4 Door Plymouth Barracuda

[tsmithae]

Also, I think it'd be tits to paint it like a patrol car and really creep out the squares!

Yes!! 

[Mike DC]

                    
I find this thread amusing.  Everyone is so quickly agreeing that it would have been stupid for Mopar to build a pair of overlapping B/E-body four-door cars back in the day.  


This is the same forum which has spent 5+ years absolutely screaming at Mopar for not building a pair of overlapping B/E two-dooor cars today.  It would be every bit as illogical in the modern 4dr-dominated market.

 

[Baldwinvette77]

Nice, its a "BE" body now  

[TUFCAT]

Personally, I like the concept and don't care if a real, physical car existed.  There is some amazing work going on there and I am very interested in watching the progress.  Best of all, none of our precious classics have been sacrificed (yes, I understand there was a 4 door b-body that was pulled from a junkyard and given a new life).  

"Personally speaking" - so do I . I can add my two cents that I think its ugly and a huge waste of $100,000 (or more)...but as an fabrication effort its a first class show piece of what can be accomplished with the talent at Dave Walden's shop.

My issue has always been with Mr. Walden passing this off as a tribute to "an actual car built by Chrysler in 1969" - a major automaker employing thousands of people

There is absolutely no proof. Wouldn't it be prudent to have some existing actual proof before embarking on such an extreme and costly effort?  

Maybe he thought  "IF I BUILD IT, IT WILL COME"  

Like I said before, the general public and myself included, would have more respect for you if you simply said  - -  I built this car because I have more money than I know what to do with, nobody else can do what I can,  because I can, and I want to be different and make a statement!  

Can you imagine the controversy involved when this car actually hits the ground completed. Without proof such a car was ever built by Chrysler... this type of discussion is just the "tip of the iceberg" so you better get ready for more people like me calling you out! ...maybe even a few magazines!

Bottom Line: this is a "DAVE WALDEN DESIGN STUDY" - NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS  

Furthermore, its appalling that you are so arrogant. Instead of "looking for answers" (from people my Dad and his friends from advanced engineering at Chrysler in the early '70's).....you think you have "ALL THE ANSWERS"!!!

I lose interest when it's all about winning a debate on "EGO" - - rather than having an intellectually honest discussion.  It that respect - - you've already lost.  

[ECS]

I find this thread amusing.

So do I.    One particular person posting here is completely delusional.  A "$100,000" price tag?  "Dave Walden's Shop"?    Where does this person get his hallucinational information from?  I obtained my data from Automotive Historian/Expert Roger Johnson.  He must have obtained his "proof" from a bottle of Jack Daniels.    

[resq302]

Personally, I like the concept and don't care if a real, physical car existed.  There is some amazing work going on there and I am very interested in watching the progress.  Best of all, none of our precious classics have been sacrificed (yes, I understand there was a 4 door b-body that was pulled from a junkyard and given a new life).  

"Personally speaking" - so do I . I can add my two cents that I think its ugly and a huge waste of $100,000 (or more)...but as an fabrication effort its a first class show piece of what can be accomplished with the talent at Dave Walden's shop.

My issue has always been with Mr. Walden passing this off as a tribute to "an actual car built by Chrysler in 1969" - a major automaker employing thousands of people

There is absolutely no proof. Wouldn't it be prudent to have some existing actual proof before embarking on such an extreme and costly effort?  

Maybe he thought  "IF I BUILD IT, IT WILL COME"  

Like I said before, the general public and myself included, would have more respect for you if you simply said  - -  I built this car because I have more money than I know what to do with, nobody else can do what I can,  because I can, and I want to be different and make a statement!  

Can you imagine the controversy involved when this car actually hits the ground completed. Without proof such a car was ever built by Chrysler... this type of discussion is just the "tip of the iceberg" so you better get ready for more people like me calling you out! ...maybe even a few magazines!

