4 Door Plymouth Barracuda

[ECS]

What you are looking here is a pure "fantasy"...

Roger Johnson worked for Chrysler in 1969 and is an Automotive Historian. He also has a vivid recollection of the "fantasy" vehicle.  Below is a link that talks about the 4 Door Barracuda Concept that never existed.    After you click on the link, scroll about a third of the way down the page.  The commentary is located just under the picture of the 1969 Mustang pictured in the margin.  I also linked the qualifications of the Chrysler Employee and Auto Historian who is also involved in this "fantasy" 4 Door E Body Concept conspiracy. 

http://musclecaravenue.com/

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-johnson/a/b60/1a4

[TUFCAT]

Roger Johnson worked for Chrysler in 1969 and is an Automotive Historian. He also has a vivid recollection of the "fantasy" vehicle.  Below is a link that talks about the 4 Door Barracuda Concept that never existed.    After you click on the link, scroll about a third of the way down the page.  The commentary is located just under the picture of the 1969 Mustang pictured in the margin.  I also linked the qualifications of the Chrysler Employee and Auto Historian who is also involved in this "fantasy" 4 Door E Body Concept conspiracy.  

http://musclecaravenue.com/

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-johnson/a/b60/1a4

Great Story....so this 1-yr mail room employee was the ONLY GUY in 45 years to have ever seen the car?  Boy, that's some real strong evidence you've got there Dave!  

Make sure you build yours Red - just like the real one!  


4-Door Barracuda
As an employee of Chrysler Corporation in 1969-70, I had the opportunity to see many things the "general public" never
did.  Not because I was that  important, but because I worked in the mail room and delivering the mail was that
important. One such sight was a bright red 1970, 4-door Barracuda.  It was parked for only about two days on a kind of  
loading dock attached to the back of Chrysler's World Headquarters building in their Highland Park complex.  This was
around November of 1969.  The dock seemed to be a temporary holding cell for an assortment of interesting cars.  It was
the same building Lynn Townsend, Virgil Boyd and more importantly Tom Hoover worked in. Naturally, Chrysler never
made a 4-door Barracuda but the one I saw looked surprisingly good.  I always assumed it was created around a B-body
chassis because the proportions still looked just right despite the obvious body stretch necessary  to pull it off. Having
seen this car is even more significant now since the Autoweek story about Ford using their new Mustang platform to
build other, less sporty cars - like a 4-door.

[ECS]

......to make a 4-door version of Chryslers first year Pony car when NOBODY ELSE WAS DOING IT!!  (Ford and GM)

You really should take the time to study the history of what the Automotive Industry was doing in those years.  It's also a bit arrogant to say something "never" existed based on the premise that you never saw it.  I haven't seen the Himalaya Mountains but I would never say they don't exist based on my limited knowledge of them.  Here are some concept sculptures of the 4 Door 1964 Mustang that you claim "NOBODY ELSE WAS DOING ".

http://www.google.com/search?q=4+door+1965+mustang&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=uT8ZU57pHqnlyQHpg4H4Cw&ved=0CEcQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=670

[TUFCAT]

You really should take the time to study the history of what the Automotive Industry was doing in those years.  It's also a bit arrogant to say something "never" existed based on the premise that you never saw it.  I haven't seen the Himalaya Mountains but I would never say they don't exist based on my limited knowledge of them.  Here are some concept sculptures of the 4 Door 1964 Mustang that you claim "NOBODY ELSE WAS DOING ".

http://www.google.com/search?q=4+door+1965+mustang&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=uT8ZU57pHqnlyQHpg4H4Cw&ved=0CEcQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=670

Dave, you (and I) were both shitting in our diapers at the time these cars were being made. However, if you had a father like mine who lived, breathed, and worked around this stuff every day for 35 years - - you wouldn't be so quick to believe what you've heard from your "sources" .

By the way I'll go head to head with you anytime,  when "Automotive Jeopardy" with Alex Trebek.... comes to cable.

[ECS]

You really should take the time to study the history of what the Automotive Industry was doing in those years.  

