4 Door Plymouth Barracuda

[held1823]

i'm not absent, i'm just an aero snob. if it isn't in that forum, it isn't important.

[TUFCAT]

i'm not absent, i'm just an aero snob. if it isn't in that forum, it isn't important.

LOL.  You must be a snob    I can't afford to be on the aero car thread....I don't even own a Charger anymore!  

[wingcar]

I never personally said that I did or didn't believe what you state is true.  Or for that matter I never said anything about what Roger Johnson supposedly saw, or thought he saw.  You keep posting stories about concept vehicles that were built as if they prove the 4-door Cuda was indeed built.  I am sure that not everyone in the corporate "food chain" would or could be aware of every single project that was taking place.  But, "someone" would have to know, as "someone" had to pay the bills for the work, and that person would be working within finance or another dept.   That is a fact unless employees hide the project under some other project budget.  And, I would find that hard to believe as that could be a job/career ending move to say the least.  All I have ever said is that there would be something out there to prove this thing ever existed, if indeed it did.   It's all just words if you can't provide some documentation or a photo of this car....not other concepts, but this concept.  

I have to ask, why are you beating this subject to death, you seem to be taking all the responses very personal.   You should understand that when you post something to this or any other site...that not everyone is going to agree and that's just something you need to accept.  People will and do post THEIR opinion...that's what this and other sites are all about...  It's as if you have a need to legitimize the fact that Chrysler made a 4-door Cuda to somehow made the present 4-door Cuda project that much more important.  Not that it's not as I look forward to seeing it as it appears to be a very interesting project.  And, IF Chrysler never made a 4-door concept; does that lessen the value of the present project?  Chrysler made many concepts, but I find it hard to believe that not one picture was ever taken of it, or that not one piece of documentation can be found.
 
You are never going to prove to everyone that the original 4-door existed, unless you can provide some documentation.   So at the end of the day, let's all agree to disagree...and not get personal.    

[TUFCAT]

I never personally said that I did or didn't believe what you state is true.  Or for that matter I never said anything about what Roger Johnson supposedly saw, or thought he saw.  You keep posting stories about concept vehicles that were built as if they prove the 4-door Cuda was indeed built.  I am sure that not everyone in the corporate "food chain" would or could be aware of every single project that was taking place.  But, "someone" would have to know, as "someone" had to pay the bills for the work, and that person would be working within finance or another dept.   That is a fact unless employees hide the project under some other project budget.  And, I would find that hard to believe as that could be a job/career ending move to say the least.  All I have ever said is that there would be something out there to prove this thing ever existed, if indeed it did.   It's all just words if you can't provide some documentation or a photo of this car....not other concepts, but this concept. 

I have to ask, why are you beating this subject to death, you seem to be taking all the responses very personal.   You should understand that when you post something to this or any other site...that not everyone is going to agree and that's just something you need to accept.  People will and do post THEIR opinion...that's what is and other sites are all about...  It's as if you have a need to legitimize the fact that Chrysler made a 4-door Cuda to somehow made the present 4-door Cuda project that much more important.  Not that it's not as I look forward to seeing it as it appears to be a very interesting project.  And, IF Chrysler never made a 4-door concept; does that lessen the value of the present project?  Chrysler made many concepts, but I find it hard to believe that not one picture was ever taken of it, or that not one piece of documentation can be found.
 
You are never going to prove to everyone that the original 4-door existed, unless you can provide some documentation.   So at the end of the day, let's all agree to disagree...and not get personal.     

[DAY CLONA]

  Just like I said to Mike in an earlier post, no matter what is presented, you guys will disparage and refute ANYTHING that doesn't support your OPINIONS.
[/quote]







Exactly, brings to mind the DodgeCharger.com post from member "Charger Punk" when he claimed he saw in person and took pics of a 1969 ModTop Daytona, and because he had some issues getting the pics, the board was on him like "fleas on a dog" calling BS.....but in the end when the car made it's appearance (I did a photo outlay on Moparts with the owners permission) here and on Moparts, then it turned to wanting a notarized letter from Walter P Chrysler himself to validate the car, even after a few came on here to say they had seen the car in Canada in the early 70's wearing it's ModTop...then member Beep Beep Dave located the guy that actually worked at the vendor that made the ModTop mat'l for Chrysler, and the guy produced samples of the actual mat'l used on the Canadian Daytona, known as "American Daisy"...still non believers, so it doesn't matter what an individual produces as evidence...on pretty much any topic here, there's still those that have their heads buried up their collective a#$


Mike

[ECS]

You keep posting stories about concept vehicles that were built as if they prove the 4-door Cuda was indeed built.

100% UNTRUE!  I have simply posted various Concept/Prototype data to counter the reasons (posted by some on this thread) for why a 4 Door Concept Barracuda WOULD NOT have been built.  I have PROVEN that Concepts/Prototypes were built without the Design Teams or Corporate Brass aware of them being produced.  That was one of "impossibilities" that some here had posted regarding the process for which Concepts were built.  

