Opinions Wanted

[6PakBee]

I would like some opinions.  I have a project Superbird.  B5, white bench interior (has buckets), column auto, 440 single 4bbl.  Have build sheet and fender tag.  Needs paint, interior, minor body work.  Engine and trans are sound.  How much $cash plus the Superbird would I have to come up with to get a project Daytona in the same condtion or slightly worse?  Trying to post a picture.  Thanks.

[6PakBee]

Picture.

[mauve66]

 

[moparstuart]

the trouble is finding the project daytona , they just dont come around often . Unless you already know of one  ?

[6PakBee]

Good point.  That is the type of feedback I'm looking for.     Frankly I don't know of a Daytona project.  But if one popped up I would like to have a little bit of an idea of relative values.

[BigBlockSam]

 

[Patronus]

I certainly dont speak for everyone, but I think the Superbird guys are nuttier than the Daytona guys. (did I just start something) But really, in my opinion the Superbird makes more mouths water than a Daytona. (certainly my brother's) Fewer Daytona's means more $. Look at the recent project 500's up for sale, bringing what, $40K? Add the wing/nose and guys would pay twice that. The last Daytona project I saw was removed from the ravine. And Im sure you dont want that. There's more experienced than I here, for sure.. Just my opinions.. Nice car and pic. And thanks for sharing, love seeing the secret stashes..

[Chargen69]

money aside, the daytonas are way better than a bird  

[Aero426]

Your car + 30k = Project Daytona.

B5 Bird with a white bucket interior is a nice combo.

[A383Wing]

Your car + 30k = Project Daytona.

I was thinking about the same thing as Doug...but he beat me to the post

Bryan

[6PakBee]

Your car + 30k = Project Daytona.

Finally a couple "Old Timer"s who aren't into popcorn.    Thanks guys.  Now I have a reference.  

[JB400]

My opinion, restore the bird, then sell/ trade for an already done Daytona.  I understand the provenance of owning a Daytona, but a Superbird is a very close second.  Even if you don't find a Daytona, you can still enjoy the Superbird.



I see a Charger in the pic, but what are the other cars, if you don't mind me asking?

[A383Wing]

even if he restores the 'Bird, he's still gonna have to cough up more money to sell/trade for an already done Daytona

no sense in restoring 2 wing cars to get one...I say if you want a Daytona, save the money that you would put into the 'Bird resto and use that as the money to go along with the trade

Bryan

[charger Downunder]

I would like some opinions.  I have a project Superbird.  B5, white bench interior (has buckets), column auto, 440 single 4bbl.  Have build sheet and fender tag.  Needs paint, interior, minor body work.  Engine and trans are sound.  How much $cash plus the Superbird would I have to come up with to get a project Daytona in the same condtion or slightly worse?  Trying to post a picture.  Thanks.

Stuff the paint sounds like a good bird just do whats needed to be done to get it on the road and drive it like it is.

[69_500]

Even if it was a driver it would be about the 30k gap that Doug mentioned. AT on column on a 4 bbl bird is not going to bring the money even a similar Daytona would.

Would venture to say in current condition you might be looking at about a 35-40k car. And the last similar Daytona I have eard of would set you back around 70-75k.

[johnnyseville]

I would really have to disagree, I keep track of prices on both, only a slight difference between them, all equal. I would say max 10K advantage for a Daytona in the real world.   If you want my advice, trade it for a 4 spd Hemi Charger, you will never look back or want to sell it again.

[1970Moparmann]

The biggest factor is production numbers.  Daytona's are few and far between to find.  Honestly, I just bought a Bird that I could afford and I've been looking for 15 years.  Prices just climbed and climbed.  A "complete" driving Daytona around $90 - $100k right now is what I have seen them going for.  A project Daytona, good luck.  There are a few hanging around that "Wing Nuts" have been following, but it is the standard story "I plan on restoring it in the future". 

Clean up your car, see what is there, and depending on how it is after a good cleaning and mechanical check, maybe you can get $50k - $55k in it's condition. 

[1970Moparmann]

What else is in sitting near the Bird?? 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Would venture to say in current condition you might be looking at about a 35-40k car. And the last similar Daytona I have eard of would set you back around 70-75k.

 ...Basically a 2 to 1 price difference for comparable project cars...  finished cars are maybe 50-60% higher for the Daytona...

