4 Door Plymouth Barracuda

[JB400]

It don't stink if you don't stir it.

[ECS]

It don't stink if you don't stir it.

The pot was stirred on the first page when it was insinuated that I was a liar, trying to mislead people with this "fantasy" of a "cobbled up abortion" project that "NEVER EXISTED".  I just want to make sure that those who made those bold, condescending and rude statements are still swimming in that same "stink" pot before I lower the boom! 

[TUFCAT]

Do you still stand firm on the quote and comments (listed above) that you made on the first page of this thread?  YES or NO?  

The pot was stirred on the first page when it was insinuated that I was a liar, trying to mislead people with this "fantasy" of a "cobbled up abortion" project that "NEVER EXISTED".  I just want to make sure that those who made those bold, condescending and rude statements are still swimming in that same "stink" pot before I lower the boom!  

"Lower the Boom"?   Do whatever you have to do, especially if it helps you find the truth.  

If you were serious about knowing the truth you would have found it by now.

I would have given you a gold plated road map to the truth. I would have paved your way with contact information of at least a dozen good guys with strong credentials, like retired design office product planners, and executives from advanced vehicle engineering.

But you wouldn't have listened to them anyway.. you already have all the answers you needed.

So I've come to the conclusion that I've said "all there is to say" quite frankly....

Roger Johnson is a legit freelance guy in the automotive history world. I'm sure even he realizes, if someone actually saw such a car, it can't be considered evidence and published as "fact".  Proper historical proof in this context requires investigation and hard evidence.  

You still probably don't care. So I'll just go away......I only wish I hadn't wasted four pages getting to this conclusion.  

[ECS]

All that writing and you didn't have the time to answer a simple YES or NO question.  Do you still stand firm on your comment listed below?

........SUCH AN EXCELLENT use of valuable TIME AND RESOURCES......NOT to mention a BRAND NEW PLATFORM....SO DO YOU THINK CHRYSLER WOULD SPEND ALL THIS EXTRA MONEY (THEY DIDN'T HAVE AT THE TIME) TO HAND FABRICATE A FOUR DOOR BARRACUDA THAT WAS NEVER PART OF THE PRODUCT PLAN- - Just for giggles?

[TUFCAT]

  I said I was done..... I'm no longer "wagging the dragon's tail".    

[resq302]

   I said I was done.  I'm no longer "wagging the dragon's tail". 

If you said you were done, why do you keep replying?

[ECS]

Roger Johnson is a legit freelance guy in the automotive history world. I'm sure even he realizes, if someone actually saw such a car, it can't be considered evidence and published as "fact".  Proper historical proof in this context requires investigation and hard evidence.

HE saw the car!  You think that him "seeing" it was not real to him and he didn't consider it "fact" when he saw it?  I guess he was just lying when he wrote about what he saw.....right?  You are certainly a genus when it comes to telling others what they think and feel about their experiences and situations.  I guess the History of the Revolutionary war is fictional because it was ONLY documented by people who wrote about what they saw and experienced at the time.  They didn't have cameras to document the "proof" so I guess everything prior to the invention of the camera cannot be considered hard evidence.  

[ECS]

If you said you were done, why do you keep replying?

He won't provide an answer because even he is worried about what is soon to take place!   

[charger Downunder]

Enough is enough just get back to work on that 4 Door Plymouth Barracuda and get it rolling.

[bill440rt]

This is becoming quite a controversy. 
Does Roger Johnson know he is being questioned on his authority? Is he aware of this thread? If he has anything to say, maybe he should speak up as well? 

[TUFCAT]

This is becoming quite a controversy.  
Does Roger Johnson know he is being questioned on his authority? Is he aware of this thread? If he has anything to say, maybe he should speak up as well?  

Good prediction Bill.  I'm sure its coming.   Get ready to go backwards.... like all the way back to the top of page 2!

[dyslexic teddybear]

 

Kinda interesting. Sorta cool.

Can't help but think......a 4 dr E-body is an answer to a question that was never seriously asked.

