4 Door Plymouth Barracuda

[Stretch]

It seems to me that one or both of you need to step up to the plate and show some class by going on with your day to day lives and not bickering about something that means nothing.

Tufcat, I get your point. If the car didn't exist not pass it off as something that did. And don't try and profit from it. Thats no different than rebodying a car or swapping VINS or cloning something then selling it for "It's the real thing" money. That makes you a thief and nothing more. Well a felon perhaps.

ECS   Build your car the way you want to. Show off your mad fab skills! Do what ever you want with this car. Just don't ever pass it off as "the real deal 1 of 1 concept car". Don't have a VIN tag made. That's VIN swapping or rebodying or what ever you want to call it, it's still illegal not to mention immoral!

I fail to see why either of you find it necessary bicker back and forth over something that really doesn't matter when it comes down to day to day life.

I hope that neither of you take this as a personal attack from me. That was never intended.   I don't have any problem with car guys who are engaged in a intelligent debate, but there comes a point when it turns into childish B.S.

Is a 4 door E-body for me? No! I do appreciate the talent and effort it takes to build one. Yes. Do I appreciate and respect a man who is willing to stand up for what he truly feels is right? Oh hell yah! This country needs far more of it!

What I'm trying to say is, life is hard! It's even harder when your mad! 

[TUFCAT]

You might want to discuss how to handle this ordeal with your "parts supplier".  I understand he has lots of practice in having to shovel his way out of garbage piles.  

[TUFCAT]

It seems to me that one or both of you need to step up to the plate and show some class by going on with your day to day lives and not bickering about something that means nothing.

Tufcat, I get your point. If the car didn't exist not pass it off as something that did. And don't try and profit from it. Thats no different than rebodying a car or swapping VINS or cloning something then selling it for "It's the real thing" money. That makes you a thief and nothing more. Well a felon perhaps.

ECS   Build your car the way you want to. Show off your mad fab skills! Do what ever you want with this car. Just don't ever pass it off as "the real deal 1 of 1 concept car". Don't have a VIN tag made. That's VIN swapping or rebodying or what ever you want to call it, it's still illegal not to mention immoral!

I fail to see why either of you find it necessary bicker back and forth over something that really doesn't matter when it comes down to day to day life.

I hope that neither of you take this as a personal attack from me. That was never intended.   I don't have any problem with car guys who are engaged in a intelligent debate, but there comes a point when it turns into childish B.S.

Is a 4 door E-body for me? No! I do appreciate the talent and effort it takes to build one. Yes. Do I appreciate and respect a man who is willing to stand up for what he truly feels is right? Oh hell ya! This country needs far more of it!

What I'm trying to say is, life is hard! It's even harder when your mad!  

Stretch, no offense taken at all towards you.  The only thing I want to clarify is not to single me out in summary judgment. I certainly wasn't the only player in this game - not by a longshot.  The ideas you posted aren't necessarily mine. Several folks added their own input.  Thanks

[Stretch]

Didn't think I did. When I said I had respect for anyone willing to stand for what the believe in I was referring to you.

[TUFCAT]

Didn't think I did. When I said I had respect for anyone willing to stand for what the believe in I was referring to you.

Thanks!   

[chargerjy9]

STRETCH,
thank you for your succinct wrap up. That is what we were trying to get across, but it was like trying to beat your head against the wall. Keep it honest and ditch the VIN code stuff.

[resq302]

Why would Dave ditch the VIN?  Whats to say that it isn't a real VIN that Chrysler could have assigned to it knowing what the build of this car was?  Also, don't you need some kind of a VIN to register or title a car so you can legally drive it?

If you are worried that should Dave sell the car in the future, that it might get into some dis-honest persons hands and claim that it is an original concept car I think this thread has more than proven that this car is a tribute to the car that was built and then disappeared (more presumably destroyed).  After all, the web is full of info with with results of what car is or isn't stolen due to data bases or links to threads where cars are being passed off as originals when they are not and even threads which expose people who claim stuff is original metal when it is obviously not, not even tig welded and bondod back together.