I would trade my 4 Spd 440 Superbird with several storage totes of NOS parts for a comparable Daytona and throw in the $10K without hesitating... or trade a  project Daytona & project Superbird for a turn-key Daytona...  

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,84806

[xs29j8Bullitt]

A project Daytona, good luck.  There are a few hanging around that "Wing Nuts" have been following, but it is the standard story "I plan on restoring it in the future".  

Even Wing Nuts have projects just sitting for the moment...

[b5blue]

Allen you have the best toy box I've ever seen!!! 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Allen you have the best toy box I've ever seen!!! 

I do like my toybox, but need fewer toys... all turn-key though...

Here is a night-vision view of them tonight... 

[Redbird]

Really nice project, especially the white bench interior!

And I like the whitewalls, because I think there were a lot of cars in 1970 with 14" wheels and whitewalls.

I'd suggest finding a value for the Superbird. Does it need a trunk floor and quarters? Do the numbers really match?

I believe it would take both a lot of time and luck to do the trade you are considering.

Restoring a car you don't know is really a big potential upside down situation, especially if you don't know a lot about a specific car model. I don't see restoring this to sell off and then buy another car would be a good deal for you.

I get that you may be trying to avoid paying the Capitol Gains. So I wouldn't expect anything to happen quickly.

[6PakBee]

Wow, thanks for all the comments.  I asked for opinions and I'm glad I got opinions with some thought behind them.  To clarify some things:  In my opinion a '69 Charger is much superior to a '70 Roadruner as far as styling goes.  So a Daytona is much prettier car than a Superbird.  I would rather have a Daytona for that fact alone.  Couple that with the fact that I have no '70 Roadrunner/Belvedere/Satellite parts but do have a bunch of '68/'69'70 Charger stuff, even parts are an advantage with the Daytona option.  

The engine and transmission are replacements, both 1969 versions.  I bought the car from the second owner and he blew the engine up in 1974 and for some reason he couldn't remember replaced the trans at the same time.  He also replaced the bench seat with the buckets but it is definitely a bench car from the build sheet.  The only metal work it needs is at the very bottom of the right quarter where it looks like somebody spilled fertilizer into the gap between the quarter and the extension.  The wing has to have some cosmetic repair and the nose shows the effects of a driver with no bumper.  Other than that, I can see nothing that needs attention.

I've considered making a clone as I have a really nice '69 Charger roller available.  I've talked to Dane about a wing, Dayclona about glass parts, and other suppliers for components to make a Daytona clone and to do it right, in my opinion, you are looking at $30K easily.  So if $30K would make this deal I'm contemplating go through, I would think that would be a better way to go.

Why now?  I got the Superbird about ten years ago because I could afford it at the time.  Now the kids are gone, house is paid off, ....I have a more disposable income and decided before I start on the Superbird, I'll see what you folks thought about my suggestion.  

Honestly I don't want to talk about the other cars.  Call me paranoid but so be it.

Thanks again for all the suggestions!!  

[1970Moparmann]

Personally, I would much rather have a real Bird than a Clone Daytona, your call obviously. 

Get in touch with 41Husk (Allen).  He has one of the best clones I personally have seen, and may do a trade.  His car started off as a 69 RT/SE, and has air.   

$30k in a restoration is probably pretty accurate, BUT, your car is worth much more than $30k.  Put it this way, if you put the Bird on an ad here or on Moparts, I wouldn't doubt that the car would sell in less than 12 hours.   

Just my  .

[mauve66]

 
some of us can only do popcorn 'cause we know nothing about the subject but want to learn, if you don't post something iin the thread you have to keep searching for it for new info when someone else posts

[6PakBee]

I really don't want to drag this out and waste people's time but....  These are the three choices I see.

1)  Keep the Superbird and finish it.
2)  Keep the Superbird and finish it, build a Daytona clone.
3)  Trade the Superbird and cash for a Daytona and finish it.

In any event I will have a true wing car of some sort when the dust settles.  Again thanks for all the comments.  We'll see what the future brings! 

[Redbird]

Even though you have a Superbird with needs, it still seems like it is worth a lot more than 30K. Especially with the original white interior, has it been mentioned that a white interior is very desirable?

I appreciate that you like the Charger/Daytona styling.

Asking prices, much less building prices, for clones are high. Look at an auction magazine like Sports Car Market for actual selling prices and past/predicted future prices of clones-pennies on the dollar. Plus you then get to explain for the next how many years that you have a a tribute at best or a fake at worst. I'm guessing that trading what you have for a clone would be one of the all time bad financial moves you could make. You would gain notoriety as the guy that traded a real car for a clone straight up.