[TUFCAT]

 Just like I said to Mike in an earlier post, no matter what is presented, you guys will disparage and refute ANYTHING that doesn't support your OPINIONS.

Exactly, brings to mind the DodgeCharger.com post from member "Charger Punk" when he claimed he saw in person and took pics of a 1969 ModTop Daytona, and because he had some issues getting the pics, the board was on him like "fleas on a dog" calling BS.....but in the end when the car made it's appearance (I did a photo outlay on Moparts with the owners permission) here and on Moparts, then it turned to wanting a notarized letter from Walter P Chrysler himself to validate the car, even after a few came on here to say they had seen the car in Canada in the early 70's wearing it's ModTop...then member Beep Beep Dave located the guy that actually worked at the vendor that made the ModTop mat'l for Chrysler, and the guy produced samples of the actual mat'l used on the Canadian Daytona, known as "American Daisy"...still non believers, so it doesn't matter what an individual produces as evidence...on pretty much any topic here, there's still those that have their heads buried up their collective a#$


Mike

For the record if I recall correctly, it ended up the owner had someone do that after the car was delivered, and had nothing to do with Chrysler.

[TUFCAT]

You keep posting stories about concept vehicles that were built as if they prove the 4-door Cuda was indeed built.

100% UNTRUE!  I have simply posted various Concept/Prototype data to counter the reasons (posted by some on this thread) for why a 4 Door Concept Barracuda WOULD NOT have been built.  I have PROVEN that Concepts/Prototypes were built without the Design Teams or Corporate Brass aware of them being produced.  That was one of "impossibilities" that some here had posted regarding the process for which Concepts were built.  

[ECS]

Take a look at the quotes below where people said that there was NO WAY the following scenario could take place to the question I asked.  They lost all credibility when they POSITIVELY said it could never happen!   Here are their quotes again for those who missed it and the PROOF that shows otherwise.

"Was it possible for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept/Prototype car had been built?"

NO.

I don't think it's possible.  Not with the way the process works.

NO, NO NO listen to me, PLEASE. NOT going to happen. Concept cars were and are being done by Design studios that the public never sees. But the corporation, only, thru Design Office, gives the go ahead for such projects. the corp would not sanction or put their name and reputation on a project that they knew nothing about. there is nothing done off site that they would back unless they had control.

Wouldn't have happened.

I don't care how big the organization when it come to $$$$ the Brass knows 'cause no lower element in the company  is gonna' take this kind of expense out-of-hide from their operating funds "just for fun....

 

[JB400]

Someone needs to do some more research.  DeLorean was the one writing the checks in Pontiac, and green lighted the project.  So yeah, management knew.

Here's Motor Trends' article on the issue with interviews with people that were there.
http://www.motortrend.com/classic/features/12q1_1965_pontiac_banshee_xp_833/

[TUFCAT]

Someone needs to do some more research.  DeLorean was the one writing the checks in Pontiac, and green lighted the project.  So yeah, management knew.

Here's Motor Trends' article on the issue with interviews with people that were there.
http://www.motortrend.com/classic/features/12q1_1965_pontiac_banshee_xp_833/

That's not what I read! 

[ECS]

Don't believe everything you read that is printed in a magazine or book.

It appears you are the ALL KNOWING who can tell us everything that is considered Fact or Fiction concerning things that are written in the past.  Did George Washington really cross the Delaware?  Haven't seen the pictures so the "Author" of those accounts must also be in question.....right? 

So let's get this straight.......Automotive Historian Roger Johnson, GM Designer Ned Nickles, Chief Designer John Delorian, Chassis Designer William Collins, GM Vice President William Mitchell and Pontiac's Pete Estes were all delusional liars about their recollection of the things that occurred with their Concept vehicles   And the Editor who interviewed and printed their QUOTES just decided to wing it, change their commentary and print lies?  You are a genius Tufcat!

[ECS]

Someone needs to do some more research.  DeLorean was the one writing the checks in Pontiac, and green lighted the project.  So yeah, management knew.

Here's Motor Trends' article on the issue with interviews with people that were there.
http://www.motortrend.com/classic/features/12q1_1965_pontiac_banshee_xp_833/

Now you are going to provide us with details about something you originally said NEVER occured?  I said the TOP BRASS!  Delorian's Superiors did not know what was taking place.  He was spending Corporate funds that were NOT approved as some of you said could NEVER happen.

[ECS]

That's not what I read! 

I don't know why you're so happy!  Weren't you the one who said not to believe everything you read?  Or do the exceptions pertaining to what is valid get to also be made by you guys.

[TUFCAT]

Don't believe everything you read that is printed in a magazine or book.

