What's the farthest you've seen a Charger torn down for resto?

[bull]

Recently saw this car being torn down by the Smith Bros. and as far as I can recall it's about as gone as any I've seen. Yet they're going to bring it back. Have any of you seen one go farther than this one?

[Ghoste]

Wow.  Lots left to put on before its a car again.

[Charger-Bodie]

My daytona was worse. Needed rear rails and inner and outer rockers.

[Bob T]

My daytona was worse. Needed rear rails and inner and outer rockers.

Really? Holy shit! That is a mammoth undertaking to say nothing of the $$ . Respect to you sir. Probably the basket case Superbird before and after pics on the back of the WWBOA brochure , looks similar rusted out pushed in hulk like the one in the ravine

[ernie]

thats not restored thats replaced

[RCKSTR]

Thats exaclty what you'd have to do to save this swamp wreck (dreamer thread)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DODGE-CHARGER-1969-NEEDS-RESTORED-ITS-ALL-THERE-318-V8-AC-/150982252607?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item23273e583f#ht_724wt_948

[Charger-Bodie]

I do body repair. Ever since and came out with all the panels I wanted to do the build one from a box thing like the mustang and fanatic guys have been doing for years. It was a rewarding project, but I'm fine with my latest project being very clean to start with.

[bull]

My daytona was worse. Needed rear rails and inner and outer rockers.

Wow. Did you post any pictures of it in that condition?

[Charger-Bodie]

My daytona was worse. Needed rear rails and inner and outer rockers.

Wow. Did you post any pictures of it in that condition?

Kinda. The pics of mine are in my " official daytona clone " thread. I don't like the structure to be that vulnerable, so its not gonna show the parts all off in the same pics. If you look thru the thread you will see what I mean.

[Indygenerallee]

My Daytona clone is pretty close to that, my roof was solid though.    



IMAG0696 by indygenerallee1, on Flickr

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Recently saw this car being torn down by the Smith Bros. and as far as I can recall it's about as gone as any I've seen. Yet they're going to bring it back. Have any of you seen one go farther than this one?

OK, what's so special about that car that warrants a restoration of such magnitude; Hemi car, 500, Daytona?

[Back N Black]

My Daytona clone is pretty close to that, my roof was solid though.    



IMAG0696 by indygenerallee1, on Flickr

How do you get the panels to line up without the car being on a jig??

[skip68]

I was gonna say the same as Dirty T.  Is it a HEMI car?   I remember talking to them on the phone a few years ago.  They said when you buy a General Lee from them it's basically a brand new 69 Dodge Charger.    Unlike BK auto.     

[1974dodgecharger]

wouldnt you just buy the whole AMD catalog and then build it from there?  Man thats pretty bad......

[nh_mopar_fan]

Ridelikehell has to be right up near the top.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,48718.0.html

[Indygenerallee]

How do you get the panels to line up without the car being on a jig??

Lot's of measurements but these cars were never put together with "extreme precision" from the factory, most had a variance of up to 1/4" when they were built.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

most had a variance of up to 1/4" when they were built.

Do you really think that they were that close?   

[Indygenerallee]

Maybe if the car was built in the middle of the week !! 

[The70RT]

Recently saw this car being torn down by the Smith Bros. and as far as I can recall it's about as gone as any I've seen. Yet they're going to bring it back. Have any of you seen one go farther than this one?

OK, what's so special about that car that warrants a restoration of such magnitude; Hemi car, 500, Daytona?

I guess if you built it yourself you know what you got.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Sinnamon looked pretty F'ed up about this time last year.

[bull]

I was gonna say the same as Dirty T.  Is it a HEMI car?   

Not sure what it is/was. Never got all the particulars.

[stripedelete]

Recently saw this car being torn down by the Smith Bros. and as far as I can recall it's about as gone as any I've seen. Yet they're going to bring it back. Have any of you seen one go farther than this one?

OK, what's so special about that car that warrants a restoration of such magnitude; Hemi car, 500, Daytona?

Wow, you read my mind on that one.  Either pretty special or they got it for free.

[70 Charger RT]

It's still not down to bare bones in this pic.

[Aero426]

When I see a car torn down this far and not on jigs and fixtures, it scares me.    There is a reason the factory used fixtures to control dimensions.   

