4 Door Plymouth Barracuda

[ECS]

Maybe, you should stick with old maid....

Maybe I should! 

[TUFCAT]

Hi Mike!  It doesn't matter what you show, it means nothing!  Some of these guys remind me of a 1960's Sheriff I heard about who lived in a small bigoted town in Mississippi.  He received a call about a Body they had pulled from the river.  When he got to the scene they told him the Person was a Black Man.  His hands were tied behind his back, his legs were shacked and he was duct taped from head to toe.  When the Coroner asked the bigot Sheriff what he wanted him to list as the cause of death he said, "This has to be the clearest case of suicide I've ever seen!"

[resq302]

Ya know Tom, eating all that popcorn will make you fat!   

[TUFCAT]

Ya know Tom, eating all that popcorn will make you fat!  

Very true, I wish there was an icon for Oreo's!  

[JB400]

Ya know Tom, eating all that popcorn will make you fat!   

Very true, I wish there was an icon for Oreo's! 

[ECS]

So we are all in agreement that what I asked below "NEVER" happened or could have taken place?  

Was it possible for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept/Prototype car had been built?

[TUFCAT]

So we are all in agreement that what I asked below "NEVER" happened or could have taken place?  

Was it possibly for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept/Prototype car had been built?

Matchbox or Hot Wheels?    

[JB400]

So we are all in agreement that what I asked below "NEVER" happened or could have taken place?   

Was it possibly for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept/Prototype car had been built?

Wouldn't have happened. 

[AKcharger]

Was it possibly for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept/Prototype car had been built?

I say No for one reason...the oldest and most accurate way to many most any truth...FOLLOW THE MONEY
- Who is the shop going to get paid by?
- Who is going to sign the contract?
- Who is going to authorize payment?
- Whose budget is it coming out of?

I don't care how big the organization when it come to $$$$ the Brass knows 'cause no lower element in the company  is gonna' take this kind of expense out-of-hide from their operating funds "just for fun


Just think of the Barracuda SX!

[DAY CLONA]

The 4 dr Vettes (5 built in 1978) were sanctioned by GM, and outsourced to a private coach builder for "market testing" the viability of a 4dr Vette, 2 cars were used to produce each example, a handful were also produced in 1980....as well as a lot of independent builds by shops and individuals over the years
1978 vintage debut photo below....no grandkids in sight

Hi Mike!  It doesn't matter what you show, it means nothing!  Some of these guys remind me of a 1960's Sheriff I heard about who lived in a small bigoted town in Mississippi.  He received a call about a Body they had pulled from the river.  When he got to the scene they told him the Person was a Black Man.  His hands were tied behind his back, his legs were shacked and he was duct taped from head to toe.  When the Coroner asked the bigot Sheriff what he wanted him to list as the cause of death he said, "This has to be the clearest case of suicide I've ever seen!"

I know exactly what you mean, I've run into that wall many times on here and Moparts when I recreated the 2 tone green 1970 Daytona in 2005 and posted photos from "back in the day"....yet some here were still insistent the car had no connection with Chrysler

Mike

[pettybird]

How much bong water are you drinking to not see the fastback shape in both cars?

[Aero426]

I see a whole LOT of Javelin going on, with some Olds tail lamps thrown in.    Yes, in profile, I see some Duster too. 

[pettybird]

And in case everyone needs a road map to where we are, we're here:



Unfalsifiability

(also known as: untestibility)

Description: Confidently asserting that a theory or hypothesis is true or false even though the theory or hypothesis cannot possibly be contradicted by an observation or the outcome of any physical experiment, usually without strong evidence or good reasons.

Making unfalsifiable claims is a way to leave the realm of rational discourse, since unfalsifiable claims are often faith-based, and not founded on evidence and reason.

Example:

I have tiny, invisible unicorns living in my anus.  Unfortunately, these cannot be detected by any kind of scientific equipment.

Explanation: While it may actually be a fact that tiny, invisible, mythological creatures are occupying this person's opening at the lower end of the alimentary canal, it is a theory that is constructed so it cannot be falsified in any way; therefore, should not be seriously considered without significant evidence.


Exception: All unfalsifiable claims are not fallacious; they are just unfalsifiable.  As long as proper skepticism is retained and proper evidence is given, it could be a legitimate form of reasoning.

Tip: Never assume you must be right simply because you can't be proven wrong.

[TUFCAT]

And in case everyone needs a road map to where we are, we're here:



Unfalsifiability

(also known as: untestibility)

Description: Confidently asserting that a theory or hypothesis is true or false even though the theory or hypothesis cannot possibly be contradicted by an observation or the outcome of any physical experiment, usually without strong evidence or good reasons.

Making unfalsifiable claims is a way to leave the realm of rational discourse, since unfalsifiable claims are often faith-based, and not founded on evidence and reason.

Example:

I have tiny, invisible unicorns living in my anus.  Unfortunately, these cannot be detected by any kind of scientific equipment.