FWIW trade something else you have, like a 383 Charger, for a done clone. Real world pennies on the dollar.

[odcics2]

Get rid of the Bird and other cars.  Be in a cash ready position and start looking for the Daytona project.   

[moparstuart]

or do what allen is trying to do and do a multi project car trade for a turn key daytona   

[hotrod98]

If you're bound and determined to own a real Daytona, I agree with selling and looking for a Daytona project. That is unless you have a line of credit that would enable you to buy a Daytona project prior to selling the bird project.

There have been times when I considered selling my real bird and building a clone with a modern driveline but I just can't let go of the real thing. The rust free, solid ones like mine are getting much harder to find.

You have a real wingcar. Maybe you should go the safe route and restore the bird.  

[Daytona R/T SE]

Ok, I'll say it...

"A 'Bird in the hand is worth two Daytonas in the bush"

[Patronus]

^nice..
If you set up a poll I'd vote for keeping the 'bird and build a 'tona. From the pic it looks like you have a starting point for both. 

[Ricomondo]

Just to play devil's advocate for a min, but what if you hesitate and you do find the Daytona project car you'd like? will you be able to liquidate your 'Bird fast enough to buy the project car. It's a tough decision either way, but you have to do what makes you happy.
I agree with a poll to garner some opinion. Lot's of great pros/coms are in this thread. Personally, if it was me, I'd chase the Daytona as that's what it sounds like you really want. You only live once. 

Besides,if you restore the Bird and it's not really what you wanted to do, every time you see a Daytona, or see a thread on one being restored or especially for sale, you may feel just a smidge of remorse, that you didn't follow your heart.

[Scaregrabber]

Tough position. I wouldn't sell the bird unless I had a Daytona in my name first. These cars are only getting tougher to find. I also wouldn't put money and work into a car if I didn't want to keep it when done.

Sheldon

[Troy]

Speaking a little from experience, I wouldn't touch the Bird if it wasn't what I truly wanted. Sell it now. Sell whatever else you can as well. Keep selling until you can buy a finished Daytona. I believe there are more "available" finished cars than there are good projects (ie. ones that wont cost more than a house to track down and restore all the parts) and the owners are a lot more likely to deal if you have cash.

Unless you have the skill to restore a Daytona to your own satisfaction you're going to be paying someone else a LOT of money to do it (same with the Bird). Add in the initial purchase price plus parts and I doubt you'll finish for less money - and certainly less time - than if you started searching for a finished one now. The major drawback to such a rare car is finding one in your favorite color combo with the options you like. You pretty much have to take whatever you find (project or otherwise).

I'm tired of tripping over cars that I've been working on for 1/4 of my life that will probably take another 1/4 of my life to finish. There's no joy in owning your dream car if it's sitting, unfinished, in a dusty pile at the back of the garage (or in "body shop hell" with no end in sight). Get something to drive!


Troy

[kab69440]

There's no joy in owning your dream car if it's sitting, unfinished, in a dusty pile at the back of the garage.

Troy

Boy, Amen to that.

[Redbird]

First I'd get some insurance on what you have. If anyone is going to be under the hood in the shop/garage there is always the danger of fire. Be careful, first rule-No one gets hurt.

Don't put much money in something you don't want or will not want in the near future.

If you drive what you have you will learn a lot, and I'm guessing there will be a lot more interest from a large number of people in what you have (probably even more interest than if you had a restored car).

[1970Moparmann]

There's no joy in owning your dream car if it's sitting, unfinished, in a dusty pile at the back of the garage.

Troy

Boy, Amen to that.

Troy, absolutely right!  It's cool as hell to have these cars, but reality is reality.   A lot of people take on way too many projects.  

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I'm tired of tripping over cars that I've been working on for 1/4 of my life that will probably take another 1/4 of my life to finish. There's no joy in owning your dream car if it's sitting, unfinished, in a dusty pile at the back of the garage (or in "body shop hell" with no end in sight). Get something to drive!

I did my Daytona over in 10 months & the Hemi will take less than that, so, what you need to do is move next door to me. Either I'll motivate you, or do it for you. All you need to do is provide funding.   

[xs29j8Bullitt]

There's no joy in owning your dream car if it's sitting, unfinished, in a dusty pile at the back of the garage.