[Mytur Binsdirti]

   

The phrase "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" sure doesn't apply there.   

[bull]

Recently saw this car being torn down by the Smith Bros. and as far as I can recall it's about as gone as any I've seen. Yet they're going to bring it back. Have any of you seen one go farther than this one?

OK, what's so special about that car that warrants a restoration of such magnitude; Hemi car, 500, Daytona?

Wow, you read my mind on that one.  Either pretty special or they got it for free.

It's a valid point but one I no longer subscribe to depending on the initial cost of the car. Granted, I probably don't have the means to do something like this but I no longer believe ANY 2nd gen Chargers should be scrapped unless most of the subframe metal is shot. When I think about mine, it needed a driver's quarter panel, the Dutchman panel, the speaker tray, the rear valance and corners, the lower passenger's quarter and the driver's outer wheel house. I paid $5,000 for it. Assuming this one fetched $1,000 or less, how much of the rest of the sheetmetal can you get for the extra $4,000? Maybe not quite all you need but I bet it's close. Be that as it may, it's a Charger and I think it should be saved for that reason alone.

[hemi68charger]

most had a variance of up to 1/4" when they were built.

Do you really think that they were that close?   

The gaps on my rear valance to end caps on my former '68 Hemi Charger R/T was 1/8" on one side and 1/16" on the other. I made sure the guy doing the panel replacement measured it out exactly..     I didn't want anything symmetrical if MaMopar couldn't do it....

[Patronus]

I found a penny wedged into the Dutchmen/quarter seam. Looked like it had been used a few times as a shim. Sure would've been crazy to watch em welded up.

[Mike DC]

Honestly I don't care about saving every old Charger as much as I used to.

I wanna see these cars survive as much as anyone else.  But IMHO reproduction parts & unibodies are more crucial to that goal than saving every rusty hulk.  A bare shell, even a rust-free one, is still a long expensive distance from a complete car. 

[bull]

Regardless of what engine combo they came with there's so many directions you can go these days I think it's a shame to junk them anymore. How much did that restomod '62 Corvette go for on Barrett? $350k? Probably very little of it was made in 1962.

[Mike DC]

 
The parts on the car don't all have to be made in the 1960s but they do have to be there. 

Crushing a nicely restored Charger is a real shame by our logic (including mine).  So is it an equal crime to crush a rusty Charger hulk + $25k worth of repro Charger parts?  What about leaving the rusty hulk alone and just not buying $25k worth of new repro parts, is that almost as bad?

What if somebody started buying complete restored cars and parting them out for a profit?  People would think that was a crime too.  But why, exactly?  Nothing is going to waste and in fact it might cause more cars to be restored in total.



I'm just rhetorically provoking thoughts here.  In this hobby we treat an assembled restored car differently than we treat the pieces individually.  Even when the stuff removed from a car is purely bolt-ons and nothing is hacked or damaged in the process.

[Indygenerallee]

I decided to build one because it was easier for myself as I know how to do all the work plus spending the money over a period of time makes it easier to afford and when it's all said and done I know what is behind every panel and every bolt. If you can afford to go buy a nice $30,000 Charger go for it but personally I get a lot of satisfaction out of doing it myself, to each their own. 

[charger_fan_4ever]

Mine got as much metal replaced as the car posted. Mind you we did one panel at a time and had it braced, so it wouldn't twist.

I'm with Indy.

Always wanted one didn't have 30-40k for a done car. Paid $5k for a project. Almost in primer and i've got about $23k tied up in it including mostly brand new interior. I know there is not 1 spec of rust to be found on the car all metal

Thing is mist "driver" projects for 10-15k really need as much metal work as the projects in boxes. Actually more work as you have to cut threw all the years of bondo and hack repairs.

As long as the frame rails and unibody are solid save it if you can. If the springs are threw the trunk and the rails all rotted let her die unless its a hem/500/ect.

You want bad look at the east coast riverbank daytona. There is nothing left,but a restoration is in the planning....

[RIDELIKEHELL]

Ridelikehell has to be right up near the top.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,48718.0.html

Well?

