is a factory 4-speed.
I actually painted her (deck stripe and all) in 82'. Eight coats of R4 lacquer, each coat wet-sanded. Amazing what can be accomplished with two cases of cold beer and four of your buddies on a Saturday afternoon.

She was a real beast in her day - 440 six-pak, balanced & blueprinted by Russ's Auto (Hollywood, Fla.), 67' - 914 heads, ported w/oversized valves & 410 Dana. Being a punk kid with no experience in 1/4 racing, I ran a 13.1 E.T. with street tires and missing 3rd gear (Hollywood Raceway circa 1983).

So, the car basically sat in this position, covered for the next 28 years - college, career, home, family, and now approaching retirement.


What the engine looked like after lifting the hood from its hibernation - . I did remove and store the original air cleaner w/carburetors years back.

Interior shot before gutting:


In a matter of a couple months, working weekends, I was able to strip the vehicle down. She's now a rolling shell. I may remove the doors tomorrow.


My rust issues -

-Oh, yes, that's an authentic beer bottle dated 1976. For some odd reason, the local bar sold us teenagers bottled Coors only!

So, this leads to my thread question. I have Hobart 140 MIG w/ gas attachment-can small rust holes be effectively welded close, ground flush and feathered with filler?

The larger rust area would obviously require a metal patch.


Other questions: Who offers the best pricing on AMD components -Roseville, 521 Restorations, Columbia? I plan on attending the Carlisle Mopar show this July. Generally, would this event offers better deals on replacement panels?
I shall need quarters, floorboards, rear valance, trunk, support braces, rear spring braces etc. Though not bad, I'll probably replace both fenders and the deck lid. I'm figuring around 5K$?

TH

Thanks Fellows.

[Dmichels]

Great story
I have tried to weld rust holes shut You will find the hole is much bigger then you think. It has rusted from the inside out. It is paper thin around that small hole. Do yourself a favor and cut out the bad stuff, then cut a patch and weld it in. It is much quicker then chasing a hole.
Dave

[Bob T]

Good story mate, pretty cool you still have your Charger after all these years. I think there's a member on here that is an AMD agent, maybe autodynamics ?,, not too sure, cant remember offhand, likely someone else will chime in. 

[cdr]

jeff has great price & very helpful  http://www.521restorations.com/

[Troy]

If there are 20 small holes within about a foot or so you can pretty much bet that the inside is rusted out and it will take 10 times longer to fill/grind all those little holes than it will to install a patch. Not only that, but the repair will be ugly, hard to finish, and very noticeable later on. I did this. I also did patches before realizing that patching one panel in five spots was more work than replacing the entire panel. With the rust I can see on your car you'll be replacing a lot of full panels. Lining them all up will be fun but you'll know everything is new and solid.

Filling a single trim hole makes perfect sense.

You can save money on shipping by buying at a show BUT you need to pre-order because not all vendors take every part to a show OR they may only take a couple and sell out before you arrive. If you order in bulk from the same vendor you can generally save a lot on shipping and get the parts well before any shows you may attend. There are at least three AMD dealers on this site and all seem to offer very competitive prices.

About the car: was it a 383 4-speed? What was the original color? It's a reasonably rare car. If you don't mind, contact me or "Dans 68" with any information you have so we can put it in the registry.

Troy

[b5blue]

As someone without the 5G's for replacement sheet metal I can say for certain Troy is right! Dig deep and really check for rust behind what you see outside. Pull the door panels and check inside, check inside around the door opening where the rear quarters end as rust forms around the inside of the corner and the jam to quarter seam. 

[Troy]

Looking a bit more, the doors can probably be patched. If the front fenders are ok in the nose area they can be patched at the back. The rear cross member, rear valance, tail panel, trunk pan, trunk extensions, and trunk gutters are gone. That also likely means the area around the rear window is shot so plan on a dutchman panel as well. The seams where the wheel houses connect to the trunk pan are gone. The inner wheel houses could probably live with a patch on the lower 4-6" but it will be easy to replace the full outer if you have to pull the quarters off (I can't tell how bad they are). Looks like the front and rear floors are also bad. AMD has a 1-piece trunk floor (front) that a lot of people really like. You'll have to cut it to add the 4-speed hump though. If you only replace each side you'll need 4 pieces. I can't tell how bad the rockers or roof are.

Troy

[NHCharger]

I spent a year doing bodywork on my 68 Charger (still at it actually). Forget trying to weld in the small rust holes. All the metal surrounding the hole will be very thin and you'll just end up blowing a bigger hole in the metal. You will want to cut the area around the holes back to the good metal and then weld a small patch in. It will take longer to do it this way but will be worth it in the long run.
BTW, I have a Hobart 140 welder, love it.

[Nickrc3]

Thanks for the information.

About the car: was it a 383 4-speed? What was the original color? It's a reasonably rare car. If you don't mind, contact me or "Dans 68" with any information you have so we can put it in the registry.