[TUFCAT]

Why would Dave ditch the VIN?  Whats to say that it isn't a real VIN that Chrysler could have assigned to it knowing what the build of this car was?  Also, don't you need some kind of a VIN to register or title a car so you can legally drive it?

If you are worried that should Dave sell the car in the future, that it might get into some dis-honest persons hands and claim that it is an original concept car I think this thread has more than proven that this car is a tribute to the car that was built and then disappeared (more presumably destroyed).  After all, the web is full of info with with results of what car is or isn't stolen due to data bases or links to threads where cars are being passed off as originals when they are not and even threads which expose people who claim stuff is original metal when it is obviously not, not even tig welded and bondod back together.

[resq302]

Why would Dave ditch the VIN?  Whats to say that it isn't a real VIN that Chrysler could have assigned to it knowing what the build of this car was?  Also, don't you need some kind of a VIN to register or title a car so you can legally drive it?

If you are worried that should Dave sell the car in the future, that it might get into some dis-honest persons hands and claim that it is an original concept car I think this thread has more than proven that this car is a tribute to the car that was built and then disappeared (more presumably destroyed).  After all, the web is full of info with with results of what car is or isn't stolen due to data bases or links to threads where cars are being passed off as originals when they are not and even threads which expose people who claim stuff is original metal when it is obviously not, not even tig welded and bondod back together.

Man, Tom, you just love boosting your post count don't you?   

[dyslexic teddybear]

STRETCH,
thank you for your succinct wrap up. That is what we were trying to get across, but it was like trying to beat your head against the wall. Keep it honest and ditch the VIN code stuff.

...maybe more like trying to pin down a politician.

Keep it honest and ditch the VIN code stuff........is worth repeating. 

[ECS]

Just don't ever pass it off as "the real deal 1 of 1 concept car". Don't have a VIN tag made. That's VIN swapping or rebodying or what ever you want to call it, it's still illegal not to mention immoral!

You might want to go back and re-read what has been stated.  Nowhere have I said this will be the "real deal 1 of 1 concept car."  It is nothing more than a project build that represents the Concept Car written about by Roger Johnson.  This might be illegal for people without proper certification but our Chrysler licensing, VIN qualifications and prior approval allow us to do what we are doing.  We are not some fly by night operation.  Other than the Chrysler Corporation themselves, we are the ONLY Firm approved to manufacture VIN products for their Company WORLDWIDE.  They also use our services to manufacture their VIN anti-theft markers.  We were issued contractual, exclusive licensing to do this in 2010.  We are currently in the process of taking over the secondary VIN operations for the ENTIRE Chrysler Corporation.  

I guess attacks against ECS is the next direction for some of you in an effort to deflect attention from being wrong about the 4 Door Barracuda senario.  If you are concerned about ESC doing something "illegal" and "immoral" PLEASE contact the Chrysler Corporation and the NICB.  After contacting them and being apprised of the situation, please come back here to set the record straight regarding your erroneous observations and slanderous comments!  

[ECS]

That is what we were trying to get across, but it was like trying to beat your head against the wall. Keep it honest and ditch the VIN code stuff.

So now you want us to believe that it was the "VIN code stuff" that you were complaining about?  You are worse than a Frog jumping from one Lilly pad to another trying to be "right" about something.

[TUFCAT]

You might want to go back and re-read what has been stated.  Nowhere have I said this will be the "real deal 1 of 1 concept car."  It is nothing more than a project build that represents the Concept Car written about by Roger Johnson.  This might be illegal for people without proper certification but our Chrysler licensing, VIN qualifications and prior approval allow us to do what we are doing.  We are not some fly by night operation.  Other than the Chrysler Corporation themselves, we are the ONLY Firm approved to manufacture VIN products for their Company WORLDWIDE.  They also use our services to manufacture their VIN anti-theft markers.  We were issued contractual, exclusive licensing to do this in 2010.  We are currently in the process of taking over the secondary VIN operations for the ENTIRE Chrysler Corporation.  