[Homerr]

SGTPaul over at FBBO had his '68 down to not much at one point.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?15210-SGTPaul%E2%80%99s-68-Charger-R-T-project&p=180826&viewfull=1#post180826

[RIDELIKEHELL]

SGTPaul over at FBBO had his '68 down to not much at one point.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?15210-SGTPaul%E2%80%99s-68-Charger-R-T-project&p=180826&viewfull=1#post180826

wow

[JB400]

Just out of pure curiosity, what happened to just replacing one or two pieces at one particular time?  I can understand removing some parts to fix another area, but I'm halfway under the impression that some people don't know when to stop.  Granted, there are cars that have been extreme rust buckets with not much holding them together, but in other cases, cars that seem to need only a couple patch panels get torn down to nothing recognizable.  I'll use the XP Hemi as an example.  I do recognize that car was built so AMD could market their panels, but I didn't see no need of completely dismantling it down to nothing.  I guess I'm one of the lucky ones with a low rust car, but I think I'd rather replace one part at one particular time compared to getting sawzall happy and end up with a pile of scrap metal and a dream.  I'm under the impression that replacing one part at a time would help keep the car within factory building specs.  Some of you guys aren't using a jig or anything to ensure that will remain true.  Hope some of you took plenty of measurements and photographs.

I'm always open to different building techniques, that's why I ask.

[bull]

SGTPaul over at FBBO had his '68 down to not much at one point.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?15210-SGTPaul%E2%80%99s-68-Charger-R-T-project&p=180826&viewfull=1#post180826

I think we have a winner.

[Charger-Bodie]

SGTPaul over at FBBO had his '68 down to not much at one point.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?15210-SGTPaul%E2%80%99s-68-Charger-R-T-project&p=180826&viewfull=1#post180826

I think we have a winner.

Yep. That ones even worse than mine. There is no way Id ever take it that far apart at one time. You need to keep it as together as you can as to keep the placement in control.

[moparstuart]

SGTPaul over at FBBO had his '68 down to not much at one point.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?15210-SGTPaul%E2%80%99s-68-Charger-R-T-project&p=180826&viewfull=1#post180826

I think we have a winner.

yup matts car was bad , also you should see donnies thread  on a 69 GTX and 69 satellite hes doing
both those cars are as bad as matts car .
                                http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?4258-Donny-s-1969-GTX&highlight=donnie
 

[Indygenerallee]

Just out of pure curiosity, what happened to just replacing one or two pieces at one particular time?  I can understand removing some parts to fix another area, but I'm halfway under the impression that some people don't know when to stop.  Granted, there are cars that have been extreme rust buckets with not much holding them together, but in other cases, cars that seem to need only a couple patch panels get torn down to nothing recognizable.  I'll use the XP Hemi as an example.  I do recognize that car was built so AMD could market their panels, but I didn't see no need of completely dismantling it down to nothing.  I guess I'm one of the lucky ones with a low rust car, but I think I'd rather replace one part at one particular time compared to getting sawzall happy and end up with a pile of scrap metal and a dream.  I'm under the impression that replacing one part at a time would help keep the car within factory building specs.  Some of you guys aren't using a jig or anything to ensure that will remain true.  Hope some of you took plenty of measurements and photographs.

I'm always open to different building techniques, that's why I ask

For starters you may think you have a rust free car until you start into it, then the ugly rust monster rears it's head, You have to understand rust starts from the backside and works through the panel, most framerails will look great until you get the trunk pan out and to do that if your doing a one piece trunk floor you have to remove the tail light panel,
It is far easier IMO to remove all the bad and look at what you have left media blast and then start re-assembly, I don't know why everyone thinks these cars had "exacting" tolerances when they were way, way off when built new! My 69 was complete and had just a small amount of rust around the rear wheel wells and a couple pin holes starting in the rear window corners but looking at the backside of the panel was a different story!

[bull]

I know there is not 1 spec of rust to be found on the car all metal

Really? Are you a gambling man?

[RallyeMike]

Quote from: bull on Yesterday at 11:55:45 AM
Quote from: Homerr on Yesterday at 08:11:15 AM
SGTPaul over at FBBO had his '68 down to not much at one point.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?15210-SGTPaul%E2%80%99s-68-Charger-R-T-project&p=180826&viewfull=1#post180826

I think we have a winner. Shocked

Yep. That ones even worse than mine. There is no way Id ever take it that far apart at one time. You need to keep it as together as you can as to keep the placement in control.