[ECS]

This is becoming quite a controversy.  
Does Roger Johnson know he is being questioned on his authority? Is he aware of this thread? If he has anything to say, maybe he should speak up as well?  

I sent him an email yesterday.   He doesn't know about this thread and I did not tell him of the disrespect that some are expressing here.  I received additional information yesterday with some photos of a Plymouth Barracuda that was nothing like any car that Chrysler had ever manufactured.  I also received information about the Coach builders that were used by Chrysler for many of their Concept cars.  I'll post some of that information tomorrow.  I personally know one of the guys at Chrysler Historical and will see if he can dig up data or let me rummage through the archives.   Part of the problem is that Chrysler moved their old records years ago and many were destroyed when they transferred ownership of the Company.  Most Concept designs were classified and never meant to be public.

I will say AGAIN!!!!  We are making this vehicle based on the verbiage and synopsis given by Roger Johnson.  It's as simple as it is.  We are not saying that this is the car that Roger saw.  We are just doing something different based on what he said he witnessed.  The only controversy is that some here are accusing him of either being confused or lying about his recollection.

[TUFCAT]

Can't help but think......a 4 dr E-body is an answer to a question that was never seriously asked.

I hear you teddybear.... !   Was that question: "Let's build a four door sedan with a trunk big enough to fit a Thermos bottle"?  

"Yesser"!!  "Sounds great, now build a running and driving " prototype"...but make sure NOBODY sees it, and no photographs are taken of it"  YESSIR!!  

Top Secret Sir!!  

[ECS]

Kinda interesting. Sorta cool.

Can't help but think......a 4 dr E-body is an answer to a question that was never seriously asked.

I agree!  Why would GM have ever wanted to make a 4 Door version of their Corvette?  What was the purpose for "wasting time & money" on that concept car?  Or the 4 Door Javelin?  Or the 4 Door 1965 Mustang?  Or the 4 Door 1967 Firebird?  Wait till you see the Barracuda that Plymouth engineered (and built) before deciding on their 1970 production version!

[ECS]

Can't help but think......a 4 dr E-body is an answer to a question that was never seriously asked.
I hear you teddybear.... !   Was that question: "Let's build a four door sedan with a trunk big enough to fit a Thermos bottle"?  
"Yesser"!!  "Sounds great, now build a running and driving " prototype"...but make sure NOBODY sees it, and no photographs are taken of it"  YESSIR!!   Top Secret Sir!!  

What's your problem?  This has nothing to do with you, hasn't cost you a penny, a moment of your time and quite frankly is none of your business.  If you spent as much time working on your wrecked survivor as you have spent gripping about this project, you would have finished it months ago.

.......and the "NOBODY" that saw it and wrote about it was Automotive Historian and Chrysler Employee Roger Johnson.

4-Door Barracuda
As an employee of Chrysler Corporation in 1969-70, I had the opportunity to see many things the "general public" never
did.  Not because I was that  important, but because I worked in the mail room and delivering the mail was that
important. One such sight was a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda.  It was parked for only about two days on a kind of  
loading dock attached to the back of Chrysler's World Headquarters building in their Highland Park complex.  This was
around November of 1969.  The dock seemed to be a temporary holding cell for an assortment of interesting cars.  It was
the same building Lynn Townsend, Virgil Boyd and more importantly Tom Hoover worked in. Naturally, Chrysler never
made a 4-door Barracuda but the one I saw looked surprisingly good.  I always assumed it was created around a B-body
chassis because the proportions still looked just right despite the obvious body stretch necessary  to pull it off. Having
seen this car is even more significant now since the Autoweek story about Ford using their new Mustang platform to
build other, less sporty cars - like a 4-door.

[resq302]

I said I was done..... I'm no longer "wagging the dragon's tail".    

Dave,

That must not be Tom talking per his above quote!      

[dyslexic teddybear]

Big fan of history.......especially Mopar history.

From that, I am really interested in what turns up on this. I'm a bit skeptical of a young mans memory from 69......about something seen just in passing. Just a glance of a car sitting on a loading dock.......

