4 Door Plymouth Barracuda

[AKcharger]

Don't go anywhere.  The thread is about to start REALLY getting good! 

Oh..OK. Just as long as Ethel Doesn't get dragged back into it!

[moparstuart]

gee i cant wait , im so excited

[bill440rt]

I am going to miss this thread though 

Don't go anywhere.  The thread is about to start REALLY getting good! 

[chargerjy9]

been away for awhile. this discussion intrigues me. I am a 35 year retired employee of Chrysler Design office. I spent my career in the clay studios, so I know the business.
Although I was not there when this supposed prototype was developed, I have breakfast once a month with those who were, working in, and managing these very studios. They were there. they know. They would know if a prototype was done off site because they still managed it. In my mind, they have more credence or know the real story more than someone who was there a short time and worked off site from the Styling Studios. I think Tuffcat and his dad, who I know personally, are on target. None of my sources recall such an effort, period.

The 4 door Mustang most certainly is a clay property, I think Tuffcat explained that away as well.  there would be no reason, no market plan to spend money prototyping that, simply a styling exercise, on that. Same for a "4 door E body". Chrysler had plenty 4 door cars thru out their line up.

The Tomahawk was simply a platform to showcase the Viper motor, nothing else. I was there for that.
I will continue to dig up on this 4 door e body subject.

[ECS]

...there would be no reason, no market plan to spend money prototyping that, simply a styling exercise, on that. Same for a "4 door E body". Chrysler had plenty 4 door cars thru out their line up.

So what was the purpose for the Barracuda SX?  Every objection you gave for why Chrysler would not have done such a "styling exercise" can also be used against that Concept Car but they obviously built it!  Same for the Concept Cars like the 4 Door Javelin.  Why would they have made it when they had the 4 Door Matador!  (And AMC didn't have near the discretionary "design" funding that Chrysler did.)  Why make a 4 Door Corvette Concept vehicle when Chevrolet had NUMEROUS 4 Door Cars already being built?  There would be no reason for those Concepts to be built either but they made them!  One person says that they saw it and THAT holds no credibility whatsoever!  Another person says that they did not see it but THAT is somehow considered valid proof!

[ECS]

Someone had called and asked about what we did to fabricate the Door Skins.  They had to be cut and shaped from scratch.  I was able to dig up some older pictures of the "custom" units that were crimped and attached to the (altered) Door Frames.  Below are some close ups of the top backside section of the Passenger rear Door.  It was important to form the shape and crimps to be uniform in width and consistent throughout the entire vehicle.  You can see the top section that has already been crimped and the lower section that is still bent in a 90 degree angle.  When you look at the crimped sections around the Door edges, they are the same "Factory" width throughout the entire Door perimeter.

[ECS]

been away for awhile......The 4 door Mustang most certainly is a clay property, I think Tuffcat explained that away as well.

You also must have been "away" when this thread first started.  Tufcat originally said that the Automobile manufacturers "NEVER" made 4 Door Concept cars.  Beside Chrysler, he specifically said that FORD or GM "NEVER" did it.  I posted pictures to prove the contrary. He proceeded to switch horses and try to give details about the very subject matter that he originally said "NEVER" existed!  At that point, he lost all credibility for exposing his lack of knowledge and opinions on the topic.  

[TUFCAT]

So what was the purpose for the Barracuda SX?  Every objection you gave for why Chrysler would not have done such a "styling exercise" can also be used against that Concept Car but they obviously built it!  Same for the Concept Cars like the 4 Door Javelin.  Why would they have made it when they had the 4 Door Matador!  (And AMC didn't have near the discretionary "design" funding that Chrysler did.)  Why make a 4 Door Corvette Concept vehicle when Chevrolet had NUMEROUS 4 Door Cars already being built?  There would be no reason for those Concepts to be built either but they made them!  One person says that they saw it and THAT holds no credibility whatsoever!  Another person says that they did not see it but THAT is somehow considered valid proof!

You also must have been "away" when this thread first started.  Tufcat originally said that the Automobile manufacturers "NEVER" made 4 Door Concept cars.  Beside Chrysler, he specifically said that FORD or GM "NEVER" did it.  I posted pictures to prove the contrary. He proceeded to switch horses and try to give details about the very subject matter that he originally said "NEVER" existed!  At that point, he lost all credibility for exposing his lack of knowledge and opinions on the topic.  

[TUFCAT]

I doubt original poster "Lizey" predicted this train wreck!

[pettybird]

So what was the purpose for the Barracuda SX?  Every objection you gave for why Chrysler would not have done such a "styling exercise" can also be used against that Concept Car but they obviously built it!  

In hindsight, you can see a crap ton of the Duster in the SX.  And the grille they put on the Polara. 

Why make a 4 Door Corvette Concept vehicle when Chevrolet had NUMEROUS 4 Door Cars already being built?

[ECS]

In hindsight, you can see a crap ton of the Duster in the SX.  And the grille they put on the Polara. 

Your visual aid also works in helping to understand your assessment of the Barrascuda SX.    I guess if it was night time, two hundred yards away and I were squinting.........

[ECS]

.....so I know the business.  Although I was not there when this supposed prototype was developed, I have breakfast once a month with those who were, working in, and managing these very studios. They were there. they know. They would know if a prototype was done off site because they still managed it. In my mind, they have more credence or know the real story more than someone who was there a short time and worked off site from the Styling Studios. .......None of my sources recall such an effort, period.

I guess we are back to the short sighted deduction that if someone did not personally see or remember a particular Concept car, then it must have never existed.  I think we can all agree that Chrysler was no different than ANY of the other Automobile Manufacturers that they competed with.  Their purpose was to sell cars and they were not manufacturing them in 1969 with the "collector" mentality that most of us have today.  

