4 Door Plymouth Barracuda

[TUFCAT]

By the time you stretch out the e body chassis to 4 dr. requirements, you have a b body.  Kinda pointless unless Chrysler was considering dropping the Coronet and the Satellite as a 4 dr.

Eureka Justin... A great point.    The Chrysler product planners would have certainly considered the same fact.  The 1971 product design plan was well underway at Chrysler by late 1969-70 when the "{Phantom 4-Door Barracuda}"  arrives on the scene (...according to the mail boy).  

Based on its bogus VIN, we are to assume it was built with an "H code" 340-4bbl engine!    I wonder if it had a performance or shaker hood?  bright dual exhaust outlets, 15" rallye wheels, elastomeric bumpers? color keyed mirrors? ...maybe even a reduced sized hockey stick 340 stripe! , ....4-speed with center console?  Front and rear spoilers?
 
We'll just have to wait and see what Dr. Frankenstein creates...!!!            

[bill440rt]

Chrysler could have made a prototype of the 4 door e body for people who did not want a big car like the B body class. 

That would have been called an "A-body". 

[Mike DC]

  
It might be a lot more interesting to see a 'Cuda skin laid onto the 2-door B-body structure.  The E-body Cudas were better looking than the 3rd-gen Satellites & Roadrunners IMO.

 

[BROCK]

 
It might be a lot more interesting to see a 'Cuda skin laid onto the 2-door B-body structure.  The E-body Cudas were better looking than the 3rd-gen Satellites & Roadrunners IMO.

 

I get what you're saying & current values do support your theory:  But, come on, they are both
beautiful in there own way

[ECS]

Outside of making the front ends cheaper, I don't see any benefit to making a 4 dr. e body.   They had the Dart/ Valiant for a compact, Coronet/ Satellite for the intermediate, and Fury/ Polara/ Newport/ Imperial for the full size.  By the time you stretch out the e body chassis to 4 dr. requirements, you have a b body.  Kinda pointless unless Chrysler was considering dropping the Coronet and the Satellite as a 4 dr.

This project is simply to commemorate a Concept vehicle from long ago.  I agree with your questioning on why they built them but if you use the same linear logic, you have to ask why Chevrolet ever experimented with a 1978 4 Door Corvette?  Or why did AMC make a 4 Door Javelin when they already had a Matador?  Or why did Ford experiment with a 1965 4 Door Mustang when they already were building the Falcon?  The topic here is not "why" they built them!  The Factory file photos CLEARLY prove that these Concepts were built...............for whatever reason!

[TUFCAT]

This project is simply to commemorate a Concept vehicle from long ago.  I agree with your questioning on why they built them but if you use the same linear logic, you have to ask why Chevrolet ever experimented with a 1978 4 Door Corvette?  Or why did AMC make a 4 Door Javelin when they already had a Matador?  Or why did Ford experiment with a 1965 4 Door Mustang when they already were building the Falcon?  The topic here is not "why" they built them!  The Factory file photos CLEARLY prove that these Concepts were built...............for whatever reason!

Geez....If only there was a photo!  


I love it when you make statements like this:   "Factory file photos CLEARLY prove that these Concepts were built"!!

So let me ask you Dave......How do you CLEARLY prove YOURS??

.....You CAN'T!!  

.... You don't have any factory photos!!!  

.... You have NOTHING!!  

.....People will be LAUGHING if you try to pass this car off to the world "as something Chrysler Built" with absolutely no proof.  Don't you understand this?  


One more thing before you further embarrass yourself with comparisons,.... just because other manufacturers were toying with the 4 door idea (as in Mustang's early development and your other whimsical examples), it certainly doesn't mean Chrysler was thinking the same way. The biggest joke is that you are claiming they did - and have not provided any proof.  Like they say in murder cases on TV.... "It would sure be nice to have some evidence"!

I've seen some cool early 70's clay mock-up photos possibly intended for a future 1974/75 Challenger redesign (if Chrysler hadn't pulled the plug on the E-body).  I'd pick one of those to build long before I'd go after that 4 door non-existent anomaly without proof of existence ...other than inside someone else's imagination.  

At this point Dave, I would have a lot more respect if you just said - - TUFFY, I built this car because I have more money than I know what to do with, nobody else can do what I can,  because I can, and I want to be different and make a statement!  That would be a lot better than hiding behind that made-up bullshit story...

