Toyota beats Honda for title "Recall King of 2012"

[odcics2]

Another quick look shows that almost a MILLION guys were building cars in the US for the Big 3 in 1979.
That Big 3 figure is down under 300,000.
Add the figure of 55,000 for Japanese plants, (your figure) and you still get a HUGE net loss of 645,000 good paying, middle class, American jobs, lost since 1979.

Now, use you same example of "Bob" and "Fred".   Except multiply it by the 645,000 number of folks that USED to be employed building cars in the US. You can see my point.

When I said there were a "few" plants opened by foreign car companies, I mean in comparison to all the Big 3 plants that have closed over the decades.  When you add up how many cars have been imported by the Japanese companies, that figure displaced cars made here.  Prior to the mid 80s, ALL Japanese cars were imported. I don't have the % for today of import vs built here by Japanese companies.

I agree about overpaid CEOs.       What can be done about greed?  

Lastly, all this 'GLOBAL' crap is bringing our wages DOWN to compete with 3rd world countries, IMO.            

[Troy]

But the foreign car makers aren't the ones who closed American car makers' plants. They bring jobs here while US manufacturers ship them away. Blame that squarely on the US manufacturers. I've lost the study that I read earlier today showing that overall productivity is nearly equal between US and foreign manufacturers (but it shouldn't be hard to find). So if you're getting the same out of your workers then why does one group send jobs elsewhere while the other group moves them here? If the foreign manufacturers did NOT build plants here then your numbers would show a bigger impact. If you want to see something sad, read about the British car manufacturing. Most of those companies ended up owned by the US at one point.

There weren't any computer manufacturers, web site designers/builders/hosts, cell phone networks or manufacturers, satellite TV broadcasts, bloggers, arena football or major league soccer (in the US) in 1979. The manufacturing landscape looked completely different 33 years prior to that as well (1946).  Things change. Jobs get obsolete as productivity increases - but new industries are always popping up.

While it's fun to go through this once in a while and learn something new, it's doubtful that anyone will change their point of view. I spend my days looking for new ways to do things and I'm not too rooted in staying the course. Not everyone is like me. To be honest, even though I love my gasoline cars, I'd love to be at the front of discovering a new energy source so our country could be more self sufficient AND reverse the trade gap we have now. That's hard to do when maintaining the status quo.

Troy

[ACUDANUT]

HMMM, this sounds political. 
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

[JB400]

 

[skip68]

HMMM, this sounds political. 

   

[Cooter]

HMMM, this sounds political. 
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

Lemme hear you touting that BS when you buy a brand new FORD Diesel truck for $60K and a week later that PIECE OF SH*T 6.0 liter blows a head gasket from an EGR valve leaking coolant and it costs you over $10K to fix it with JAPAN parts.

[skip68]

To be honest, even though I love my gasoline cars, I'd love to be at the front of discovering a new energy source so our country could be more self sufficient AND reverse the trade gap we have now. That's hard to do when maintaining the status quo.
Troy

   That would be nice.  You're a smart guy Troy, think of something.   

[ACUDANUT]

HMMM, this sounds political. 
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

Lemme hear you touting that BS when you buy a brand new FORD Diesel truck for $60K and a week later that PIECE OF SH*T 6.0 liter blows a head gasket from an EGR valve leaking coolant and it costs you over $10K to fix it with JAPAN parts.

Cooter, where have you been the  6.0," P.O.S."  has not been built in 5-6 years. Yea, it was a bad engine.....Built by International/Navistar > Not Ford

[odcics2]

HMMM, this sounds political. 
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

Lemme hear you touting that BS when you buy a brand new FORD Diesel truck for $60K and a week later that PIECE OF SH*T 6.0 liter blows a head gasket from an EGR valve leaking coolant and it costs you over $10K to fix it with JAPAN parts.

If it was brand new, I'd wonder why it wasn't fixed under warranty?? 

[odcics2]

But the foreign car makers aren't the ones who closed American car makers' plants.

Troy

To be specific, The Big 3 closed plants as the cars produced there were not selling as well because they were being displaced by foreign built cars.  At some point, the plant closes because not enough units are being produced to be profitable.  This started before any Japanese plant existed here.
At that point, I believe the Mexican and Canadian plants were producing cars for their own countrys, not export.