As to the other 4 door "concepts" mentioned......GM/Ford had a lot more budget to do such projects.

JMO......one of the big reasons I stayed loyal to Mopars, is I always felt they engineered better then the competition, and less on useless styling exercises.

TUFFY makes a good point......who in there right mind would spend that kind of coin on a 4 dr with that small a trunk? It just doesn't seem to fit with Mopars design/engineering of that time.  

 

[resq302]

Wasn't there other cars (GM and Ford) that had 4 door cars with small trunks?

[TUFCAT]

Uh... now Brian, I want make sure that we get two coats of wax this time. Not just one

[ECS]

I'm a bit skeptical of a young mans memory from 69......about something seen just in passing. Just a glance of a car sitting on a loading dock.......

Kind of like Carroll Shelby and/or Tom Hoover when they gave verbal accounts of their earlier days in the Industry.  We never question those people do we?!  Their depictions as "young men" are taken as gospel.  When I read Roger's story I don't see any place where he says it was a passing glance.  I do see where he says the car was sitting out there for 2 days which tells me he noticed it to a greater degree than some of you here are willing to admit.  He also had the wherewithal to know it was out of the ordinary by the fact that he says it was.  I highly doubt a person who has spent their life documenting and writing about automobiles just took a quick glance at something so unique.

[dyslexic teddybear]

I'm a bit skeptical of a young mans memory from 69......about something seen just in passing. Just a glance of a car sitting on a loading dock.......

Kind of like Carroll Shelby and/or Tom Hoover when they gave verbal accounts of their earlier days in the Industry.  We never question those people do we?!  Their depictions as "young men" are taken as gospel.  When I read Roger's story I don't see any place where he says it was a passing glance.  I do see where he says the car was sitting out there for 2 days which tells me he noticed it to a greater degree than some of you here are willing to admit.  He also had the wherewithal to know it was out of the ordinary by the fact that he says it was.  I highly doubt a person who has spent their life documenting and writing about automobiles just took a quick glance at something so unique.

Interesting.....so you are saying when he was a mailroom guy at Chrysler......he knew he was destined to spend his life documenting and writing about automobiles?

A very unique young man. Certainly, some people do have a plan.....

Eagerly looking forward to some documentation.

[ECS]

Interesting.....so you are saying when he was a mailroom guy at Chrysler......he knew he was destined to spend his life documenting and writing about automobiles?

I was simply trying to express that NOWHERE did he say that he saw it in a passing glance.  He was 23 years old at the time.  He obviously had a greater degree of comprehension that you guys are giving him by the fact that he gave details on the design and the platform it was built on.  It also must have had a greater impact on his memory than you guys are willing to admit as demonstrated by his writing about it some 40 years later.  As someone involved with these cars, I can EASILY remember things that happened through the Journey that got me where I am today.  Like I said, if you're going to discount the recollection of this guy because he was young, could you tell me what age we can start believing the stories of guys like Larry Shinoda, Carl Cammeron,  John Delorian, Bill Collins, Herb Adams, Richard Petty, etc....?

[dyslexic teddybear]

As I said, some do have a plan.....

Just unusual. Just as Chrysler taking the time/money to design/build a 4 door with a more or less useless trunk is  well, more then unusual. I am personally familiar with an E-body trunk. I have a Challenger.

I am VERY skeptical Chrysler, with their limited available funds, would spend a chunk of those funds, on a 4 door with a small trunk.



Again, eagerly waiting on documentation. I may be skeptical, but have heard many, many times about Chrysler.....never say never.

[TUFCAT]

As I said, some do have a plan.....

Just unusual. Just as Chrysler taking the time/money to design/build a 4 door with a more or less useless trunk is  well, more then unusual. I am personally familiar with an E-body trunk. I have a Challenger.

I am VERY skeptical Chrysler, with their limited available funds, would spend a chunk of those funds, on a 4 door with a small trunk.



Again, eagerly waiting on documentation. I may be skeptical, but have heard many, many times about Chrysler.....never say never.