[JB400]

All of this speculation based on the testimony of a mail man in 69  Usually, a person is a mailman at a corporation for a reason.  No one wakes up in the morning and says I want to be a mailman for that corporation.  Unless this guys' story is the basis for "The Secret of My Success", I'm going to throw in the fact that maybe this person didn't know that much about cars.  This guy walks by a room while doing his job and sees a bright red 4 dr. car.  What are the odds that what he seen was a Satellite?  Assuming that this guy gave his testimony years later, could it be that he might have been confusing the Satellite for a Cuda?  The Cuda name has been heavily advertised compared to the Satellite, it could be that he just got his nameplates crossed

I'm not in a situation to say it did/didn't exist.  I can however offer this speculation.  Interesting project for sure.  It'll be neat to see when completed.

[ECS]

Unless this guys' story is the basis for "The Secret of My Success", I'm going to throw in the fact that maybe this person didn't know that much about cars.  This guy walks by a room while doing his job and sees a bright red 4 dr. car.  What are the odds that what he seen was a Satellite?

Thanks for the input Stroker!    Keep one other point in mind.  I have proven that EVERY Auto manufacturer was involved in making concept 4 Door "sporty" vehicles.  The other person posting to the contrary has boasted about having absolute, positive, guaranteed, without a doubt "proof" that a 4 Door Barracuda didn't exist because his Father said so.  That's his PROOF but he continues to demand that I provide something other than the THIRD PARTY, INDEPENDENT EXPERT that I posted about.  We didn't come up with this grandiose scenario and then build a story to support an agenda.  That's what his "part supplier" does for his lackluster projects.   We read the story about it, did some investigating and decided to build it.   

One person's "here-say" is viewed as gospel but Roger Johnson's depiction is automatically viewed as being wrong.  Also keep in mind that the same person posted: "to make a 4-door version of Chryslers first year Pony car when NOBODY ELSE WAS DOING IT!!  (Ford and GM)"  I believe we can all CLEARLY see that he was absolutely wrong.  Both Ford and GM DID make prototype 4 Door cars based on their 2 Door production vehicles.  I also doubt that Chrysler was the ONLY manufacturer that didn't follow suit with the others when it came to prototype vehicles.  Just in case you missed it, below are the credentials on the Gentleman who wrote about seeing the vehicle.  Not only was he a Chrysler Employee, he has written for every major Automotive Publication, was commissioned by CNN as an expert for Automotive Information as well as other high profile accolades.  That's hardly the type of person who couldn't tell the difference between a Barracuda and a Satellite.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-johnson/a/b60/1a4

[ECS]

Chrysler could have made a prototype of the 4 door e body for people who did not want a big car like the B body class.

Hey Brian!  I'll bet Roger Johnson saw a similar Body shape when he witnessed the real Concept vehicle sitting on the loading dock, outside of Chrysler's World Headquarters. (In red of course.)  Roger was 22-23 years old at the time he worked as a "mailman" for Chrysler, left after one year and continued to move upward in his Automotive career from there. 

[Aero426]

Chrysler could have made a prototype of the 4 door e body for people who did not want a big car like the B body class.

Except that the B-body isn't a big car.   

[Aero426]

Not sure why there is all the static about the project.   If you don't like it, don't look.    If you don't believe it existed, fine.  

The car is going to be done whether folks like it or not.     Even craptastic projects by board members usually get cheerleader like responses here.     Even if you don't like it, Dave's project will be of first rate quality.    

[resq302]

Chrysler could have made a prototype of the 4 door e body for people who did not want a big car like the B body class. 

That would have been called an "A-body". 

Bill,

Wasn't the barracuda in 1969 on an A body platform?  Maybe they were designing this as part of the redesign also?

[resq302]

Chrysler could have made a prototype of the 4 door e body for people who did not want a big car like the B body class.

Except that the B-body isn't a big car.   

True, my charger is 19' long which to me is pretty big compared to today's cars.  That being said, I keep forgetting that the B body was a "mid size" car back then.

[bill440rt]

Chrysler could have made a prototype of the 4 door e body for people who did not want a big car like the B body class. 

That would have been called an "A-body". 

Bill,

Wasn't the barracuda in 1969 on an A body platform?  Maybe they were designing this as part of the redesign also?

Yes, it was an A-body in 1969. But this is based on an E-body.

