4 Door Plymouth Barracuda

[ECS]

Just unusual. Just as Chrysler taking the time/money to design/build a 4 door with a more or less useless trunk is  well, more then unusual. I am personally familiar with an E-body trunk. I have a Challenger.  I am VERY skeptical Chrysler, with their limited available funds, would spend a chunk of those funds, on a 4 door with a small trunk.

I can understand your point.  Some of you continue to use the logic that Chrysler didn't have money like their competitors so they wouldn't waste funds on deadheaded projects.  One might even think it would be MORE outrageous to waste money building a totally new car, rather than just altering an existing one!  If you are skeptical about Chrysler adding a couple of doors to a car that had already been designed/produced what would be your thoughts on the following scenario?

What is the possibility that Chrysler would have made a vehicle that was COMPLETELY different from ANYTHING they had ever offered?  I'm not talking about a Clay "Concept" but an automobile that was made from scratch and had the possibility to be a New Model.  This car would have "one of a kind" Quarter Panels, Bumpers, Doors, Fenders and Hood that were never designed or used for ANY other Chrysler vehicle that was mass produced.  Would Chrysler have built this type of "Barracuda" car and then completely scrapped the entire platform and/or idea?

[dyslexic teddybear]

As I said, some do have a plan.....

Just unusual. Just as Chrysler taking the time/money to design/build a 4 door with a more or less useless trunk is  well, more then unusual. I am personally familiar with an E-body trunk. I have a Challenger.

I am VERY skeptical Chrysler, with their limited available funds, would spend a chunk of those funds, on a 4 door with a small trunk.



Again, eagerly waiting on documentation. I may be skeptical, but have heard many, many times about Chrysler.....never say never.

Is there enough  ?

[dyslexic teddybear]

Just unusual. Just as Chrysler taking the time/money to design/build a 4 door with a more or less useless trunk is  well, more then unusual. I am personally familiar with an E-body trunk. I have a Challenger.  I am VERY skeptical Chrysler, with their limited available funds, would spend a chunk of those funds, on a 4 door with a small trunk.

I can understand your point.  Some of you continue to use the logic that Chrysler didn't have money like their competitors so they wouldn't waste funds on deadheaded projects.  One might even think it would be MORE outrageous to waste money building a totally new car, rather than just altering an existing one!  If you are skeptical about Chrysler adding a couple of doors to a car that had already been designed/produced what would be your thoughts on the following scenario?

What is the possibility that Chrysler would have made a vehicle that was COMPLETELY different from ANYTHING they had ever offered?  I'm not talking about a Clay "Concept" but an automobile that was made from scratch and had the possibility to be a New Model.  This car would have "one of a kind" Quarter Panels, Bumpers, Doors, Fenders and Hood that were never designed or used for ANY other Chrysler vehicle that was mass produced.  Would Chrysler have built this type of "Barracuda" car and then completely scrapped the entire platform and/or idea?

Re-possibility.......You wrote a pretty good definition of what a concept car is. "Possibility"? I can think of many examples in more recent Chrysler history.....Viper, Prowler are two that made it to production.

Re-4 door E-body, still skeptical. JMO, there's just no reason for them to do it in that time frame. Today, yes, but sporty 4 doors just wasn't done back then. Sure, GM/Ford did concepts and went nowhere with them. Also seems styling/engineering would have had there hands full with upcoming redesigned B bodies....I just don't see them doing it. Unless the E-body was a possible replacement for the upcoming B bodies......and I've never heard even a hint that was considered.

As tenacious as you are......I expect iron-clad documentation, and I will be patiently/eagerly awaiting such documentation.

[ws23rt]

This topic has gone around the circle several times and we are at the same place

One thing is for sure--all the auto makers worked on thousands of ideas that made it to many states of completion but in my mind if they did not sell one than it wasn't ready or accepted by the company.  

It is however interesting to know what they worked on that was rejected.

If there is definitive proof that there was a four door Barracuda that made it to a metal shell what would make it any different than the concepts that fell short of a shell.  

When does life begin for a car ---oh oh---

[dyslexic teddybear]

I actually hope documentation IS found.

Not to prove anyone right or wrong......just Mopar history interests me.

[odcics2]

I have talked to guys involved in various MoPar programs in 69 and 70.
Some guys remember details, some don't.
Some recollections are correct and some do not jive with vintage factory photos and factory original documentation.

I hope ECS comes up with some factory documents stating "4 dr. E body study cancelled", or whatever, to prove it
at least was a thought.  A photo of a 4 door STEEL "E" body in the Styling Studio would be a bonus. 
If it was actually built, it would have gone through the clay phase, too.   Also, there would have been detailed drawings...