We all know our beloved Chrysler had oversees connections in S.A. & Europe way back then. Not like they just said, "Lets move it all overseas!"
Some countries, like China today, state you have to produce there to sell there.   

As far as Japan, the folks there don't buy many imported cars because they support their own companies.
That will never happen here.    Too many differing opinions, as witnessed by the comments on this thread.

Look at all the other industries 'we' lost: clothes, shoes, radios and TVs, furniture, hardware, household goods, etc.   
Will 'we' ever learn?   Can we turn it around?     
With all that money leaving the country, what happens??   Hey, the other countries are then able to BUY us out and invest in US!!

Fast forward:  We make nothing here and all our assets are foreign owned.   Interesting though....  Your house payment goes to China! 

[Troy]

Really? The domestic manufacturers ignored quality control, fuel efficiency, and customer demand for so long it was ridiculous. Serves them right for losing market share. Not all plants were closed due to decreased sales. Many were closed because they weren't viable and/or it's just plain cheaper to build stuff elsewhere.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-09/gm-ford-to-accelerate-growth-at-mexico-plants-where-workers-get-26-a-day.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effect-nafta-us-auto-industry-199616.html

Troy

[odcics2]

Really? The domestic manufacturers ignored quality control, fuel efficiency, and customer demand for so long it was ridiculous. Serves them right for losing market share. Not all plants were closed due to decreased sales. Many were closed because they weren't viable and/or it's just plain cheaper to build stuff elsewhere.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-09/gm-ford-to-accelerate-growth-at-mexico-plants-where-workers-get-26-a-day.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effect-nafta-us-auto-industry-199616.html

Troy

What do your two links have to do with the 70s, 80s or most of the 90s? 
It's no secret the Big 3 ignored the things you state.  Yes, they did lose market share. That is a fact.  What is also a fact is that what they lost will most likely never come back and along with it the 645,000 middle class jobs that went with it. 

Anyway - back to the thread topic:

Today Toyota settled a lawsuit for unintended acceleration: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/toyota-settles-wrongful-death-lawsuit-1B8022569
The article makes for a good read.

Also noteworthy: Honda is off to another good start for 2013 Recall King honors as it tries to unseat the reigning champion, Toyota: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/honda-recalls-750-000-vehicles-airbag-defects-1B8035619

   

[1974dodgecharger]

Really? The domestic manufacturers ignored quality control, fuel efficiency, and customer demand for so long it was ridiculous. Serves them right for losing market share. Not all plants were closed due to decreased sales. Many were closed because they weren't viable and/or it's just plain cheaper to build stuff elsewhere.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-09/gm-ford-to-accelerate-growth-at-mexico-plants-where-workers-get-26-a-day.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effect-nafta-us-auto-industry-199616.html

Troy

LIFE is cyclic what comes up must come down!  Havent we learned that yet. American car manufacturers were kings and we lasted our reign and foreign car makers were 2nd to us no matter what they did. NOw the foriegners are Kings and we are 2nd class car makers and hey thats ok because in 20 years I promise you this: they will be 2nd again vs us North American car makers!

Last time I checked in the early years no little honda 1 Liter ever beat  a muscle car EVER!! 

Quality back then was just as bad for those foreigners also!  Just my opinion its easier to make a 1L engine than a big engine thats where we had to catch up in the MPG race.  NO biggie I say....and I say this with no bias considering when my family bought a 1990 Jeep cherokee brand new with 5 miles on it and the tranny died at 32k miles (under 3 years) chrylser would not fix it becuase they claimed they have no history of servicing the car even though warranty was still good based on miles.  Thats when my parents bought a old 1993 honda accord in 96 that lasted them for over 230k miles with regular oil changes and regular tune ups and was gettting 25mpg in city/highway mix.

I still enjoy domestic or foreign cars...in the end business will always win.