Holy smokes. I agree. The care it would take to keep everything aligned would be challenging to say the least.

The rust bucket jobs that people are taking on today are so far beyond what I ever imagined would be done. IT's actually pretty impressive, but it's hard to call it the same car that it was at one point.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Well?

That's a very deep subject.

[charger_fan_4ever]

I know there is not 1 spec of rust to be found on the car all metal

Really? Are you a gambling man?

Ok i lied as i wont be blasting INSIDE the front frame rails in the section under the hood then

[BlueSS454]

I would have torn mine down that far if the AMD panels were available when I had it apart.  FWIW, I had my 70 Chevelle convertible cut in half this time 2 years ago and apart even farther than that.  The only difference is, I replaced major pieces to build off of first instead of having it all out at he same time.

[DC_1]

Yep, a fair bit of dedication required to go to that level!

[HeavyFuel]

Just out of pure curiosity, what happened to just replacing one or two pieces at one particular time?  I can understand removing some parts to fix another area, but I'm halfway under the impression that some people don't know when to stop.  Granted, there are cars that have been extreme rust buckets with not much holding them together, but in other cases, cars that seem to need only a couple patch panels get torn down to nothing recognizable.  I'll use the XP Hemi as an example.  I do recognize that car was built so AMD could market their panels, but I didn't see no need of completely dismantling it down to nothing.  I guess I'm one of the lucky ones with a low rust car, but I think I'd rather replace one part at one particular time compared to getting sawzall happy and end up with a pile of scrap metal and a dream.  I'm under the impression that replacing one part at a time would help keep the car within factory building specs.  Some of you guys aren't using a jig or anything to ensure that will remain true.  Hope some of you took plenty of measurements and photographs.

I'm always open to different building techniques, that's why I ask

For starters you may think you have a rust free car until you start into it, then the ugly rust monster rears it's head, You have to understand rust starts from the backside and works through the panel, most framerails will look great until you get the trunk pan out and to do that if your doing a one piece trunk floor you have to remove the tail light panel,
It is far easier IMO to remove all the bad and look at what you have left media blast and then start re-assembly, I don't know why everyone thinks these cars had "exacting" tolerances when they were way, way off when built new! My 69 was complete and had just a small amount of rust around the rear wheel wells and a couple pin holes starting in the rear window corners but looking at the backside of the panel was a different story!

Looking at some of these 'cars' make me appreciate the shape mine was in when the resto started.

Is mine 100% rust free now?   I doubt it......the bill for my body/paint was $7K.


But I think it's good enough.  Considering my cars future is in somewhat of a controlled environment (heated garage, no driving in the rain, etc.).............even with a little rust hiding somewhere it will outlast me on this planet.

Hell, I'm 51....if the thing holds together for 15 years I'm golden.  

[Mike DC]

 
IMHO perfectionism sometimes plays a role in causing big sheetmetal teardowns. 

Some guys will to tear half the sheetmetal off a car to fix rust holes that could have been patched without such extreme hacking.  Non-body guys sometimes look at it in black & white terms where a rust area is either "fixed RIGHT" (read: entire panel replaced) or is isn't. 


IMHO there isn't enough appreciation for the subtle damage & changes that are caused every time a weld-on panel gets replaced.  Things are never 100% the same no matter how professionally the job is done.   Sometimes the "imperfections" of cut & patched areas hurt the unibody less than replacing the whole panel.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Theoretically, you can restore a care around a door hinge and not every rusty 318 piece of junk should be "restored" (ahem). The hobby does need parts cars.

[daveco]

Seem like I have heard stories of cars being torn down to the V.I.N. tag...

[MsMopar]

Hello, been a while since I have been here. Hope everyone is doing well. I think there are two different mindsets when it comes to restoring chargers. There are people like me who see any charger, no matter how bad is worth restoring. Sort of a diamond in the rough. Then there are some who are only interested in the ones that never got that bad in the first place. It may be pretty good logic to start with a solid base, but a lot of these cars were beat from the time they left the showroom floor. Not every car can be a survivor. Besides, the really rough ones usually have really rough parts too, so what's the point of parting them out? I admit I had to cut up a donor car to save my 500, but at that time, they did not have good reproduction parts.