Hopefully, Brandt Rosenbusch can be of some help.  Something this odd would have left a paper trail...

Good Luck, ECS!    I know what you are up against!!   

[ws23rt]

Me too---The history of these things is interesting.

I had another thought about this Barracuda.----If it did make it to a metal shell did it also get a new name?

Suppose it was called a groper or tuna? ----My point is chrysler used names for cars sometimes when the logic seems lost. Like the four door charger---what's up with that? A nice looking car but not a charger

[ECS]

Something this odd would have left a paper trail...Good Luck, ECS!    I know what you are up against!!   

I talked to one of my Chrysler contacts today and they said the old paperwork might not have made it through the 3 Company buyouts that have taken place over the years.  Any paper work that was confidential might have been destroyed instead of being moved during the mergers.  The best bet will be going to Chrysler Historical and hope that there is still something in their archives.  I know a person who works there and will be calling him first thing in the morning.  I also have meetings scheduled there next month and will see if I can personally go through whatever archived data they still have.

[resq302]

Uh... now Brian, I want make sure that we get two coats of wax this time. Not just one

Tom,

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to fix the Mr. Fusion yet to convert power so I can get the Delorean up to 88 mph to travel back to 1969 and take the needed pictures  so everyone can rest easy here.  Maybe next time I will buy a Delorean instead of a charger.

[ECS]

Me too---The history of these things is interesting.

Chrysler made COMPLETE Concepts that never made it into production.  They "wasted" money just like the other automobile Manufacturers.  It can no longer be said a 4 Door prototype wasn't feasible due to the fact that Chrysler didn't have sufficient funds.  They obviously did!  It can no longer be said  that they wouldn't design something that wasn't logical with respect to certain design features.  They obviously designed them and then completely destroyed them!  

This 1967 Concept Barracuda (shown below) dismisses any of those objections even if you choose not to believe that a 4 door Barracuda was actually built.  The possibility does however exist that there was a 4 Door Barracuda as described in Roger Johnson's commentary.  If Chrysler could afford to engineer, build and destroy a newly designed vehicle then they could afford to have commissioned their Coach-work affiliates to add two doors to a 1970 Barracuda that was engineered around their "new" 1971 B Body design.

[dyslexic teddybear]

Me too---The history of these things is interesting.

Chrysler made COMPLETE Concepts that never made it into production.  They "wasted" money just like the other automobile Manufacturers.  It can no longer be said a 4 Door prototype wasn't feasible due to the fact that Chrysler didn't have sufficient funds.  They obviously did!  It can no longer be said  that they wouldn't design something that wasn't logical with respect to certain design features.  They obviously designed them and then completely destroyed them!  

This 1967 Concept Barracuda (shown below) dismisses any of those objections even if you choose not to believe that a 4 door Barracuda was actually built.  The possibility does however exist that there was a 4 Door Barracuda as described in Roger Johnson's commentary.  If Chrysler could afford to engineer, build and destroy a newly designed vehicle then they could afford to have commissioned their Coach-work affiliates to add two doors to a 1970 Barracuda that was engineered around their "new" 1971 B Body design.

Interesting.......a 2 door concept.......proves they would design/build a 4door concept......

You do bring up an excellent point about concepts......I see a lot design cues that appeared on other models.....not exact designs......but it's quite plain to me where the inspiration came from. That was a beautiful car. And I don't think they wasted one penny on it......they got a lot of inspiration for other cars.

It also brings up another point......did Chrysler ever build a 4 door concept in that time frame? Off-hand, I can't think of any.....

Still patiently/eagerly waiting for documentation. If it's out there.....I'm confident a tenacious person such as yourself will find it. Good luck.

[69CoronetRT]

I agree!  Why would GM have ever wanted to make a 4 Door version of their Corvette?  What was the purpose for "wasting time & money" on that concept car?  Or the 4 Door Javelin?  Or the 4 Door 1965 Mustang?  Or the 4 Door 1967 Firebird? 

I'm trying real hard to stay on the sidelines and avoid the flying poo, but there was already history for exploring that concept.

The migration of a two door sports car to a four door sports/luxury car had already been successful. The T-Bird.

Just as it was logical for all makers to have a car to compete with the Mustang, it was logical for them to steal ideas from each other and develop their own similar car.
"They have one. What do we need to do to have one too?"

Dave, I think what you are doing is an interesting exercise in engineering. I applaud your efforts to try and do something different in the hobby. Is it your intention to put that fake VIN tag on the car?