I guess attacks against ECS is the next direction for some of you in an effort to deflect attention from being wrong about the 4 Door Barracuda senario.  If you are concerned about ESC doing something "illegal" and "immoral" PLEASE contact the Chrysler Corporation and the NICB.  After contacting them and being apprised of the situation, please come back here to set the record straight regarding your erroneous observations and slanderous comments!  

Since you seem to be back in the mood to argue, why not answer the question as to why you're putting a Chrysler VIN on that car?...or why the body has factory appearing partial vin stampings in the correct production places?

(pictures from the bottom of page 19 of this thread)

Specifically the decision to use the new 1970 Vin, BS41H0B1XXXXXX, instead of the Chrysler assigned 1971 B-body vin from the 4-door carcass?

[TUFCAT]

Also, don't you need some kind of a VIN to register or title a car so you can legally drive it?

I was under the assumption it already had a 1971 vin/title.  

[odcics2]

Why would Dave ditch the VIN?  Whats to say that it isn't a real VIN that Chrysler could have assigned to it knowing what the build of this car was?  Also, don't you need some kind of a VIN to register or title a car so you can legally drive it?

If you are worried that should Dave sell the car in the future, that it might get into some dis-honest persons hands and claim that it is an original concept car I think this thread has more than proven that this car is a tribute to the car that was built and then disappeared (more presumably destroyed).  After all, the web is full of info with with results of what car is or isn't stolen due to data bases or links to threads where cars are being passed off as originals when they are not and even threads which expose people who claim stuff is original metal when it is obviously not, not even tig welded and bondod back together.

VIN of the 4 door donor B body should be used...  IMO.
Anything else could be a felony.    Just ask the FBI for their opinion.   

[chargerjy9]

"Just don't ever pass it off as "the real deal 1 of 1 concept car". Don't have a VIN tag made. That's VIN swapping or rebodying or what ever you want to call it, it's still illegal not to mention immoral!"  quote from Stretch

ECS, YOU SAID: and I quote:

"You might want to go back and re-read what has been stated. Nowhere have I said this will be the "real deal 1 of 1 concept car." It is nothing more than a project build that represents the Concept Car written about by Roger Johnson.  This might be illegal for people without proper certification but our Chrysler licensing, VIN qualifications and prior approval allow us to do what we are doing.  We are not some fly by night operation.  Other than the Chrysler Corporation themselves, we are the ONLY Firm approved to manufacture VIN products for their Company WORLDWIDE.  They also use our services to manufacture their VIN anti-theft markers.  We were issued contractual, exclusive licensing to do this in 2010.  We are currently in the process of taking over the secondary VIN operations for the ENTIRE Chrysler Corporation."  

AGAIN,SIR:  you did say that earlier in this discussion. READ YOUR OWN WORDS!!!
/
"Some of you know that ECS is involved with building a "ONE of a KIND" Plymouth Concept Vehicle that involves both Chrysler and the DMV. We are assembling an OE type Four Door 1970 Plymouth Cuda. The concept was taken from the ONLY red vehicle that was ACTUALLY built (and later destroyed) by Chrysler in 1969.     (  how do you know "it" was destroyed BTW.)
We're building the "real" version of the only Concept that was ACTUALLY made in 1969.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT YOU DIDN'T SAY THOSE WORDS.  Be honest, man.

The made up VIN code tag, approved or not, falsely leads someone who doesn't know any better into thinking that this vehicle is something that it is not. IMO, the idea smacks of charlatanism, unless a disclaimer is made. Use the donor car VIN as suggested. My opinion.

[Old Moparz]

There's about 1-1/2 pages of interesting info & discussions out of the 22 in all. No wonder some of the older members don't come around here anymore.   

[AKcharger]

There's about 1-1/2 pages of interesting info & discussions out of the 22 in all. No wonder some of the older members don't come around here anymore.   

What are ya' talkin' about? this is entertainment at it's finest! right up there with the HLPAG bashing threads and the Tee shirts from the old site!