Troy, actually I never realized the rarity of the vehicle before I joined DC.com. She is a 383, 4-speed, 2-barrel and I have the Broadcast sheet and fender tag. However, she's so far from that, I really have minimal interest in restoring those qualities.

Yes, dumb move chopping it up. Back in the mid-seventies the Philly/South Jersey areas were loaded with inexpensive musclecars/parts, as gas wars and insurances created havoc.
At the time Dad absolutely forbid an engine larger than the 383 2-bbl, (which in retrospect, saved my life), as he had this in his Chrsyler Newport and loved it.
It didn't take me long to simply leave the car at my girlfriend's house and begin the transformation with saved paper route/lawn mowing monies.
I located a complete 440-6bbl. engine, Dana 60, and rear springs (The 383 was left behind her house, covered.
Well, Uncle Sam called and off I went. Three months later I received that proverbial 'Dear John' letter from her.
Hell, the engine probably still sits there in N.J., growing strawberries out of the cylinders.

[Troy]

It doesn't matter if it's original or restored - just knowing they exist is pretty cool. I ran across one in a field a few years ago but it disappeared a few months later. I had talked to the owner but he was drunk/high every time so I never got any good information.

Depending on when your car was made, the original engine may not have even been stamped. It could be hard to prove the numbers matching part even if you were to dig it up. Sounds like it has existed longer with the 440 than the 383 so I wouldn't worry about it much.

Troy

[lexxman]

Wow its great you kept the car all these years. Make sure you keep us updated,you have alot of work to do. Enjoy

[Nickrc3]

Moving along slowly, as this is a weekend-only project. Started hammering all the dents out of the lower dash, attempting to straighten it, as she's a little twisted. Also, I'll be patching/welding all holes I drilled for a cassette and CB (1978).


Shifting attention to the rocker and door areas. My question regards welding in these small patches. Since a thin layer of filler will be used anyway, wouldn't it be easier to simply weld around the patch, holding it in position from the back?





One thing I quickly learned was to bend up a corner, hold with pliers, tack weld opposite side, then hammer/grind the tang down to fit and complete welding.





Comments please.

[NHCharger]

When I was welding in patches and could not hold it in place from the back side I would take a drill bit and tack weld the base of it to the center of the metal patch, just enough to hold it in place while I tacked the patch in.

[areibel]

When I was welding in patches and could not hold it in place from the back side I would take a drill bit and tack weld the base of it to the center of the metal patch, just enough to hold it in place while I tacked the patch in.

I use a piece of a wire hanger.  You can usually get a little bigger patch worked through the hole and then use the wire to hold it up against the hole.  tack it, then grind the wire stub off.
And another trick.  get a piece of 3/4 copper pipe about 6-8 inches long and hammer the last 2 inches closed.  Then take a file and smooth it down flat, it makes a nice backer for welding small holes up..  Eastwood and a couple other places make a ready made one, but I made several in different lengths (and I'm cheap!).

[tan top]

     

got some project going on there !!  ,    keep the pictures coming 

[Nickrc3]

When I was welding in patches and could not hold it in place from the back side I would take a drill bit and tack weld the base of it to the center of the metal patch, just enough to hold it in place while I tacked the patch in.
iagree

I use a piece of a wire hanger.  You can usually get a little bigger patch worked through the hole and then use the wire to hold it up against the hole.  tack it, then grind the wire stub off.
And another trick.  get a piece of 3/4 copper pipe about 6-8 inches long and hammer the last 2 inches closed.  Then take a file and smooth it down flat, it makes a nice backer for welding small holes up..  Eastwood and a couple other places make a ready made one, but I made several in different lengths (and I'm cheap!).

Thanks Guy's - outstanding advise and tips, especially the 3/4" copper pipe tools. Definitely have to make-up some of those.
I also take pride in doing my own work, and enjoy the cost savings, however, I not sure how I can tackle the rear frame rails. Their both in rough shape and probably need replacing. I'm somewhat intimidated with the installation, as I see these shop guy's with body jigs and other alignment aids, and here I am working on a concrete slab behind the house. I imagine when I get to that stage I may have to pony-up that $80.00 hr. labor fee.

Another question fellow's - what advantage is it to grind the patch welds down completely flush with the existing surface when a skim coat of filler and/or body/seam sealer will be utilized? Wouldn't this grinding weaken the repair, and possibly distort the repair due to the generated heat?

[areibel]

I guess my logic is if you patch it right, weld all around the patch it's going to be not only more solid but waterproof.  Anything exterior that gets coated with filler has the chance of trapping moisture, a lap or not totally sealed butt weld would let water right back where you just had to fix..
and now it's hidden again! 

[HOTROD]

And u can use magnets ,a piece of wood to brace from the back side,don't forget to primer behind the  holes !