[ECS]

What this proves is that tuff cat was completely wrong about Ford & Gm not making 4 Door concept cars.  Contrary to tuff cats other observations, it proves that Chrysler DID have money to make Concept cars.  They DID make cars that they knew would never make it into production.  Below are a a few of his quotes that we wasted time debating about.  This doesn't prove the 4 Door Barracuda Concept was made but is does eliminate all of his incorrect observations and flawed OPINIONS about what was happening at Chrysler back then!

"Oh come now, surely one would think that it  "must have happened" because building such car sounds like SUCH A GOOD IDEA...!!   ...oh yes, and SUCH AN EXCELLENT use of valuable TIME AND RESOURCES  to make a 4-door version of Chryslers first year Pony car when NOBODY ELSE WAS DOING IT!!  (Ford and GM)

NOT to mention a BRAND NEW PLATFORM ( called the 1971 B-Body) was currently being developed....SO DO YOU THINK CHRYSLER WOULD SPEND ALL THIS EXTRA MONEY (THEY DIDN'T HAVE AT THE TIME) TO HAND FABRICATE A FOUR DOOR BARRACUDA THAT WAS NEVER PART OF THE PRODUCT PLAN EVER!!!!   - - Just for giggles?  

If such a car EVER EXISTED people like my Dad would have known about. Its a FAKE, a FARSE, and a FABRICATION of FANTASY!    

One more thing for you non-believers to ponder....the process of "styling a vehicle" was not as simple as grafting an existing front and rear onto another body. Chrysler would NEVER have gone through "such an exercise" in those days......ESPECIALLY to its sporty short wheel base design vehicle....  

Finally, "IF" such an abortion was ever to be created, then one or more "clay bucks" would have been built first....and that would have been expensive.

Chrysler Engineering wasn't like "Romper Room" with a bunch of guys in the corner of the experimental metal shop playing with welders and torches"

[TUFCAT]

What this proves is that tuff cat was completely wrong about Ford & Gm not making 4 Door concept cars.  Contrary to tuff cats other observations, it proves that Chrysler DID have money to make Concept cars.  They DID make cars that they knew would never make it into production.  Below are a a few of his quotes that we wasted time debating about.  This doesn't prove the 4 Door Barracuda Concept was made but is does eliminate all of his incorrect observations and flawed OPINIONS about what was happening at Chrysler back then!

"Oh come now, surely one would think that it  "must have happened" because building such car sounds like SUCH A GOOD IDEA...!!   ...oh yes, and SUCH AN EXCELLENT use of valuable TIME AND RESOURCES  to make a 4-door version of Chryslers first year Pony car when NOBODY ELSE WAS DOING IT!!  (Ford and GM)

NOT to mention a BRAND NEW PLATFORM ( called the 1971 B-Body) was currently being developed....SO DO YOU THINK CHRYSLER WOULD SPEND ALL THIS EXTRA MONEY (THEY DIDN'T HAVE AT THE TIME) TO HAND FABRICATE A FOUR DOOR BARRACUDA THAT WAS NEVER PART OF THE PRODUCT PLAN EVER!!!!   - - Just for giggles? 

If such a car EVER EXISTED people like my Dad would have known about. Its a FAKE, a FARSE, and a FABRICATION of FANTASY!   

One more thing for you non-believers to ponder....the process of "styling a vehicle" was not as simple as grafting an existing front and rear onto another body. Chrysler would NEVER have gone through "such an exercise" in those days......ESPECIALLY to its sporty short wheel base design vehicle.... 

Finally, "IF" such an abortion was ever to be created, then one or more "clay bucks" would have been built first....and that would have been expensive.

Chrysler Engineering wasn't like "Romper Room" with a bunch of guys in the corner of the experimental metal shop playing with welders and torches"

[ECS]

Just as it was logical for all makers to have a car to compete with the Mustang, it was logical for them to steal ideas from each other and develop their own similar car.
"They have one. What do we need to do to have one too?"

Which is why I believe that Roger Johnson saw the 4 Door Barracuda that he said he saw!  I believe that Chrysler was also involved with a 4 Door Concept of their Barracuda just like Ford's with their 4 Door Mustang or AMC's 4 Door Javelin or Pontiac's 4 Door Firebird........!

Dave, I think what you are doing is an interesting exercise in engineering. I applaud your efforts to try and do something different in the hobby. Is it your intention to put that fake VIN tag on the car?

I contacted Chrysler and the DMV to get approval for the assigned VIN.  It is a number that will never be confused for a regular production vehicle and the car will not be used for registered transportation.  Thanks for your input!