Whether it was actually designed or not remains to be unsaid. You know as much as I do.
I'm just sitting back & reading just like you. Popcorn? 

[odcics2]

Roger Johnson worked for Chrysler in 1969 and is an Automotive Historian. He also has a vivid recollection of the "fantasy" vehicle.  Below is a link that talks about the 4 Door Barracuda Concept that never existed.    After you click on the link, scroll about a third of the way down the page.  The commentary is located just under the picture of the 1969 Mustang pictured in the margin.  I also linked the qualifications of the Chrysler Employee and Auto Historian who is also involved in this "fantasy" 4 Door E Body Concept conspiracy.  

http://musclecaravenue.com/

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-johnson/a/b60/1a4

Great Story....so this 1-yr mail room employee was the ONLY GUY in 45 years to have ever seen the car?  Boy, that's some real strong evidence you've got there Dave!  

Make sure you build yours Red - just like the real one!  


4-Door Barracuda
As an employee of Chrysler Corporation in 1969-70, I had the opportunity to see many things the "general public" never
did.  Not because I was that  important, but because I worked in the mail room and delivering the mail was that
important. One such sight was a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda.  It was parked for only about two days on a kind of  
loading dock attached to the back of Chrysler's World Headquarters building in their Highland Park complex.  This was
around November of 1969.  The dock seemed to be a temporary holding cell for an assortment of interesting cars.  It was
the same building Lynn Townsend, Virgil Boyd and more importantly Tom Hoover worked in. Naturally, Chrysler never
made a 4-door Barracuda but the one I saw looked surprisingly good.  I always assumed it was created around a B-body
chassis because the proportions still looked just right despite the obvious body stretch necessary  to pull it off. Having
seen this car is even more significant now since the Autoweek story about Ford using their new Mustang platform to
build other, less sporty cars - like a 4-door.

Having worked at Chrysler Engineering Highland Park until 1991, there were over a dozen buildings on the complex.
Lynn Townsend would have been in the "Keller Building".
Tom Hoover - being in Engineering, most likely been in "137" the Engineering building, or perhaps one of the Dyno Buildings.
Chances of being in the Keller Building with Townsend are slim to nill.   

There were at least a 1/2 dozen docks with cars, parts, machinery, etc. coming and going. 

If anything, a 4 door Barracuda could have been on the 3rd floor of Building 128.  Outside that building is where a lot of photos of pre-production
cars took place.    Of course the Styling Dome was another place for a car like that to show up. 

Bottom line: all it takes is a vintage photo to prove the story.     I remember seeing, and hearing, a 2 stroke engine in a Dodge Shadow.  I keep the photo in my mind!   
     

[ws23rt]

Chrysler could have made a prototype of the 4 door e body for people who did not want a big car like the B body class.

Except that the B-body isn't a big car.   

The B-body wasn't a big car in it's day but it is now.  It makes sense that the auto makers were doing research and design testing of many concepts as a matter of course.

To think that a four door E body was never considered is pushing a bit on reality.  Whether or not one was made is a good question

I like that someone is making one. Is this not part of the fun of this hobby?  Making what we want out of the memories we have from the past?

[ECS]

If you don't like it, don't look.    If you don't believe it existed, fine.   The car is going to be done whether folks like it or not.

Thank you very much Aero426!  One other point I would like to make (since some here can't get their facts straight) is that we are NOT saying that this is the actual car that Roger Johnson wrote about.  It is just a tribute to one of the many Concept vehicles that were made but never went into production.  I think (hope) we're close to getting the "proof" that we are looking for.  In an ironic way of looking at this, I guess I should thank them for pushing and encouraging me to expose their ignorance!  When will they learn that nothing good can come from awakening the "Frankenstein" Monster?  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w110QVpEEg0

[69CoronetRT]

Not sure why there is all the static about the project.   If you don't like it, don't look.    If you don't believe it existed, fine.  

The car is going to be done whether folks like it or not.     Even craptastic projects by board members usually get cheerleader like responses here.     Even if you don't like it, Dave's project will be of first rate quality.    

Agree. I get tired of the hypocrisy. Other people show up with crappy projects and are told 'it's your car do what you want to hell with what the world thinks.'

This is an incredible feat of engineering regardless of the underlying thoughts or beliefs.

Dave's time, Dave's money, Dave's car. Why should he care what I, or anyone else thinks about it?

[ws23rt]

If there are those that are troubled by tribute creations do we hear from them when a stretch is made?

