Electrical upgrades

[Dino]

I'm a bit confused on how to beef up the electrical system.  When I'm done with this car (never gonna happen  ), it will have an aftermarket radio, 4 speakers, an amp and a woofer (or two).  Power windows, power doors, power trunk, power seats, alarm, remote start and maybe a gizmo or two more.  Everything but the seats can be controlled by the key fob.  I also want to do the headlight relay mod and I want to do whatever is needed to have the electrical system steady.  For example, I need to turn my wipers off when I'm going slow as they can't keep up and start to drag.  Once I rev the engine they're fine.  The dash lights will also dim when I come to a stop.  How do I fix that exactly?  Do I need relays everywhere or is there a way to fix all that so nothing changes when I let off the gas. 

So what exactly do I need to do to ensure the car remains a non fireball?

I'm guessing you're going to tell me to bypass the ammeter.  I'm not sure why as I don't see anything wrong with the design itself but you guys probably know things I don't.  How about the alternator?  Just swap it out for a bigger one?  How does this work?

The wiring in my car is in very good shape, no burnt wires found so far, no hacking or splicing anywhere so I'm not going to swap it for a new wiring kit.

[b5blue]

  Dino I installed a 120amp Denso from Mancini Racing 2 years ago as of now. I looked and researched literally for 3 years every aspect of the low Alt. output at idle problem. (That is in fact the "root" of the "bad ALT gauge" reputation.) This swap will not look "stock" as the Denso is much smaller so if your a "It must look factory" mindset your NOT going to want to use it.
  I will NEVER run any other Alt. on my car as it has performed flawlessly and at idle is capable no less than 45 amp output (65 amp max idle output listed rating.)as tracked and tested by me. (On a cleaned and serviced by myself +40 year stock unmodified old wiring harness.) 
  The new "OEM" brand ALT gauge is rated at 65 amp load and while not "needed", I have one to install during my gauge restoration.
  If you want to go over any details or theory of operation just PM me.  (I have seen much debate on these kind of subjects and I don't always see eye to eye with others, I go by my USAF tech training and experience installing repairing restoring boats, cars, homes and commercial wiring.)   

[Dino]

  Dino I installed a 120amp Denso from Mancini Racing 2 years ago as of now. I looked and researched literally for 3 years every aspect of the low Alt. output at idle problem. (That is in fact the "root" of the "bad ALT gauge" reputation.) This swap will not look "stock" as the Denso is much smaller so if your a "It must look factory" mindset your NOT going to want to use it.
  I will NEVER run any other Alt. on my car as it has performed flawlessly and at idle is capable no less than 45 amp output (65 amp max idle output listed rating.)as tracked and tested by me. (On a cleaned and serviced by myself +40 year stock unmodified old wiring harness.) 
  The new "OEM" brand ALT gauge is rated at 65 amp load and while not "needed", I have one to install during my gauge restoration.
  If you want to go over any details or theory of operation just PM me.  (I have seen much debate on these kind of subjects and I don't always see eye to eye with others, I go by my USAF tech training and experience installing repairing restoring boats, cars, homes and commercial wiring.)   

I don't really care about stock look at that level.  I want body and interior to look as stock as possible but don't really care about things under the hood unless it's just as easy to make something look stock.  My main goal is to have a quality alt that will do the job on a much driven car, that's my main concern.  I lost my 68 to a fire, that's not gonna happen again if I can help it.   

The old 318 has been replaced with a 440 many years ago so not much stock going on there anyway.   
Would I need different size belts to run to the A/C compressor or something?

At 45 amps at idle, I would assume there is no more of that dimming and slowing down of electrical parts going on but did you do anything else besides swap the alternator? 

This the one you got?  Copied it from Mancini's catalog:

B/RB 120 Amp Denso Alternator Kit
Denso 120 Hi-Amp alternator and mounting hardware. Single
wire alternator, internal regulator
MRE6655 B/RB Wedge 120 apm kit .................. $219.95

I will very likely be picking your brain in the future cuz I ain't the best wiring guy out there...although I'm plenty out there according to some.   

Thanks for the help buddy.      