Bottom Line: this is a "DAVE WALDEN DESIGN STUDY" - NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS  

Furthermore, its appalling that you are so arrogant. Instead of "looking for answers" (from people my Dad and his friends from advanced engineering at Chrysler in the early '70's).....you think you have "ALL THE ANSWERS"!!!

I lose interest when it's all about winning a debate on "EGO" - - rather than having an intellectually honest discussion.  It that respect - - you've already lost.  

So all of those cars that he posted pictures of would be considered a far cry of imagination since you did not physically see it?  Would you have believed that the Tomahawk actually existed unless you physically saw it?  Honestly, why would Chrysler build 3 or 4 of them when they do not sell motorcycles?  Seems like a HUGE waste of money to me.  Again, just because there isn't pictures of something doesn't mean that it didn't exist at some point.  New species are still being discovered inside the rain forests.  Who knows, maybe a photo will eventually turn up.     I guess all of the things that have been at the Worlds Fair never existed either unless someone back then decided to snap a picture of it .

If a well known and respected automotive historian in the field such as Roger Johnson said he saw it, well, I gotta believe he saw it.  Just the same as if a well known ballistics guy provided testimony that something could be done, I'd take his word on it too as an expert witness.

[ECS]

If a well known and respected automotive historian in the field such as Roger Johnson said he saw it, well, I gotta believe he saw it.  Just the same as if a well known ballistics guy provided testimony that something could be done, I'd take his word on it too as an expert witness.

Consider one of the statements made in his last post:

"Furthermore, its appalling that you are so arrogant. Instead of "looking for answers" (from people my Dad and his friends from advanced engineering at Chrysler in the early '70's).....you think you have "ALL THE ANSWERS"!!!"

He just described himself and doesn't have the sense to realize it!  HE is the arrogant one that will not accept information from anyone other than HIS sources.  Roger Johnson was ALSO a Chrysler employee and said he saw the car!  Dave Stuart (a current Executive for Chrysler) has also provided data and information regarding the scenario.  Chrysler had THOUSANDS of Employees doing different things and working on various projects.  To think that his Father knew EVERYTHING happening in EVERY department in the Company is the only real arrogance here.

[TUFCAT]

Consider one of the statements made in his last post:

"Furthermore, its appalling that you are so arrogant. Instead of "looking for answers" (from people my Dad and his friends from advanced engineering at Chrysler in the early '70's).....you think you have "ALL THE ANSWERS"!!!"

He just described himself and doesn't have the sense to realize it!  HE is the arrogant one that will not accept information from anyone other than HIS sources.  Roger Johnson was ALSO a Chrysler employee and said he saw the car!  Dave Stuart (a current Executive for Chrysler) has also provided data and information regarding the scenario.  Chrysler had THOUSANDS of Employees doing different things and working on various projects.  To think that his Father knew EVERYTHING happening in EVERY department in the Company is the only real arrogance here.

Dave, since we've gotten to be such buddies on this thread, I'm going to do you a HUGE FAVOR... 

I'm going to send this topic to all of the major automotive magazines for their input. 

Maybe they'll write an article about you and even feature your car! 

It will be great.  You can thank me later.  With this kind of "exposure" certainly everyone will be offering up that all elusive "proof" that you've been so desperately looking for.

I only hope your "mailman expert" turns out to be as credible as your regional sales rep friend who said "all TA's were driven 1500 miles before delivery".

Dave, you make some spot on restoration parts, but you are far and away one of the most arrogant, stubborn, and fact twisting people I have ever encountered in this hobby.

[TUFCAT]

Oh, ...and Brian, this one's for you. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVNHcob3oJg

[resq302]

Consider one of the statements made in his last post:

"Furthermore, its appalling that you are so arrogant. Instead of "looking for answers" (from people my Dad and his friends from advanced engineering at Chrysler in the early '70's).....you think you have "ALL THE ANSWERS"!!!"