[Dino]

Really? The domestic manufacturers ignored quality control, fuel efficiency, and customer demand for so long it was ridiculous. Serves them right for losing market share. Not all plants were closed due to decreased sales. Many were closed because they weren't viable and/or it's just plain cheaper to build stuff elsewhere.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-09/gm-ford-to-accelerate-growth-at-mexico-plants-where-workers-get-26-a-day.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effect-nafta-us-auto-industry-199616.html

Troy

LIFE is cyclic what comes up must come down!  Havent we learned that yet. American car manufacturers were kings and we lasted our reign and foreign car makers were 2nd to us no matter what they did. NOw the foriegners are Kings and we are 2nd class car makers and hey thats ok because in 20 years I promise you this: they will be 2nd again vs us North American car makers!

Last time I checked in the early years no little honda 1 Liter ever beat  a muscle car EVER!! 

Quality back then was just as bad for those foreigners also!  Just my opinion its easier to make a 1L engine than a big engine thats where we had to catch up in the MPG race.  NO biggie I say....and I say this with no bias considering when my family bought a 1990 Jeep cherokee brand new with 5 miles on it and the tranny died at 32k miles (under 3 years) chrylser would not fix it becuase they claimed they have no history of servicing the car even though warranty was still good based on miles.  Thats when my parents bought a old 1993 honda accord in 96 that lasted them for over 230k miles with regular oil changes and regular tune ups and was gettting 25mpg in city/highway mix.

I still enjoy domestic or foreign cars...in the end business will always win.

Last time I checked, the average car buyer doesn't want a drag strip car either.     US cars have always been notorious for low(er) quality.  They have made some of the most memorable cars here to be sure, but there's a lot of garbage in there and funny enough they still make cars that can't really compete with the foreign cars.

Also don't forget the unions, they may have something to do with the sky high cost of making a car in this country.  People started buying foreign cars in this country when it became obvious they were better made, had better fuel mileage and had a lower price tag. 

I'm all about supporting your local workers but I do want the best bang for the buck.  So far, that means I'm still driving a Japanese car and that won't change until the mediocre 3 pull their heads out of their you know whats.

My car was made in Ohio with 90% US parts and that means I put some food on a few tables there.  Its maintenance is also done by a US family owned business.

As far as recalls go, I wouldn't brag too much about US cars, they had their fair share of issues.  Besides, do you really think any car maker will disclose the whole story to the public?  I don't think so.

Globalization is a touchy issue, but we chose to go for it, we decided that we wanted to spend less and get more, we are the ones that made Walmart what it is.  Try to buy only American, see how far you get.

I'd like to see more work come back to the US as much as the next guy, but our high production cost makes it impossible.  Who's going to pay $100 for a pair of jeans or $40 for a t-shirt?  Not me. 

Disclaimer:  I have no idea what the heck I'm talking about and more coffee may improve my posts.   

[Cooter]

HMMM, this sounds political.  
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

Lemme hear you touting that BS when you buy a brand new FORD Diesel truck for $60K and a week later that PIECE OF SH*T 6.0 liter blows a head gasket from an EGR valve leaking coolant and it costs you over $10K to fix it with JAPAN parts.

Cooter, where have you been the  6.0," P.O.S."  has not been built in 5-6 years. Yea, it was a bad engine.....Built by International/Navistar > Not Ford

In some circles, a 5 year old truck that costs $60K new STILL IS NEW. And it was a POS that FORD installed in their trucks no matter who the f*ck built it.
A statement splitting hairs like that, is the same as saying Mercedes didn't have anything to do with the new Hemi and it's all Mopar.

[Cooter]

Last time I checked in the early years no little honda 1 Liter ever beat  a muscle car EVER!!  

You need to be introduced to a "little" Honda Four banger we got here in a Civic...Lemme give you a hint, when you finally DO get your musclecar, I bet the Honda owner will set you out at least 2 car lengths just to make it fair.   [Runs DEEP in the 8's 1/4 mile. All from a little Four cyl.]

[ACUDANUT]

That 6.0 killed that relationship. Ford divorced Navistar after that crappy engine, and now makes their own. Don't you have a warranty. My neighbor's 6.0 still pulls a Cattle wagon that holds 14 full adults. No problems at 100k 

BTW it's Fiat now.

[1974dodgecharger]

Sorry cooter I have 3 civics right now hhahahaa....and have had 5 muscle cars in my life beside mopar until we can get drinks together you cant say what I have had in my life and didnt have  

I drove my 2nd accord a 84 model with well over 500k miles on it until the whole rear axle fell off in the Meijers parking in Michigan. I walked away and left it there hahahaha.....