It appears you are the ALL KNOWING who can tell us everything that is considered Fact or Fiction concerning things that are written in the past.  Did George Washington really cross the Delaware?  Haven't seen the pictures so the "Author" of those accounts must also be in question.....right? 

So let's get this straight.......Automotive Historian Roger Johnson, GM Designer Ned Nickles, Chief Designer John Delorian, Chassis Designer William Collins, GM Vice President William Mitchell and Pontiac's Pete Estes were all delusional liars about their recollection of the things that occurred with their Concept vehicles   And the Editor who interviewed and printed their QUOTES just decided to wing it, change their commentary and print lies? 

....you are a genius Tufcat!

Thank you, thank you very much.  Now can we end all this back and forth nonsense...?  Even "I" would rather see more pictures of the build process at this point....  

Build that beautiful car and forget what I (we've) said.  Enough is enough already. People have already said its your dream car so who cares, even you finally said it was a tribute to the Roger Johnson memory car. So let it go. Really, life is to short.   I don't want to get you pissed off because I want my two cans of "Rust Prevention Magic ! ...plus, we also sang "KUMBAYA" at the campfire...remember?  

[JB400]

Someone needs to do some more research.  DeLorean was the one writing the checks in Pontiac, and green lighted the project.  So yeah, management knew.

Here's Motor Trends' article on the issue with interviews with people that were there.
http://www.motortrend.com/classic/features/12q1_1965_pontiac_banshee_xp_833/

Now you are going to provide us with details about something you originally said NEVER occured?  I said the TOP BRASS!  Delorian's Superiors did not know what was taking place.  He was spending Corporate funds that were NOT approved as some of you said could NEVER happen.

Have you ever heard of a very popular car that wasn't supposed to be built called the GTO?  That car was built by using loopholes.  The same loopholes that built the GTO was used to build the Banshee.

You never said anything about the Corporate executives being the only ones not knowing.  You said "Was it possible for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept/Prototype car had been built?"  Pontiac is the automobile manufacturer with De Lorean writing the checks, styling was done in Ned Nichols design studio.  De Lorean answers to GM Corporate execs.  So yes, they knew.

[pettybird]

i'm not absent, i'm just an aero snob. if it isn't in that forum, it isn't important.

This, and the unicorn story, are both 100% true.


By the by, was the 4 door Barracuda the second shooter on the grassy knoll?  DISPROVE THAT, SMART GUYS.

[TUFCAT]

was the 4 door Barracuda the second shooter on the grassy knoll?  DISPROVE THAT, SMART GUYS.

The JFK shooting occurred 5 years before the 4-door 'Cuda was first sighted by Roger Johnson at the Chrysler loading dock.  

[ECS]

Pontiac is the automobile manufacturer with De Lorean writing the checks, styling was done in Ned Nichols design studio.  De Lorean answers to GM Corporate execs.  So yes, they knew.

You guys continue to make excuses and twist the PRINTED stories to how you see fit.  Roger Johnson said he saw the 4 Door Barracuda but you people correct his account of the topic by saying he was probably confused.  The Head Honchos for GM said they didn't know the XP-833 was being built but you guys correct their recollection and say that they did.  It must be nice to be able to correct everyone about their personal depiction for how they remember their career memories.  And I thought that I was suppose to be the "arrogant" one!  

[TUFCAT]

You guys continue to make excuses and twist the PRINTED stories to how you see fit.  Roger Johnson said he saw the 4 Door Barracuda but you people correct his account of the topic by saying he was probably confused.  The Head Honchos for GM said they didn't know the XP-833 was being built but you guys correct their recollection and say that they did.  It must be nice to be able to correct everyone about their personal depiction for how they remember their career memories.  And I thought that I was suppose to be the "arrogant" one!  

Come on, settle down man!  I'm starting to get worried about you....and I need that RPM brother.

[JB400]

Must be the water

[TUFCAT]

Haven't heard from Resq302 in a while...   Where did he go?

[ECS]

By the by, was the 4 door Barracuda the second shooter on the grassy knoll?  DISPROVE THAT, SMART GUYS.

Can we first prove that there was even a car on the knoll before we get into the specifics of what model it was?     That's what I did with the Concept argument that was going on here.  First I had dis-prove the incorrect opinions that were being expressed on the "rules" for how Concepts were built.  Now we can get back to debating if there "might" have been a 4 Door Barracuda based on those related facts.  

[TUFCAT]

Can we first prove that there was even a car on the knoll before we get into the specifics of what model it was?     That's what I did with the Concept argument that was going on here.  First I had dis-prove the incorrect opinions that were being expressed on the "rules" for how Concepts were built.  

Now we can get back to debating if there "might" have been a 4 Door Barracuda based on those related facts.  

                 NO!!!

[TUFCAT]

Okay let's move onto a new subject here...I think we beat the 4-door Barracuda concept into the ground.

Here's a new one to discuss.  

Does anyone recall ever seeing this?