He just described himself and doesn't have the sense to realize it!  HE is the arrogant one that will not accept information from anyone other than HIS sources.  Roger Johnson was ALSO a Chrysler employee and said he saw the car!  Dave Stuart (a current Executive for Chrysler) has also provided data and information regarding the scenario.  Chrysler had THOUSANDS of Employees doing different things and working on various projects.  To think that his Father knew EVERYTHING happening in EVERY department in the Company is the only real arrogance here.

Dave, since we've gotten to be such buddies on this thread, I'm going to do you a HUGE FAVOR... 

I'm going to send this topic to all of the major automotive magazines for their input. 

Maybe they'll write an article about you and even feature your car! 

Dave, you make some spot on restoration parts, but you are far and away one of the most arrogant, stubborn, and fact twisting people I have ever encountered in this hobby.

Tuffy,

I am quite sure that once Dave brings this car around to shows, the magazines and media coverage will come to him!  Might as well save your energy.    

Also, aren't you kind of calling the kettle black?  Or is it just that each person has their own opinion of things (which is perfectly ok!)  Everything that you have been accusing Dave of is the same stuff that you have using for you.  You say that he is using here-say as the basis to build this car yet you say that your father worked for Chrysler also and never saw it.  There for it must be true.  As others have said, if you don't like it...... don't look.  No reason to go cutting down someone elses opinion of what could have been just because there are no pictures of it which have surfaced yet.  Again, I refer to all of the innovations that were at the Worlds Fair of years past.  Im sure that there were some great ideas that went by the way side and some major flops but just because there are no pictures of it to surface, doesn't mean that it never existed.

[ECS]

Also, aren't you kind of calling the kettle black?

If you don't agree with them,  then you must be arrogant and stubborn.  When they don't agree with you, it's because they hold the only rational view in the debate.  Hypocrisy at its best!   No one has to worry about the car getting Magazine coverage.  I wouldn't let the editor Hack (that plays butt monkey to the restoration hack & "parts supplier") cover anything on this project.

One last thing Brian.  After watching that video clip that we are featured in, I would appreciate if you wouldn't slap me around when I ask you so many questions.  I really liked the Red shirt that you were wearing in the video though!  It reminds me of the Red Concept 4 Door Barracuda that Roger Johnson saw when he worked for Chrysler in 1969.  

[TUFCAT]

Also, aren't you kind of calling the kettle black?

If you don't agree with them,  then you must be arrogant and stubborn.  When they don't agree with you, it's because they hold the only rational view in the debate.  Hypocrisy at its best!   No one has to worry about the car getting Magazine coverage.  I wouldn't let the editor Hack (that plays butt monkey to the restoration hack & "parts supplier") cover anything on this project.

One last thing Brian.  After watching that video clip that we are featured in, I would appreciate if you wouldn't slap me around when I ask you so many questions.  I really liked the Red shirt that you were wearing in the video though!  It reminds me of the Red Concept 4 Door Barracuda that Roger Johnson saw when he worked for Chrysler in 1969.  

Peace and Love brothers...., TUFCAT out.

[Davtona]

Not sure why there is all the static about the project.   If you don't like it, don't look.    If you don't believe it existed, fine.  

The car is going to be done whether folks like it or not.     Even craptastic projects by board members usually get cheerleader like responses here.     Even if you don't like it, Dave's project will be of first rate quality.    

Furthermore, its appalling that you are so arrogant.

He's not the only one on this board that way if you get my drift.

[bill440rt]

Unicorns might exist, although I've never seen one. Same goes for Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. 

I do applaud the workmanship & scope of this build, and I think it's a neato project. 
But whether physical "proof" (i.e. photos, etc) of it's actual existence (either real or clay buck) comes to surface, it's pretty much a fantasy car right now. One camp says it was real, the other puts it with fairies & gnomes.
Kind of the same lines as the '71 aero cars & convertibles.
I'll be checking it out when it's completed. 