Also I met back in the day as in BACK IN THE DAY no civic was gonna beat a muscle car...not a 77 civic against a 68 charger etc....

Last time I checked in the early years no little honda 1 Liter ever beat  a muscle car EVER!!  

You need to be introduced to a "little" Honda Four banger we got here in a Civic...Lemme give you a hint, when you finally DO get your musclecar, I bet the Honda owner will set you out at least 2 car lengths just to make it fair.  [Runs DEEP in the 8's 1/4 mile. All from a little Four cyl.]

[odcics2]

Newest recall - http://www.nbcnews.com/business/1-million-toyotas-recalled-wiper-airbag-issues-1B8174594

Toyota battles back and wrestles the 2013 lead from early front runner, Honda.   

[flyinlow]

Damm, now I really feel guilty. Just bought a new Accord to replace our '04 Bonneville as our primary driver. Hope it is dependable as the Tin Indian was. 220 k miles and except for hub bearings, minimal maintenance. My son's driving it now.
All the recent Mopars I have owned have had more problems then they should have.  GM sold out to Obama. I did look at the Ford produce line ,but went with the Honda which is made 50 miles from me in Ohio. I have a buddy who works on the assembly line and speaks well of the company and products.

[1970Moparmann]

For the record, I will never buy a Toyota to begin with.  All hype in my book....

Secondly, as sad as it is, ALL manufacturers play the "recall" game.  I was involved with one with Dodge back in 2000 in which the defect was causing people to die, yet they waited two years upon knowing to officially do a "recall".   I had Dodge impound my truck until an inspector from Detroit came to exam it.  I told corporate folks and local dealership to F' off the impound thing since they weren't giving me a loaner vehicle.  They didn't like it and made me sign a piece of paper to get my keys.   I contacted two lawyers at the time and they said "good luck going over one of the big three".   

[odcics2]

Honda  comes  back...


Brakes can apply - by themselves.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100553027?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity

[mauve66]

I read the whole article - not just the part you copied. It's typical sensationalistic news in my opinion. I even read several other articles on the subject. I wouldn't have responded (unlike some people) without at least knowing something about it.

I just like poking holes in statistics that are hand picked to make someone's point (while disregarding the pile of evidence that proves otherwise). Hopefully it sparks a discussion where everyone learns a little something in the end. Too many people these days write off anyone/anything that doesn't agree with them completely.

A glimpse of what I'm talking about: Toyota recalled 7.43 million cars (to fix at their expense of course) for the window switch issue after customers reported 161 fires, 9 injuries, and 0 deaths. So you have a .002% chance of experiencing a fire (1 in 46,149) and a .00012% chance of getting injured (1 in 825,556). In a single year, you have slightly better odds of accidentally suffocating/strangling in bed and are 10.5 times more likely to accidentally drown. Over your lifetime you are 8 times more likely to be bitten or crushed by "other reptile" (I couldn't figure out which reptiles were excluded but probably snakes) and nearly 20 times more likely to die from legal execution. Statistics are fun!

Troy

its funny what a little graph can do to make you think something's not as bad as it is or vice versa
the difference between each column is the same percentage on each graph but the bigger gap makes it look so much more important
(there are better examples of this but i just made up this one on the fly)

[odcics2]

Toyota - upon hearing that Honda has another recall, issued one of their own today.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/money/Toyota-recalling-200-000-FJ-Cruisers-for-seatbelt-issue/-/1719116/19335686/-/oj9crm/-/index.html

Seat belt anchor can crack, leading to ejection in an accident.     

[bull]

Interesting - but not the whole story of course (national news, why would you expect anything else?). It's a lot easier to post those numbers when you sell more cars than anyone else. Not surprisingly, the top four were Toyota, Honda, GM, and Ford. You wouldn't expect Lotus or Ferrari to be on top.

Troy

Seems to me it's the same way with Carnival Cruise Lines and Royal Caribbean and all the problems they've been so publicized with lately. Biggest cruise companies = most cruise ships = most accidents. Kind of a cause and effect thing.