Troy

Boy, Amen to that.

Troy, absolutely right!  It's cool as hell to have these cars, but reality is reality.   A lot of people take on way too many projects.  

  X3... DAMHIK... 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

There's no joy in owning your dream car if it's sitting, unfinished, in a dusty pile at the back of the garage.

Troy

Boy, Amen to that.

Troy, absolutely right!  It's cool as hell to have these cars, but reality is reality.   A lot of people take on way too many projects.  

  X3... DAMHIK... 

I would add this caution... Have the car thoroughly inspected by someone you trust that knows what he is doing... buying a perfumed pig that  is only a year or two away from being a major project is a risk... at least with a project car you will know what you are buying...

[DAY CLONA]

I would like some opinions.  I have a project Superbird.  B5, white bench interior (has buckets), column auto, 440 single 4bbl.  Have build sheet and fender tag.  Needs paint, interior, minor body work.  Engine and trans are sound.  How much $cash plus the Superbird would I have to come up with to get a project Daytona in the same condtion or slightly worse?  Trying to post a picture.  Thanks.

I think the first question you have to ask yourself is: do I want a "numbers/original" car or clone, I know you mentioned building a clone, and some guys are all about the so called "real deal",......if it's got to be a real deal, sell the bird as is in it's current condition, along with any other toys that you don't really want or will never find the time/money to complete, take the quick short dollar for unfinished cars, as restoring it for sale to try and increase the revenue raised for the Tona purchase will leave you sitting on the Bird until you find the right buyer to offset your investment, and in today's market you will be on the losing end of the battle...

If building a clone is in the cards for you, sell the bird as is, the revenue raised should put you in the drivers seat of a nicely restore 69/70 Charger of your choice, eliminating the need to restore an entire car, it's a buyer's market right now for nicely restored cars... with your next investment being wingcar parts, new, used, repro, depending on how much "originality" or "correctness" you would be seeking in your cloned Tona, expect to spend $10-$15K on quality parts...how much work you can perform in the wingcar transformation? will determine your build budget, building a clone will put you in the driver's seat a lot faster than waiting on a project Tona, if that's your intention?

Mike

[41husk]

I would be interested!

[johnnyseville]

I'm tired of tripping over cars that I've been working on for 1/4 of my life that will probably take another 1/4 of my life to finish. There's no joy in owning your dream car if it's sitting, unfinished, in a dusty pile at the back of the garage (or in "body shop hell" with no end in sight). Get something to drive!

I did my Daytona over in 10 months & the Hemi will take less than that, so, what you need to do is move next door to me. Either I'll motivate you, or do it for you. All you need to do is provide funding.  

\

I would like to take you up on that, where the hell are you?


w

[Troy]

I'm tired of tripping over cars that I've been working on for 1/4 of my life that will probably take another 1/4 of my life to finish. There's no joy in owning your dream car if it's sitting, unfinished, in a dusty pile at the back of the garage (or in "body shop hell" with no end in sight). Get something to drive!

I did my Daytona over in 10 months & the Hemi will take less than that, so, what you need to do is move next door to me. Either I'll motivate you, or do it for you. All you need to do is provide funding.   

But wasn't the Hemi already painted when you bought it?

Yeah, if I had unlimited time and unlimited funds I wouldn't have a bunch of unfinished cars. Of course, if I had fewer cars I'd have more money and time. I once thought that when I got a car "finished" I wouldn't need to put any more money into it. I was very wrong about that! My motivation comes in spurts and usually ebbs about the time I get stuck waiting on someone else (like transmission shops that took 6 weeks longer than their estimates) OR I break something that isn't easily replaceable. Perhaps I need a bigger list of things to do so I can just move on to something else. Unfortunately, when you run into a roadblock on more than one car it really drains you. I keep hoping that, someday, I'll have enough experience from working on these cars that I'll be able to tackle one without tripping over so many hurdles. Not likely though!

Troy

[hemi68charger]

  X3... DAMHIK... 

I used to be there... I just turned my '68 Hemi Charger Project and '69 Charger 500 into a Daytona........

You could get that puppy going one small step at a time........ I have a turn-key Daytona for ya (as soon as I finish this front suspension rebuild done)................ I'd take the 'Bird, but unfortunately, I'll need more green backs than you're looking to spend.........

[Mytur Binsdirti]

But wasn't the Hemi already painted when you bought it?

Do you want to nitpick a trivial detail like that?