Toyota beats Honda for title "Recall King of 2012"

[odcics2]

For the third time in four years, Toyota Motor Corp. recalled more vehicles than any other automaker operating in the U.S. market during 2012.

Toyota's various safety-related service actions involved a total of 5.3 million cars, trucks and crossovers last year, nearly half of those in a single recall involving potential vehicle fires.  That problem pushed the Japanese giant past Honda, which led the recall list in 2011 and came in second in 2012 with 3.9 million vehicles involved in such safety campaigns.

In October, Toyota announced the largest recall in its history -- a move impacting 7.5 million vehicles worldwide and 2.5 million in the U.S.  – due to faulty window switches that could short circuit and catch fire. In fact, problems related to vehicles plagued a variety of manufacturers in 2012. Other common problems leading to large-scale recalls involved faulty airbags, excessive corrosion and rollaway vehicles.

Honda ordered the recall of 800,000 vehicles last month due to faulty transmissions that could allow a vehicle to slip out of park and roll away unexpectedly. But Toyota's Lexus luxury division ordered the repair of 700,000 vehicles the same day due to faulty emergency trunk releases. Officially classified as a "service action," that problem was not counted in the Toyota total and would have otherwise pushed the Japanese maker's recall total to 6 million.

During Congressional hearings in February 2010 called to examine Toyota's problems with so-called unintended acceleration, the maker's chief executive Akio Toyoda promised a crackdown on safety problems and a spokesman described last year's recall record as an example of being "proactive" on potential problems.

But not everyone is taking as positive a view. The NHTSA, in fact, issued its largest single fine ever against Toyota this past year, $17.35 million for delaying a recall of Lexus vehicles involving potential problems with unexpected acceleration. It was the fourth time Toyota had paid the maximum allowable penalty for illegally delaying recalls since 2010.

The maker, meanwhile, ended last year with a tentative settlement of hundreds of unintended acceleration lawsuits expected to total as much as $1.4 billion.  But the deal reached in U.S. District Court in Santa Ana, California still leaves Toyota facing the possibility of a trial involving dozens more cases filed by those who claimed to have been injured – or on behalf of those killed – by runaway Toyota products. Those claims could be heard as early as February.

[Troy]

Interesting - but not the whole story of course (national news, why would you expect anything else?). It's a lot easier to post those numbers when you sell more cars than anyone else. Not surprisingly, the top four were Toyota, Honda, GM, and Ford. You wouldn't expect Lotus or Ferrari to be on top.

Through my own personal experience, Toyota and Honda voluntarily recall cars. My Dodge truck had so many "common" problems that Dodge refused to acknowledge that it was a joke (and there are message boards like this that detail them fully). My boss' wife has a hybrid Ford Escape that has randomly shut itself off on the highway for a couple years now and there's no talk at all of a recall. Basically, if it doesn't kill someone the NHTSA doesn't generally force a recall (ok, maybe not quite that extreme!).

Having said that, it's important to note whether the recall is a safety issue or just an inconvenience. The total number of safety issues last year actually decreased overall. In all the recalls I've participated in (about 10 I believe) only one was considered a safety issue. It was through Toyota and I was treated more than fairly. Those guys seem to take it very seriously and I'd still buy one of their cars before purchasing a new GM or Dodge. Toyota in particular will recall vehicles well after they are out of warranty (the last Prius recall, for instance, went back to 2003). By law, they only have to cover a repair after warranty if it's for safety reasons (bad airbag sensors, mechanical failures, etc.).

Troy

[odcics2]

With all due respect, did you read the post above?   Toyota was fined, yet again, for DELAYING recalls.

Being in the automotive field since 1972, I have witnessed Toyota and Honda play games with issues and having "Safety Campaigns", offering free oil changes to get customers into the dealer so they could fix another issue, unknown to the customer.   

The recall prone Prius...  Perhaps they went back to 2003 because they have had the issue since then and did nothing to fix it??   