Dave, you (and I) were both shitting in our diapers at the time these cars were being made. However, if you dad a father like mine who lived, breathed, and worked around this stuff every day of his working life - - you wouldn't be so quick to believe what you've heard from your "sources"

Did you ignore the studio pictures of the 4 door Mustang you claimed never existed?  Would you care to explain and dismiss THOSE pictures taken on January 4, 1963?  Were they just another "fantasy"?     Here they are again.  In case you missed it the first time, notice the first 3 pictures in the link below!  Will you please elaborate on the earlier post you made about how they "NEVER" made them?

http://www.google.com/search?q=1965+4+door+mustang&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=y0QZU6uMD6mEyAH6loDgCQ&ved=0CEcQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=670

[TUFCAT]

Did you ignore the studio pictures of the 4 door Mustang you claimed never existed?  Would you care to explain and dismiss THOSE pictures taken on January 1, 1963?  Were they just another "fantasy"?     Here they are again.  In case you missed it the first time, notice the first 3 pictures in the link below!  Will you please elaborate on the earlier post you made about how they "NEVER" made them?

http://www.google.com/search?q=1965+4+door+mustang&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=y0QZU6uMD6mEyAH6loDgCQ&ved=0CEcQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=670

Those were clay models dude. CLAY MODELS!  The 4dr. Ford Falcon production started in 1960.  Mustang was based on a Falcon. So what.  It appears Ford did a clay model design study around January '63, a full year and a half prior to Mustang's release.  That's because its cheaper and more feasible to make design changes (in 10,000 pounds of clay) before deciding its a DUMB IDEA to actually build one!!

You have said - and let me quote you correctly -  "Chrysler actually made a running/driving prototype of this car and we are building a tribute to that particular vehicle"

Really??  A running and driving prototype huh?  That's cool!  ....Did the mail-man tell you this also?  

If the 1965 4dr. Mustang concept was such a great idea then why didn't Ford build it?  But its a "Grand Idea" for a cash-strapped Chrysler to design and build a prototype 4-dr Barracuda 6 years later?  Wait, ...sorry. Not just "any" prototype....but a running and driving prototype.  

[ECS]

Those were clay models dude. CLAY MODELS!

Oh...... I see!  You have gone from saying that they "never" existed, to giving DETAILS about things that "never" existed.  Sorry tuffy but you have lost any credibility with what you have been spewing.    Here is what you said earlier about clay mockups:

"Finally, "IF" such an abortion was ever to be created, then one or more "clay bucks" would have been built first....and that would have been expensive."

Now "CLAY MODELS" have gone from being an "expensive" waste to an insignificant detail about the subject matter.....right?!?  Most EVERY manufacturer made 4 Door Concepts of their Sports Cars, you and your Father didn't know about it and that says nothing about reality!   You have nothing other than your typed words, you have been PROVEN wrong about what you "ASS U MED" and are now doing a pitiful job of back peddling.  They built it and we are doing a tribute for what they built in 1969 and it will be red!

[TUFCAT]

Oh...... I see!  You have gone from saying that they "never" existed, to giving DETAILS about things that "never" existed.  Sorry tuffy but you have lost any credibility with what you have been spewing.  smilielol  Here is what you said earlier about clay mockups:

"Finally, "IF" such an abortion was ever to be created, then one or more "clay bucks" would have been built first....and that would have been expensive."

Now "CLAY MODELS" have gone from being an "expensive" waste to an insignificant detail about the subject matter.....right?!?  Most EVERY manufacturer made 4 Door Concepts of their Sports Cars, you and your Father didn't know about it and that says nothing about reality!   You have nothing other than your typed words, you have been PROVEN wrong about what you "ASS U MED" and are now doing a pitiful job of back peddling.  They built it and we are doing a tribute for what they built in 1969 and it will be red!

Good for you.  I'm sure it will be beautiful.  When you dig up some "real" supporting evidence of Chrysler's phantom 4dr. E-Body Barracuda program (that you speak so knowledgeably about) please bring it to the worlds attention....it would be something really nifty to show along with your concept car "tribute" display.  You know, something similar to the documentation and supporting evidence Gary and Pam Beineke had with their 71 aero cars...