[b5blue]

  Yes that's the one.  Instant go out in the rain at night and sit there at the stop light, wipers on high with headlights on, turn the defrost on max blower and it's just like any modern car. No dimming of headlights no slowing of wipers or blower motor. As you turn on or off anything you just see a reaction bip on the gauge as the regulator reacts to a change in demand.
  Search "Denso 120 amp" and you'll see my install pics and comments topic. I even noticed a better running engine.
  I spent years looking for a solution, sitting at lights slipping the car in neutral so I could rev up to get enough volts/amps to not discharge the battery, watching the ALT gauge swing back and forth between - and + lights dimming and wipers slowing, I even kept a squeegee between the seats with a clean towel knowing I don't dare add blower in the rain. 
  Nachos' mods are spot on and before seeing them had planned a very similar "control relay" setup.   

[Dino]

 

I've done the squeegee thing, my fan works fine...if the fan control was in the car instead of on the workbench.   

I usually turn the wipers off as soon as coasting to a stop makes the rev's drop enough for them to start stuttering.  It's flipping ridiculous!  I love the look of the rocker switches but I sure miss the wiper on the column when you have to turn it off and on 20 times each trip.  I'm going to get a variable speed control, wire it in and mount the unit close by like on the colum or maybe a small switch hidden on the back side of the steering wheel.  Hey maybe I can get steering controls on my woodgrain wheel for the radio!     You know electrical, are there small switches like that available that can be mounted on the back so it can be controlled with your fingertips?  That would be sweeeet!

I remember reading Nacho's threads on these mods but I forgot most of it so I'll have to do some homework.  So your alt gauge and wiring is still the stock configuration?  All you did was swap alternators?

[b5blue]

Yes Let me see if I can find the topic....

[b5blue]

Here...  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,70008.0.html

[Dino]

I just read the thread and it's a bit like Chinese for me so I'll have to read it again after I finish my coffee.   

Looks like this sucker works pretty good huh?  I was just thinking yesterday that I really need to do this upgrade since I'll be installing power windows.  I can imagine how 'great' they would work at idle with the stock alternator.   

I was going to send you a pm listing the mods I want to do but maybe I should keep it in the thread so others may benefit from it.  I'll try to do so today.

[b5blue]

 Yea you'll continue to stress all components and overwork the ALT gauge and wiring at idle. Amp drop equates to voltage drop directly, run a 12V motor on 9V and you'll burn it up sooner or later. On a single wire ALT. the car is engineered that the battery is part of the circuit, that's how GM did it and that's why it works for them. Chrysler just uses the battery to start the engine, the FSM even calls it "the starting battery" here and there. Your cars' wiring was not engineered to draw all power from the battery and that is why it was never an option for me. (Yes many use it and swear by it, but the true proper modifications to adapt are extensive.)       

[Dino]

Since you know electrical and it obviously works for you with that alternator and mods, I'm going to copy it all the way!  No need to reinvent the wheel, especially if you're not sure what a wheel looks like.   

[Dino]

This is what I'm thinking of doing to the beast:

Power window will have the original regulators and original switches but new Dorman motors.

The alarm/remote start/keyless entry will most likely be an Avital 5103.
http://www.avital.com/products/Product.aspx?id=5001   Msrp is insane, they're online for $70

Door actuators:  Aapex 8.8 lb torque. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-of-2-Aapex-UNIVERSAL-POWER-DOOR-LOCK-ACTUATOR-MOTOR-12V-8-8lb-Torq7-8-travel-/230821449429?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35be07ced5

Window modules to turn power windows into one touch operation + remote control capabilities.  DEI 530T.  I'm getting two modules so I can open all 4 windows with the push of a button on the remote and close them all at once when I activate the alarm.
http://www.amazon.com/DEI-530T-WINDOW-CONTROL-MODULE/dp/B0009IP4SG

Variable speed control for the wipers, haven't decided which one.

Power trunk lock will be original mopar with momentary switch button inside and dedicated remote control with the Avital system.

Aftermarket stereo with 4 speakers, sub(s) and a small amp.  It doesn't have to be super loud but a bit more than my stock Honda system would be nice. 

You think I need to upgrade the wiring?   

[b5blue]

Add up the max used amp draw for all things listed and on the car now.....

[Dino]

Add up the max used amp draw for all things listed and on the car now.....