[69CoronetRT]

I contacted Chrysler and the DMV to get approval for the assigned VIN.  It is a number that will never be confused for a regular production vehicle and the car will not be used for registered transportation.  Thanks for your input!

Yes it can't be confused for a regular production VIN.

Frankly it is easier to imagine Chrysler spending the time and money on a four door Barracuda concept car than it is to imagine that Product Planning would have EVER allowed a 340 in a four door. THAT would NEVER happen!!!!

[ECS]

THAT would NEVER happen!!!!

That was the great thing about Concept Cars.  They were a test bed for things that might have "NEVER" happened in a regular production vehicle so EVERYTHING was fair game !

[AKcharger]

Wow Great thread! I mean it's like a boxing match!

Page 1 "And the match starts out a little slow as both contestants enter the ring...but BAM! out of now where TUFCAT lands some quick body blows to ECS. ECS staggers a bit then comes back swinging, landing a few good punches on the cat"

Page 2 "TUFCAT continues the relentless pummeling, ECS offers a good defense but through the relentless pounding TUFCAT has ECS on the ropes, this might be a short fight"

Page 3 "...and what do we have here! ECS is able to tag RESQ302 who quickly enters the ring and lands some sucker punches to TUFCAT while he's distracted on ECS, oh, this could be a different fight here ladies and gentlemen"

Page 4 "Well looks like the worm has turn in this match, TUFCAT is sent staggering as RESQ302 continues the assault while a reinvigorated ECS rejoins the fight in earnest. TUFCAT is getting wobbly, he's visibly tiring...Looks like he's about to go down any minute. Whoa, TUFCAT lands a surprise uppercut to RESQ302 with a  You tube video depicting him as "Chester" the sycophantic dog...but it's not enough TUFCAT is going down"

Page 5 " Hold everything ladies and Gentlemen! who is this, we have a new contender...DYSLEXIC TEDDYBEAR! Could this get any more exciting! DYSLEXIC TEDDYBEAR doesn't seem to land many hard blows right off the bat but he is serving to draw the heat off TUFCAT...who defiantly needs the rest. Wait wait...TUFCAT is back! it's a full out brawl ECS, RESQ302, TUFCAT and DYSLEXIC TEDDYBEAR the punches are flying ladies and gentlemen...it's a free for all, Who saw this coming!!!"

Page 6 " As we move into round 6 we find 69CORONETRT out in the audience throwing things in the ring but the question remains what side is he on and will he actively jump in? It's anyone guess, But we do know that TUFCAT has got a second wind but ECS seems steadfast and isn't giving ground it's still anyone's match ladies and gentlemen..."

Don't stop now guys!!!!!  

[TUFCAT]

Wow Great thread! I mean it's like a boxing match!

Page 1 "And the match starts out a little slow as both contestants enter the ring...but BAM! out of now where TUFCAT lands some quick body blows to ECS. ECS staggers a bit then comes back swinging, landing a few good punches on the cat"

Page 2 "TUFCAT continues the relentless pummeling, ECS offers a good defense but through the relentless pounding TUFCAT has ECS on the ropes, this might be a short fight"

Page 3 "...and what do we have here! ECS is able to tag RESQ302 who quickly enters the ring and lands some sucker punches to TUFCAT while he's distracted on ECS, oh, this could be a different fight here ladies and gentlemen"

Page 4 "Well looks like the worm has turn in this match, TUFCAT is sent staggering as RESQ302 continues the assault while a reinvigorated ECS rejoins the fight in earnest. TUFCAT is getting wobbly, he's visibly tiring...Looks like he's about to go down any minute. Whoa, TUFCAT lands a surprise uppercut to RESQ302 with a  You tube video depicting him as "Chester" the sycophantic dog...but it's not enough TUFCAT is going down"

Page 5 " Hold everything ladies and Gentlemen! who is this, we have a new contender...DYSLEXIC TEDDYBEAR! Could this get any more exciting! DYSLEXIC TEDDYBEAR doesn't seem to land many hard blows right off the bat but he is serving to draw the heat off TUFCAT...who defiantly needs the rest. Wait wait...TUFCAT is back! it's a full out brawl ECS, RESQ302, TUFCAT and DYSLEXIC TEDDYBEAR the punches are flying ladies and gentlemen...it's a free for all, Who saw this coming!!!"

Page 6 " As we move into round 6 we find 69CORONETRT out in the audience throwing things in the ring but the question remains what side is he on and will he actively jump in? It's anyone guess, But we do know that TUFCAT has got a second wind but ECS seems steadfast and isn't giving ground it's still anyone's match ladies and gentlemen..."