In the mean time I need to make my list of parts to order from Tony D'agostino.  I think you know him.

[ECS]

When you dig up some "real" supporting evidence ......

You might try following your own advice.  I provided third party information.  You provided your incorrect typed opinions!  And when you quote someone, you might try doing that with some credibility.  I don't recall stating, "Chrysler actually made a running/driving prototype of this car and we are building a tribute to that particular vehicle".  I did say, "The only information we have to this point is that the vehicle was patterned from the B Body platform."

[TUFCAT]

You might try following your own advice.  I provided third party information.  You provided your incorrect typed opinions!  And when you quote someone, you might try doing that with some credibility.  I don't recall stating, "Chrysler actually made a running/driving prototype of this car and we are building a tribute to that particular vehicle".  I did say, "The only information we have to this point is that the vehicle was patterned from the B Body platform."

Sorry about the poor quality picture.

[ECS]

Would it be possible to post some or all of the same info about your Barracuda project that used to be available on Cuda-Challenger.com?  This thread would be as good a place as any (hint, hint).

Hi Gene,
I will indeed start posting the project photos and details.    Knowing that this is one of the "Major Mopar forums" I guess I should be surprised that I can still post them here!   It's good to know - like Mark Twain once said .............."The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated."  

[ECS]

Sorry about the poor quality picture.

Please accept my sincere apology for not remembering.   

[MoParJW]

I am biased, but I like it  , it's different.

But why on earth would Chrysler think of building a fourdoor Barracuda when they already had B-body fourdoors   
I don't see the point 

[1974dodgecharger]

I know my uncles, mom, brothers , half sister worked in the RandD dept of Chrysler in Detroit and saw the 4 door cuda, very impressive I was told had a hemi 6 pack as a prototype, produced 700hp/680ft-lbs but could not be sold due too much power on the road. 


I confirmed this yesterday had to call her to verify since I was little.

[TUFCAT]

 If a German Shepherd told Dave Walden to build a 1970 Plymouth Fury Gt with a Superbird nose and a wing I think he would!!! 

[ECS]

If a German Shepherd told Dave Walden to build a 1970 Plymouth Fury Gt with a Superbird nose and a wing I think he would!!! 

To this point, all you have offered is something told to you by your Dad!  What breed of Dog do you consider him to be?

[ECS]

I don't see the point  

Automobile manufacturers built all types of running, driving Concept Cars.  They built "Family Friendly" Camaros & Trans Ams & Corvettes & Javelins, etc........  It's hilarious that some people express their unawareness of these cars as "proof" that they didn't exist.  Remember this quote that was posted earlier?

"the process of "styling a vehicle" was not as simple as grafting an existing front and rear onto another body.  Chrysler would NEVER have gone through "such an exercise" in those days......ESPECIALLY to its sporty short wheel base design vehicle.... "

Below is proof that Chrysler did in fact, graft completely different "front and rear" sections to an existing "sports" car.  Also shown are additional pictures of other Concept cars that "never" were built.  

[TUFCAT]

Mr. Walden has a lot of money invested into this project, so he's obviously a little "sensitive"  

Let's be clear.  There's no need to paint me, my father, or other persons who might chime in who worked in product development at Chrysler Engineering back then the "bad guys".

Without a single shred of supporting evidence, this is a "Dave Walden at ECS Concept". Nothing more, nothing less.

Mr. Walden is just like a guy who builds this 1970 Plymouth Fury GT with a Superbird nose and wing.  The only difference between that person and Mr. Walden is that he isn't trying to convince the world that Chrysler actually built one....nor that a mail-man at Chrysler accidentally saw something nobody on Earth has ever seen, not even in pictures.

Dave, you certainly must have expected some controversy after the first "weld spark" hit the floor on this build.

There is so much bad information out there, (and everyone seems to have a little piece of it), we just don't need anymore of it going around.