I expect to see pics of a stretch daytona soon

[tsmithae]

Personally, I like the concept and don't care if a real, physical car existed.  There is some amazing work going on there and I am very interested in watching the progress.  Best of all, none of our precious classics have been sacrificed (yes, I understand there was a 4 door b-body that was pulled from a junkyard and given a new life). 

[resq302]

Chrysler could have made a prototype of the 4 door e body for people who did not want a big car like the B body class. 

That would have been called an "A-body". 

Bill,

Wasn't the barracuda in 1969 on an A body platform?  Maybe they were designing this as part of the redesign also?

Yes, it was an A-body in 1969. But this is based on an E-body.

Whether it was actually designed or not remains to be unsaid. You know as much as I do.
I'm just sitting back & reading just like you. Popcorn? 

Maybe they were just trying to carry that line forward and expand the e body line to include 4 doors also?  Again, hard to say what Chrysler was thinking unless we were the ones making the car or gave the order to have the car made.

[resq302]

If you don't like it, don't look.    If you don't believe it existed, fine.   The car is going to be done whether folks like it or not.

Thank you very much Aero426!  One other point I would like to make (since some here can't get their facts straight) is that we are NOT saying that this is the actual car that Roger Johnson wrote about.  It is just a tribute to one of the many Concept vehicles that were made but never went into production.  I think (hope) we're close to getting the "proof" that we are looking for.  In an ironic way of looking at this, I guess I should thank them for pushing and encouraging me to expose their ignorance!  When will they learn that nothing good can come from awakening the "Frankenstein" Monster?  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w110QVpEEg0

I don't know about that Dave.  Just take a look at this!   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1FLZPFI3jc

[ECS]

This is an incredible feat of engineering regardless of the underlying thoughts or beliefs.

I cannot Thank You enough for those kind words.  I can assure everyone here that this is not some publicity stunt that we concocted to deceive or mislead anyone.  I am a true believer of the information provided by Roger Johnson and we have been investigating this topic to the 'nth degree.  With that said, your comment about the "engineering" of this project is spot on.  I was SO worried that there would be a point in the project that would stop us due to difficulty in getting things to mesh together.  Steve Been has done a phenomenal job of making sure that each component works and looks like it was done on the assembly line.  There was a ton of cutting & welding that had to done and pieced back together.  

Below are a few photos that show one aspect of the cutting, reconfiguring, reshaping and welding of the Rear Doors.  Notice the top of the Door frame and how straight it originally was.  We had to cut the frame at the belt line, remove a two inch tapered strip of horizontal metal, put vertical slits in the top of the frame, re-bend the top section to incorporate a curve and then weld everything back together.  The Door skins had to match perfectly with the frames.  The rear Doors are made from a "stock" E Body front door skin and a Cuda Quarter panel.  The front of the Rear Door is made from the rear section of an E Body Door and the rear part of the Door is made from the front section of an E Body Quarter Panel.  The two sections were welded together and then the outer perimeter of the Door skin had to be cut to the shape of the reconstructed Door frame.  We (literally) made those custom Door skins from scratch.  After the recessed Handles were repositioned, the "stock" B Body lock mechanisms had to be reshaped to fit behind the recessed areas that now hold the new E Body Door handles.  That's the work for just one Door!  Every aspect of the Body has been a challenge but it looks Factory "original" and is a good looking design!


Stock B Body Rear Door


Rear Door with metal removed, vertical stress cuts to curve the top frame & welded back together again.


Inside view of Rear Door after conversion.


Completely "new" fabricated Rear Door Skin.


Back side of Rear Door Skin, Handle cutouts re-located - two part sections welded together and reinforcement on top edge custom fit for Door strength.

[ECS]

Best of all, none of our precious classics have been sacrificed (yes, I understand there was a 4 door b-body that was pulled from a junkyard and given a new life). 

You are 100% correct!  Here is a picture of the car after Steve cut it apart, had welded in some rocker panel sections and the metal surround for an E Body windshield.  Also  pictured is the Body without the Doors in place.

[Patronus]

Im pretty much here for the car stuff, and to interject some adolescent humor from time to time. All I see is someone making a car all their own. In this case, completely their own. Keep up the good work buddy, Im not a 4 door guy, but I can tell someones learning the limits of sectioning. Also, I think it'd be tits to paint it like a patrol car and really creep out the squares!