Explanation: While it may actually be a fact that tiny, invisible, mythological creatures are occupying this person's opening at the lower end of the alimentary canal, it is a theory that is constructed so it cannot be falsified in any way; therefore, should not be seriously considered without significant evidence.


Exception: All unfalsifiable claims are not fallacious; they are just unfalsifiable.  As long as proper skepticism is retained and proper evidence is given, it could be a legitimate form of reasoning.

Tip: Never assume you must be right simply because you can't be proven wrong.

!!!

[ECS]

And in case everyone needs a road map to where we are, we're here:

"Was it possible for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept/Prototype car had been built?"

NO.

I don't think it's possible.  Not with the way the process works.

NO, NO NO listen to me, PLEASE. NOT going to happen. Concept cars were and are being done by Design studios that the public never sees. But the corporation, only, thru Design Office, gives the go ahead for such projects. the corp would not sanction or put their name and reputation on a project that they knew nothing about. there is nothing done off site that they would back unless they had control.

Wouldn't have happened.

I don't care how big the organization when it come to $$$$ the Brass knows 'cause no lower element in the company  is gonna' take this kind of expense out-of-hide from their operating funds "just for fun....

READ THE IMPOSSIBLE!  John Delorian and Bill Collins built two running Concept/Prototype without the awareness of anyone in the Company!  Delorian was GM Division Chief Engineer at the time and Collins was GM Chassis Engineer.  The Design Teams didn't know they were being built but some of you claim they ALWAYS knew about EVERY Concept/Prototype.  How were they built without the Corporation sanctioning and giving the go ahead to manufacture them?  And what about the cost to build them?  Here comes the backpedaling and excuses to explain yet another Concept/Prototype scenario that "NEVER" existed.

[wingcar]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!

I can't believe how this thread has taken on a life all its own....

(*If only someone, somewhere, somehow, could supply even the smallest bit of proof through a picture or document this whole thread could be laid to rest.........as it stands right now it's all hearsay and rumors.  And with that I rest my case your honor....) 

[ECS]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!

I can't believe how this thread has taken on a life all its own....

(*If only someone, somewhere, somehow, could supply even the smallest bit of proof through a picture or document this whole thread could be laid to rest.........as it stands right now it's all hearsay and rumors.  And with that I rest my case your honor....)  

Why don't you provide something other than your typed words of skepticism?  Why don't ANY of you provide something other than your typed words of skepticism?  I have proved that 4 Door Concepts were built even when some of you said "No Way".  I have proved that Concept/Prototypes WERE built without the knowledge of Design Teams or the Corporate Brass.  You guys said "No Way".  At what point are ANY of you going to admit that you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to your OPINIONS about a topic that you really know nothing about?  Roger Johnson said he saw a 4 Door Barracuda Concept at the Chrysler Headquarters.  YOU prove it to be a falsehood!  Post YOUR proof for everything YOU are saying from this point forward since that is what you expect from me!

[TUFCAT]

And in case everyone needs a road map to where we are, we're here:

"Was it possible for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept/Prototype car had been built?"

NO.

I don't think it's possible.  Not with the way the process works.

NO, NO NO listen to me, PLEASE. NOT going to happen. Concept cars were and are being done by Design studios that the public never sees. But the corporation, only, thru Design Office, gives the go ahead for such projects. the corp would not sanction or put their name and reputation on a project that they knew nothing about. there is nothing done off site that they would back unless they had control.

Wouldn't have happened.

I don't care how big the organization when it come to $$$$ the Brass knows 'cause no lower element in the company  is gonna' take this kind of expense out-of-hide from their operating funds "just for fun....

READ THE IMPOSSIBLE!  John Delorian and Bill Collins built two running Concept/Prototype without the awareness of anyone in the Company!  Delorian was GM Division Chief Engineer at the time and Collins was GM Chassis Engineer.   The Design Teams didn't know they were being built but some of you claim they ALWAYS knew about EVERY Concept/Prototype.  How were they built without the Corporation sanctioning and giving the go ahead to manufacture them?  And what about the cost to build them?  Here comes the backpedaling and excuses to explain yet another Concept/Prototype scenario that "NEVER" existed.

Why don't you provide something other than your typed words of skepticism?  Why don't ANY of you provide something other than you typed words of skepticism?  I have proved that 4 Door Concepts were built even when some of you said "No Way".  I have proved that Concept/Prototypes WERE built without the knowledge of Design Teams or the Corporate Brass.  You guys said "No Way".  At what point are ANY of you going to admit that you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to your OPINIONS about a topic that you really know nothing about?  Roger Johnson said he saw a 4 Door Barracuda Concept at the Chrysler Headquarters.  YOU prove it to be a falsehood!  Post YOUR proof for everything YOU are saying from this point forward since that is what you expect from me!

pass the Oreos.  I'm getting tired of popcorn.

[ECS]

pass the Oreos.   I'm tired of popcorn.

What's the matter?  Cat got your tongue?  Here is the information along with the question in case you missed it.  It's the question where some of you guys POSITIVELY said this Concept/Prototype scenario was impossible. 