With that said, please answer me this question.  Was it possibly for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept car had been built?

[TUFCAT]

.....so I know the business.  Although I was not there when this supposed prototype was developed, I have breakfast once a month with those who were, working in, and managing these very studios. They were there. they know. They would know if a prototype was done off site because they still managed it. In my mind, they have more credence or know the real story more than someone who was there a short time and worked off site from the Styling Studios. .......None of my sources recall such an effort, period.

I guess we are back to the short sighted deduction that if someone did not personally see or remember a particular Concept car, then it must have never existed.  I think we can all agree that Chrysler was no different than ANY of the other Automobile Manufacturers that they competed with.  Their purpose was to sell cars and they were not manufacturing them in 1969 with the "collector" mentality that most of us have today.  

With that said, please answer me this question.  Was it possibly for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept car had been built?

[ECS]

I just want to help establish some credibility for those who continue to post their "facts" as to what an Automobile Manufacturer would or wouldn't do regarding Concept Cars.  So I'll ask again.........

Was it possible for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept car had been built?

[chargerjy9]

NO.

[resq302]

So what of the Dodge Tomahawk then?

Hey Brian!  Is the Motorcycle in the beginning of this video one of those Tomahawks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpzqQst-Sg8

Dave,

Cant be!  It was a concept and just a figment of our imagination!    Even if there was proof, people would say it has been photo shopped, doctored, or hyped up to people smoking funny stuff or sniffing too much glue!   

[resq302]

Mind if I show instead of tell?  How about an ad?  

That don't prove nothing!  ANYONE could have added those words or falsified that Advertisement.  Fraud!  Fantasy!  My Dad worked in a Roll Mill just like the one in that picture and he NEVER saw that motorcycle sitting around.  

Now Dave!  That was to highlight the V-10 Viper motor.  All I see is silver all around it and nothing definitive of a motor!     I do see some aspect of a motor but nothing that would exemplify or highlight the Viper engine.

[TUFCAT]

Dave,

Cant be!  It was a concept and just a figment of our imagination!    Even if there was proof, people would say it has been photo shopped, doctored, or hyped up to people smoking funny stuff or sniffing too much glue!  

Now Dave!  That was to highlight the V-10 Viper motor.  All I see is silver all around it and nothing definitive of a motor!     I do see some aspect of a motor but nothing that would exemplify or highlight the Viper engine.

Finally!!!     Resq302 is here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGx94VPb8V8

[ECS]

NO.

Thanks for your reply.  If such a situation did exist with one of the "Big 3" Automobile Manufacturers, wouldn't that prove that there COULD have been Concept Cars built that may have slipped through the cracks and never exposed to the masses?  Many of these Concept Cars were suppose to be confidential so you wouldn't expect that they were highly publicized or talked about.  Isn't it a possibility that there might be a few Concept/Prototype cars that were built but even the Design Studio Guys didn't know anything about them? 

[resq302]

Dave,

Cant be!  It was a concept and just a figment of our imagination!    Even if there was proof, people would say it has been photo shopped, doctored, or hyped up to people smoking funny stuff or sniffing too much glue!  

Now Dave!  That was to highlight the V-10 Viper motor.  All I see is silver all around it and nothing definitive of a motor!     I do see some aspect of a motor but nothing that would exemplify or highlight the Viper engine.

Finally!!!     Resq302 is here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGx94VPb8V8

gee, thanks Tom.  Not everyday someone refers to me as their super hero!   

[TUFCAT]

Thanks for your reply.  If such a situation did exist with one of the "Big 3" Automobile Manufacturers, wouldn't that prove that there COULD have been Concept Cars built that may have slipped through the cracks and never exposed to the masses?  Many of these Concept Cars were suppose to be confidential so you wouldn't expect that they were highly publicized or talked about.  Isn't it a possibility that there might be a few Concept/Prototype cars that were built but even the Design Studio Guys didn't know anything about them? 

[ECS]

Okay Tufcat....now that we're getting along and FINALLY talking some straight talk..........what is your REAL view on the following scenario!

Was it possible for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept car had been built?

[JB400]

ECS, will you write me a check for $11.76 million?  I can't tell you what I'm doing, or what it'll look like, or when it'll be completed.  Just write the check.

This is exactly what you're asking from Chrysler Corp. in  69 with your scenario.  Dollar amount is just a figure I made up.

Will you write the check?

[bill440rt]

My thoughts haven't changed.
Sure, ANYTHING is possible. But without CONCRETE proof this car is nothing more than someone's recollection. A memory, and quite possibly a jaded one at that. (My uncle had one of those, but it was a '73 and green and it had a 440 Hemi 6-pack from the factory. He ordered it brand new like that.)

Great project, BTW. Looks like it will be a nifty car.  
I'm very familiar with your products and have read in detail about your other restorations. Saying they are impressive is an understatement.

[ECS]

I can't tell you what I'm doing.......This is exactly what you're asking from Chrysler Corp. in  69 with your scenario.

Don't just include Chrysler as if they were any different than their Competitors.  That's why they referred to them as the BIG 3 back then.  Why not up the ante?  If you think it would be ridiculous for an Automobile Company to make a Concept/Prototype Car to completely scrap, how about TWO of the same car built under the premise I described below?      

Was it possible for an Automobile Manufacturer to have things going on within a "Styling Studio" or Design Department where even the Head Designer did not have ANY knowledge of a particular Concept/Prototype Car being built?  To take it even one step further, would it be possible that even the TOP BRASS of that Automobile Company would not have known that a particular Concept car had been built?