Don't stop now guys!!!!! 

AK, thanks man,  it was a much needed moment of laughter.  

Also your "play by play" commentary was worthy of the best of the best.... I don't think even Howard Cosell could have called it better.  

[ECS]

ECS staggers a bit....

You must be watching a completely different match up!    The only thing I have seen is a bunch of dancing and backpedaling from one contradiction to another.  First he says they "NEVER" did this or that!  Then he acknowledges they DID do it but here is why they did it!  And Roger Johnson who said he did see the 4 Door Barracuda is considered a "NOBODY" because he's not his Dad.......and if his Dad didn't see it then it never existed.   

Of course old Kit Kat doesn't have an explanation for the Barracuda SX because it trumps his opinion about Chrysler not wasting money on Concept cars.  One contradiction after another.  This was actually a one punch, first round knockout against the unprepared feline!


One of the MANY examples of TUFFY'S CONTRADICTING QUOTES:

"....to make a 4-door version of Chryslers first year Pony car when NOBODY ELSE WAS DOING IT!!  (Ford and GM)"

"....One more thing before you further embarrass yourself with comparisons,.... just because other manufacturers were toying with the 4 door idea (as in Mustang's early development and your other whimsical examples)"

[TUFCAT]

ECS staggers a bit....

You must be watching a completely different match up!    The only thing I have seen is a bunch of dancing and backpedaling from one contradiction to another.  First he says they "NEVER" did this or that!  Then he acknowledges they DID do it but here is why they did it!  And Roger Johnson who said he did see the 4 Door Barracuda is considered a "NOBODY" because he's not his Dad.......and if his Dad didn't see it then it never existed.    

Of course old Kit Kat doesn't have an explanation for the Barracuda SX because it trumps his opinion about Chrysler not wasting money on Concept cars.  One contradiction after another.  This was actually a one punch, first round knockout against the unprepared feline!

One of the MANY examples of TUFFY'S CONTRADICTING QUOTES:

"....to make a 4-door version of Chryslers first year Pony car when NOBODY ELSE WAS DOING IT!!  (Ford and GM)"

"....One more thing before you further embarrass yourself with comparisons,.... just because other manufacturers were toying with the 4 door idea (as in Mustang's early development and your other whimsical examples)"

....

[wingcar]

I found this "photoshop" picture (along with the one below) some time ago on Aaron Beck's E-body site.  Unless someone comes up with proof, in the form of office paperwork or a photo, it is and will remain just someone's idea of what a 4dr E-body would look like.   I can't believe all those who actually buy into the fact that Chrysler would have made one of these.   Why would they?  They already had 4dr B-bodies, and I can't see a 4dr E-body being that big a seller......

Bottomline, don't believe everything you see on the internet...even if it was posted by a French model.....

[JB400]

It don't stink if you don't stir it.

The pot was stirred on the first page when it was insinuated that I was a liar, trying to mislead people with this "fantasy" of a "cobbled up abortion" project that "NEVER EXISTED".  I just want to make sure that those who made those bold, condescending and rude statements are still swimming in that same "stink" pot before I lower the boom!  

A pot wasn't exactly what I was thinking of, but if your cooking is that bad......     


I'd rather just see progress pix of the build unless you're just looking at getting this thread locked

[AKcharger]

Well Hold on there wingcar...Dodge did build two prototype challenger station wagons...look, see. Although the factory paperwork is missing  

[ECS]

I can't believe all those who actually buy into the fact that Chrysler would have made one of these.   Why would they?  They already had 4dr B-bodies.....

Apparently, you think Chrysler was completely different than the other Automobile Manufacturers!  Could you please provide answers regarding what you "believe" as to why the following series of Concept cars (pictured below) were built?  Using your way of thinking, why would Chrysler have built the Diamonte and never used the design features for anything else?  Why would GM have built a 4 Door Concept Corvette when they already made a 4 Door Impala?  Why would AMC (WHO HAD EVEN LESS MONEY THAT CHRYSLER) build a 4 Door Concept Javelin when they already had a 4 Door Matador?  Why would Pontiac have built a Gull Wing Station Wagon Trans Am when they already had a Safari Station Wagon?  It is obvious that the Automobile Manufacturers DID have discretionary funds set aside for experimenting with Concepts that were never meant to be anything other than a Concept vehicle!  How many of you watching this thread knew about the 1967 Barracuda SX (or these other Concepts Cars) before I posted pictures of them?