[DAY CLONA]

I do find this thread sad, mostly for the way a handful of so-called "Mopar enthusiast" have handled Dave W's introduction of a genuinely interesting project, myself I wouldn't build a 4 door E body, but hey that's just my personal tastes, but I can appreciate the effort, time and money to bring an endeavor like this to life, who really cares whether this car actually existed as a rolling/running prototype, or just an artists/engineers rendering, or a figment of an automotive enthusiasts imagination...really?, the Mopar hobby has gotten so twisted over the years, the fun has been sucked out of it, we're all so consumed with $$$numbers matching, $$$paint daubs, $$$date codes, $$$build sheets, $$$$fender tags, $$$$VIN #'s, GG anointment$, value gained, value lost, etc,etc,etc the sad list just keeps going on as to whether or not if one can prove that a particular car/build/option exists or not,...I can remember a time when the "experts" said no 4dr HEMI cars existed, or 4dr Max wedge cars where built, or MW verts...

When I fabricated the 71 wingcar parts/cars, I only drew upon pics of 3/8 scale models used in a wind tunnel research project, I applied a ton of poetic license as to what Chrysler may have built, had they gone to the street, I did it because it was a "fun" exercise in doing things "automotive"...you know the "hobby" we use to enjoy before the speculators marked it up for "investment status", besides I'd rather BUILD history, rather than RE-BUILD history like the masses ....back in the day we customized our cars, why, to be an "individual" rather than looking like the masses, same thing applies to building "concept cars" an individual sometimes does it to own something that no one else has, or to showcase one's talents, or products perhaps?....now if Dave was truly building an "abortion", then yes he'd deserve some ribbing, but we all know what Dave brings to the table in the way of quality/talent/knowledge, so there's no question it will be a stunning car, (even if it has 3 passenger doors ) so unwad the panties girls,  put out the diaper fires, and enjoy this project for what it is, something different, new life to a mentally stagnant segment of the automotive hobby , don't like it, go back to reading your GG white book...  

mike    

[ECS]

I do find this thread sad, mostly for the way a handful of so-called "Mopar enthusiast" have handled Dave W's introduction of a genuinely interesting project.....

Thank you very much Mike.    

Rather than having Tuffcat give the reasons for our doing this vehicle, I would like to tell everyone the FACTS concerning the inspiration for this project.  About 3 and a half years ago while sitting in my office, I saw the artists drawing of the blue 4 Door Barracuda on Moparts.  Steve Been stopped by the next day and I showed him the animated rendering of the car.  While I was running around doing the typical daily grind, Steve was at my Computer and came across the information about Roger Johnson and his recollection of actually seeing the Concept 4 Door Barracuda.  He printed out the story and laid it on my desk.  I saw it but didn't think much about it at that time.  

A few weeks later Steve asked if I had a chance to look at the printout that talked about the car.  I couldn't find the paper (or the website) so he found it again the next time he came by the office.  We talked about the possibilities so I started to investigate things further.  I called Curt Patterson (an Automotive Editor for many publications) and asked him if knew anything about the car.  He had known Roger Johnson for many years and was able to verify some of the information that was out there about him.  That is when the idea became a conscious effort to build this "mystery" Concept Car.  Steve Been, Dave Stuart, Tom Barcroft & I set out to find a donor car that would facilitate the build.  That is the story in a nutshell.  No more......no less!

This garbage about trying to "BS" the Industry and manipulating anyone into believing something that is "fantasy" is complete hogwash.  Tuffcat does not know me, has never met me and CERTAINLY does not possess the intelligence to explain the reason behind this project.  I have no idea why he appears to be so obsessed and bothered with the money and time we have invested in this project.  That is odd to say the least!  I GUARANTEE however that I will uncover whatever information is still buried in the Chrysler archives about this car.  Until then I'll continue to post the work we are doing.  

[resq302]

   Im sure that most of us will look forward to it.   Myself included!

[ECS]

  Im sure that most of us will look forward to it.   Myself included!

Rather than expect everyone to access links to the other Forums, I'll keep similar photos posted here as well.  Below are (Before & After) pictures of the changes that had to made to the Quarters.  Also included are some photos of the Trunk and Engine Compartments.