[resq302]

So now we are comparing Dave to a thief?     That ain't right as this is a far cry from HLPAG where he sold bondo'd up Gen. Lee's as good cars or the prior site owner taking peoples money for shirts and not delivering the product.  This thread is completely different as it is about someone building a car that Chrysler had a concept of.

[held1823]

So now we are comparing Dave to a thief?    That ain't right as this is a far cry from HLPAG where he sold bondo'd up Gen. Lee's as good cars or the prior site owner taking peoples money for shirts and not delivering the product.  This thread is completely different as it is about someone building a car that, according to the memory of one single, camera-less mailroom employee, Chrysler had a concept of.

fixed that for ya. there is zero evidence for either side that the car did or did not exist.

[TUFCAT]

So now we are comparing Dave to a thief?    That ain't right as this is a far cry from HLPAG where he sold bondo'd up Gen. Lee's as good cars or the prior site owner taking peoples money for shirts and not delivering the product.  This thread is completely different as it is about someone building a car that, according to the memory of one single, camera-less mailroom employee, Chrysler had a concept of.

fixed that for ya

 

At least we are being prepared for more of this "unfolding drama" to come. 

[ECS]

"real deal 1 of 1 concept car."

"We're building the "real" version of the only Concept that was ACTUALLY made in 1969."

Nowhere did I claim we were building THE "real deal 1 of 1 concept car".  We are not capable of building a "Concept Car" because we are not an Automobile manufacturing Company.  (Besides, THAT car had already been built in 1969!)  We are however building a "real" running/driving tribute to the actual Concept Car seen and written about by Roger Johnson.  If you don't like it........tough!   

By all means keep merging, twisting and/or rearranging my words in an attempt to cover up the fact that you were wrong about the protocol for how Concept cars were built. 

[ECS]

So now we are comparing Dave to a thief?

It's actually funny Brain.  I guess I'm that important to these guys.  Have you ever seen so many people concerned and bothered about something that has NOTHING to do with them?  When I was in Kindergarten and JEALOUS of someone else, I remember acting the same way.  Attack and cut something down in an attempt to feel better about myself!  As I grew up added substance in my life,  I didn't have the time or the desire to worry about what anyone else was doing.  (Unless it was necessary to give certain "parts suppliers" a taste of their own rude medicine! )  If it takes my project to provide some form of substance in their life, I guess I should feel honored.  

[ECS]

Anything else could be a felony.    Just ask the FBI for their opinion.    

Very interesting thought/idea you have there!  I got one better for you though.  How about we ask the FBI's counter part (the NICB) what they think?!  Oh yeah......I forgot......I already did that!  As a matter of fact, THEY were the ones who assigned and approved the Vehicle Identification Number that we are using.  So much for the "felony" theory.  

[resq302]

So now we are comparing Dave to a thief? 

It's actually funny Brain.  I guess I'm that important to these guys.  Have you ever seen so many people concerned and bothered about something that has NOTHING to do with them?  When I was in Kindergarten  and JEALOUS of someone else, I remember acting the same way.  Attack and cut something down in an attempt to feel better about myself!  As I grew up added substance in my life,  I didn't have the time or the desire to worry about what anyone else was doing.  (Unless it was necessary to give certain "parts suppliers" a taste of their own rude medicine! )  If it takes my project to provide some form of substance in their life, I guess I should feel honored. 

Brain?  I guess that should be a compliment.    Actually, people mis-spell my name all the time.  Heck, I even do it when I'm typing up letters and such for our car clubs car show when I'm seeking sponsors for the trophies and door prizes.

As for it being funny and comical, yes it absolutely is!  This site for this thread has been nothing but filled with unfriendly negative Nancy's about the whole build while other sites see the car for what it is.  A tribute to the concept car.  Granted there are others on those sites who might not like it but they express that it is not their style and move on.  No bickering back and forth or "conspiracy theory" mentality.  I'm actually kind of glad I haven't posted progress on Dad's 69 GTX vert as I'm certain people here would telling me that I am doing it "wrong" contrary to what I am finding on an untouched (for the most part) factory car.