How can I find out the draw on a given item?   Not sure how to do that.  Shouldn't I add up the amps for things that would be running at the same time?  I think the max I would do is either having lights on, wipers and radio going or lights on, radio going and using the power windows.  I doubt I'm gonna drive around pushing all the key fob buttons...then again I've done stranger things.   

Do you see an issue with all these items on the car?

[b5blue]

A: Find the values, how I'm not sure....B: No issue it's how you approach considering factors. 

[Dino]

A: Find the values, how I'm not sure....B: No issue it's how you approach considering factors. 

Gotcha! 

I'll get some numbers and report back.

[b5blue]

  You can go by the fuse rating for everything at the fuse block, and anything non factory "should" give a fuse rating. (Like the stereo and amplifier.) When I had owners wanting a generator for their boat/house boat they always wanted to go by the cost not the load they may need. 
  Things like electric trunk popper don't count as that is just a pulse, same for door lock. Motors like blower, wipers and windows have a very high demand at very first. By picking the correct speakers for your stereo (Such as from the same manufacturer.) you can limit total amp draw and gain performance. Many company's method of "ratings" vary quite a bit so specs don't really "cross over" all the time. I find a lot of guys running 100 watts boosted with speakers rated at 250 watts each, they are loosing performance. This will keep you busy:
  http://www.bcae1.com/

[moparguy01]

I am in the process of having my charger rewired. I'd do it myself but I hate wiring with an unbridled passion. I used a 21 circuit kit from EZ wire, relays for electric fans, electric fuel pump, headlights, and a few extras just in case. I'm planning on going with the powermaster 160 amp alternator. Oh and I got rid of the amp guage and have a volt guage now.

With all the stuff your adding, I'd rewire. the wiring on these cars sucked back then, and now its brittle and crappy. Not a good combo.

[Dino]

I am in the process of having my charger rewired. I'd do it myself but I hate wiring with an unbridled passion. I used a 21 circuit kit from EZ wire, relays for electric fans, electric fuel pump, headlights, and a few extras just in case. I'm planning on going with the powermaster 160 amp alternator. Oh and I got rid of the amp guage and have a volt guage now.

With all the stuff your adding, I'd rewire. the wiring on these cars sucked back then, and now its brittle and crappy. Not a good combo.

I would rewire if my wiring was bad but it's not.  I took the dash apart last year and did some work in the engine bay and the wiring looks good as new.  This was a well cared for car and there was no hacking done.  If the wiring looks fishy then rewiring would be the thing to do.

  You can go by the fuse rating for everything at the fuse block, and anything non factory "should" give a fuse rating. (Like the stereo and amplifier.) When I had owners wanting a generator for their boat/house boat they always wanted to go by the cost not the load they may need. 
  Things like electric trunk popper don't count as that is just a pulse, same for door lock. Motors like blower, wipers and windows have a very high demand at very first. By picking the correct speakers for your stereo (Such as from the same manufacturer.) you can limit total amp draw and gain performance. Many company's method of "ratings" vary quite a bit so specs don't really "cross over" all the time. I find a lot of guys running 100 watts boosted with speakers rated at 250 watts each, they are loosing performance. This will keep you busy:
  http://www.bcae1.com/

Thanks for the link, I've seen the site before but forgot all about it, very good reading.

Would you suggest the stereo equipment to all be from the same manufacturer or can it be a different brand head unit?  I have a JVC KD something right now.  Unfortunately a few weeks after installing it I had a major water leak and now it only plays through left or right speakers, I forget.  I can get another type but the adjustable color on the unit made it so I could perfectly match the gauge lighting.   

I would like a unit with front aux and usb, variable color would be nice and I would like to put in 4 speakers, amp and sub.  Ideally I'd put a speaker in each door but I'm not sure I'll have the room with the window motors.

[Cooter]

Just FYI Dino.....Gm 1 wire....Only $60.00 at your local auto parts store and can be had anywhere. Usually works with the stock mounting brackets if you use a little inginuity. I mean, the Denso is Japan....Delco is at least USA.

[Dino]

Just FYI Dino.....Gm 1 wire....Only $60.00 at your local auto parts store and can be had anywhere. Usually works with the stock mounting brackets if you use a little inginuity. I mean, the Denso is Japan....Delco is at least USA.

 

I will definitely look into that Cooter, thanks for the tip.