I know this wasn't the kind of "attention" you wanted, but remember this. You're the person responsible for putting this message out to the world....not me!!

I'm sure it will be a beautiful well crafted car when its done, but its just a "Dave Walden Concept" - until it can be proven otherwise.

[TUFCAT]

To this point, all you have offered is something told to you by your Dad!  What breed of Dog do you consider him to be?

A "Seeing Eye Dog". 

[ECS]

Let's be clear.

You've accused me of being a liar about this project. You've called this project an abortion.  You've mocked everything we are doing and then make your comment about the "german shepherd".  You're just like every other big mouth that can dish it out but can't take it.  You have NOTHING but your opinion which truly amounts to zilch.  

I have posted commentary from third party experts that you deem insignificant.  I posted pictures of a 4 Door Concept Mustang that you said "NEVER" was made and you then proceed to make excuses about the very topic that you claimed "NEVER" existed in the first place.  I posted pictures of the Chrysler "sports" car that you said Chrysler "NEVER" would have built...."ESPECIALLY to its sporty short wheel base design vehicle....".  It's obvious that they did which proves you wrong.......again!  I posted Factory stock photos of the 4 Door Javelin PONY CAR that you claim "NEVER" was made.  It appears your getting trounced in your "head to head" match up and you don't have the ability to realize it.  You lose kitty cat!  Continue your rant.....I'm done responding to your ignorance on the subject matter!  

[TUFCAT]

Let's be clear.

You've accused me of being a liar about this project. You've called this project an abortion.  You've mocked everything we are doing and then make your comment about the "german shepherd".  Your'e just like every other big mouth that can dish it out but can't take it.  You have NOTHING but your opinion which truly amounts to zilch.  

I have posted commentary from third party experts that you deem insignificant.  I posted pictures of a 4 Door Concept Mustang that you said "NEVER" was made and you then proceed to make excuses about the very topic that you claimed "NEVER" existed in the first place.  I posted pictures of the Chrysler "sports" car that you said Chrysler "NEVER" would have built...."ESPECIALLY to its sporty short wheel base design vehicle....".  It's obvious that they did which proves you wrong.......again!  I posted Factory stock photos of the 4 Door Javelin PONY CAR that you claim "NEVER" was made.  It appears your getting trounced in your "head to head" match up and you don't have the ability to realize it.  You lose kitty cat!  Continue your rant.....I'm done responding to your ignorance on the subject matter!  

I never accused you of being a liar.  I debated your facts.  With special regard to the 4-dr Barracuda you claim Chrysler had built. 

[resq302]

I am biased, but I like it  , it's different.

But why on earth would Chrysler think of building a fourdoor Barracuda when they already had B-body fourdoors   
I don't see the point 

Chrysler could have made a prototype of the 4 door e body for people who did not want a big car like the B body class.  Lets face it, if a company (even in bankruptcy) cut out their research and development department, that a sure way to close the doors.  Without product development, how could one advance or proceed in business?  If the square wheel was such a great idea, why did someone come up with a round design?

Some of you might remember a little project called The Tomahawk!  Why did Chrysler build 3 or 4 of those motorcycles when they never made motorcycles before?  Im sure that there are COUNTLESS prototypes that have been made which we never saw because they were scrapped.   Im sure that the 4 door concept Charger from 1999 (which was a running / driving car) has probably been scrapped also.

[66FBCharger]

I'd love to see the build progress photos of the 4 dr. Barracuda Dave is building.

[JB400]

Outside of making the front ends cheaper, I don't see any benefit to making a 4 dr. e body.   They had the Dart/ Valiant for a compact, Coronet/ Satellite for the intermediate, and Fury/ Polara/ Newport/ Imperial for the full size.  By the time you stretch out the e body chassis to 4 dr. requirements, you have a b body.  Kinda pointless unless Chrysler was considering dropping the Coronet and the Satellite as a 4 dr.

[TUFCAT]

I'd love to see the build progress photos of the 4 dr. Barracuda Dave is building.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?67700-4-door-1970-concept-cuda-b-body-platform

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=85688.0