[/QUOTE]

[1974dodgecharger]

Yeeeeah budddy

[charger Downunder]

All aside mate you know how to do some great body work, my hat goes off to you. Keep the pics coming.

[ECS]

All aside mate you know how to do some great body work, my hat goes off to you. Keep the pics coming.

Those pictures show Steve Been working on the Body.  He is the Master Mind behind the engineering and metal work.  I help with planning and detailing after Steve does the fab work & welding!

[TUFCAT]

Dave Stuart (a current Executive for Chrysler) has also provided data and information regarding the scenario.  

 

I am a true believer of the information provided by Roger Johnson and we have been investigating this topic to the 'nth degree.

I GUARANTEE however that I will uncover whatever information is still buried in the Chrysler archives about this car. 

[ECS]

........SUCH AN EXCELLENT use of valuable TIME AND RESOURCES......NOT to mention a BRAND NEW PLATFORM....SO DO YOU THINK CHRYSLER WOULD SPEND ALL THIS EXTRA MONEY (THEY DIDN'T HAVE AT THE TIME) TO HAND FABRICATE A FOUR DOOR BARRACUDA THAT WAS NEVER PART OF THE PRODUCT PLAN- - Just for giggles?

Glad to see you have rejoined the party Tuffy!  While we are waiting for additional information on the subject matter, I wanted to ask if you still stand firmly on the comment you made above?  You obviously feel that a production Chrysler vehicle would NEVER have been altered or built (as a concept) to showcase a couple of extra doors.  Is it possible that your Father and his Friends never saw some of these Chrysler engineered Concepts because they were built (off site) by Independent coach builders such as Alexander Brothers or Creative Designs?  We'll get back to that shortly but in the mean time let's take this "concept" conversation just one step farther.  

What is the possibility that Chrysler would have made a vehicle that was COMPLETELY different from ANYTHING they had ever offered?  I'm not talking about a Clay "Concept" but an automobile that was made from scratch and had the possibility to be a New Model.  This car would have "one of a kind" Quarter Panels, Bumpers, Doors, Fenders and Hood that were never designed or used for ANY other Chrysler vehicle that was mass produced.  Would Chrysler have built this type of "Barracuda" car and then completely scrapped the entire platform and/or idea?  

[TUFCAT]

Glad to see you have rejoined the party Tuffy!  While we are waiting for additional information on the subject matter, I wanted to ask if you still stand firmly on the comment you made above?  You obviously feel that a production Chrysler vehicle would NEVER have been altered or built (as a concept) to showcase a couple of extra doors.  Is it possible that your Father and his Friends never saw some of these Chrysler engineered Concepts because they were built (off site) by Independent coach builders such as Alexander Brothers or Creative Designs?  We'll get back to that shortly but in the mean time let's take this "concept" conversation just one step farther.  

What is the possibility that Chrysler would have made a vehicle that was COMPLETELY different from ANYTHING they had ever offered?  I'm not talking about a Clay "Concept" but an automobile that was made from scratch and had the possibility to be a New Model.  This car would have "one of a kind" Quarter Panels, Bumpers, Doors, Fenders and Hood that were never designed or used for ANY other Chrysler vehicle that was mass produced.  Would Chrysler have built this type of "Barracuda" car and then completely scrapped the entire platform and/or idea?  

[ECS]

........SUCH AN EXCELLENT use of valuable TIME AND RESOURCES......NOT to mention a BRAND NEW PLATFORM....SO DO YOU THINK CHRYSLER WOULD SPEND ALL THIS EXTRA MONEY (THEY DIDN'T HAVE AT THE TIME) TO HAND FABRICATE A FOUR DOOR BARRACUDA THAT WAS NEVER PART OF THE PRODUCT PLAN- - Just for giggles?

Do you still stand firm on the quote and comments (listed above) that you made on the first page of this thread?  YES or NO?