"Was it possible for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept/Prototype car had been built?"

[TUFCAT]

pass the Oreos.  I'm tired of popcorn.

What's the matter?  Cat got your tongue?  Here is the information along with the question in case you missed it.  It's the question where some of you guys POSITIVELY said this Concept/Prototype scenario was impossible.  

Don't believe everything you read that is printed in a magazine or book.    Authors typically sensationalize events and embellish facts.  I'm sure you can find other articles printed on this same subject that tell a different story.  The car exists as evidenced by pictures, but I won't comment on the backstory because I don't know anyone involved at GM at that time.... so the cat actually "does" have my tongue on that one!  I'm trying to be as pleasant as I can.  

[Homerr]

I'm bored with all the banter/arguing.  How about more pics of the 4-door Cuda build...

[ECS]

Authors typically sensationalize events and embellish facts.  I'm sure you can find other articles printed on this same subject that tell a different story.  or ask Pete Estes, Bill Collins, or John Z.  Too bad he's dead....

....and here come the excuses!  No one will admit they are wrong about what I just posted about Concept/Prototypes.  Just like I said to Mike in an earlier post, no matter what is presented, you guys will disparage and refute ANYTHING that doesn't support your OPINIONS.  The only thing I have tried to convey is that a possibility existed that Roger Johnson saw what he said he saw!  After being proven wrong on many fronts, you guys are so closed minded that you can't even admit such a possibility.  Your comment above clearly expresses that no matter what is presented, you'll continue to argue with NOTHING but your typed words of skepticism as some form of "proof".  Regardless, we are building the a running/driving example of the red 4 Door Barracuda that Roger Johnson wrote about personally seeing in 1969.  

[TUFCAT]

Authors typically sensationalize events and embellish facts.  I'm sure you can find other articles printed on this same subject that tell a different story.  or ask Pete Estes, Bill Collins, or John Z.  Too bad he's dead....

....and here come the excuses!  No one will admit they are wrong about what I just posted about Concept/Prototypes.  Just like I said to Mike in an earlier post, no matter what is presented, you guys will disparage and refute ANYTHING that doesn't support your OPINIONS.  The only thing I have tried to convey is that a possibility existed that Roger Johnson saw what he said he saw!  After being proven wrong on many fronts, you guys are so closed minded that you can't even admit such a possibility.  Your comment above clearly expresses that no matter what is presented, you'll continue to argue with NOTHING but your typed words of skepticism as some form of "proof".  Regardless, we are building the a running/driving example of the red 4 Door Barracuda that Roger Johnson wrote about personally seeing in 1969.  

Here's a bit of comic relief for you...SERENITY NOW!!  

http://vimeo.com/15130931

[held1823]

a few observations.

the "proof" article mentions pre-existing clay models of the two cars NOT built by gm. multiple people within gm were aware of the early study of the concept, which is also mentioned in the "proof" article. there are also photos of the end result. this particular "smoking gun" is not a one person recollection, ala the trans-am series cars.

the thread on the cuda-challenger site appears to show quotes from dave w., yet the quoted posts are not visible in the thread beyond the first page or so? resq, however, does provide a stellar sidekick shtick routine throughout the thread, so there is some comedic value to the ordeal.

steve b's workmanship, along with dave w's wallet, certainly combine for some incredible workmanship. regardless of the 1970 aspect of this thread, the current build is nothing short of a masterpiece. if i had 1% of steve's talent (or 1% of dave's money), i might live long enough to see the daytona back on the street.

the most shocking aspect of this thread is what appears to be an affinity for magazine hacks from someone who has tirelessly ripped their credibility in the not-so-distant past. if everything they write is spot-on, i have some serious rereading to do.

the unicorns in young croxford's anus; those aren't all that shocking to hear of. i imagine they even speak with a european accent.

[TUFCAT]

a few observations.

the "proof" article mentions pre-existing clay models of the two cars NOT built by gm. multiple people within gm were aware of the early study of the concept, which is also mentioned in the "proof" article. there are also photos of the end result. this particular "smoking gun" is not a one person recollection, ala the trans-am series cars.

the thread on the cuda-challenger site appears to show quotes from dave w., yet the quoted posts are not visible in the thread beyond the first page or so? resq, however, does provide a stellar sidekick shtick routine throughout the thread, so there is some comedic value to the ordeal.

steve b's workmanship, along with dave w's wallet, certainly combine for some incredible workmanship. regardless of the 1970 aspect of this thread, the current build is nothing short of a masterpiece. if i had 1% of steve's talent (or 1% of dave's money), i might live long enough to see the daytona back on the street.

the most shocking aspect of this thread is what appears to be an affinity for magazine hacks from someone who has tirelessly ripped their credibility in the not-so-distant past. if everything they write is spot-on, i have some serious rereading to do.

the unicorns in young croxford's anus; those aren't all that shocking to hear of. i imagine they even speak with a european accent.

After a surprisingly long absence, veteran ball player "held1823" steps up the the plate, the pitcher throws, and WHACK!!  Bases loaded home run... The crowd goes wild!