It will be interesting to see the many law suits on behalf of former Toyota owners, now deceased, go through the court system this year.   

   

[Troy]

I read the whole article - not just the part you copied. It's typical sensationalistic news in my opinion. I even read several other articles on the subject. I wouldn't have responded (unlike some people) without at least knowing something about it.

I just like poking holes in statistics that are hand picked to make someone's point (while disregarding the pile of evidence that proves otherwise). Hopefully it sparks a discussion where everyone learns a little something in the end. Too many people these days write off anyone/anything that doesn't agree with them completely.

A glimpse of what I'm talking about: Toyota recalled 7.43 million cars (to fix at their expense of course) for the window switch issue after customers reported 161 fires, 9 injuries, and 0 deaths. So you have a .002% chance of experiencing a fire (1 in 46,149) and a .00012% chance of getting injured (1 in 825,556). In a single year, you have slightly better odds of accidentally suffocating/strangling in bed and are 10.5 times more likely to accidentally drown. Over your lifetime you are 8 times more likely to be bitten or crushed by "other reptile" (I couldn't figure out which reptiles were excluded but probably snakes) and nearly 20 times more likely to die from legal execution. Statistics are fun!

Troy

[bull]

My boss' wife has a hybrid Ford Escape that has randomly shut itself off on the highway for a couple years now and there's no talk at all of a recall.

Troy

Wow. It shut itself off on the highway a couple of years ago? Surely they've towed it by now.

[odcics2]

More stuff to keep you busy!   

Toyota has been playing games for many decades.   



   Secret Warranties | The Center for Autosafety

www.autosafety.org/secret-warranties

Dec 2, 2002 – According to a Toyota whistleblower who provided a complete list in May 1988, Toyota alone had 41 secret warranties at that time. By exposing ...

[skip68]

The thing that I hate is this computer controlled throttle crap.  Gas, steering and brakes are three main things that should always stay manually controlled.   

[JB400]

I have to agree with you there Skip   But, with ever increasing CAFE standards thanks to you know who ,  the manufactures can't take a back seat approach to anything any more

[odcics2]

The thing that I hate is this computer controlled throttle crap.  Gas, steering and brakes are three main things that should always stay manually controlled.   

New Mopars with ESP are great to drive in crap weather. There is an "off" button for those with reflexes faster than a micro processor!   

[hatersaurusrex]

Through my own personal experience, Toyota and Honda voluntarily recall cars. My Dodge truck had so many "common" problems that Dodge refused to acknowledge that it was a joke (and there are message boards like this that detail them fully). My boss' wife has a hybrid Ford Escape that has randomly shut itself off on the highway for a couple years now and there's no talk at all of a recall. Basically, if it doesn't kill someone the NHTSA doesn't generally force a recall (ok, maybe not quite that extreme!).


Troy

According to the guy in Fight Club, it's a simple formula:

                                 JACK
                 I'm a recall coordinator.  My job is
                 to apply the formula.  It's a story
                 problem.  A new car built by my company leaves
                 somewhere traveling at 60 miles per
                 hour.  The rear differential locks up.
                 The car crashes and burns with
                 everyone trapped inside.  Now: do we
                 initiate a recall?

                 Take the number of vehicles in the
                 field, (A), and multiply it by the
                 probable rate of failure, (B), then
                 multiply the result by the average
                 out-of-court settlement, (C).  A
                 times B times C equals X...

                 If X is less than the cost of a
                 recall, we don't do one.

                             BUSINESS WOMAN
                 Are there a lot of these kinds of
                 accidents?

                             JACK
                 Oh, you wouldn't believe.

                             BUSINESS WOMAN
                 ... Which... car company do you work
                 for?

                             JACK
                 A major one.

[odcics2]

Bottom line:  , and lots of it...

[aussiemuscle]

hmm, toyota sells the most cars and has the highest recall numbers. no surprise there.

Toyota was fined, yet again, for DELAYING recalls.

they probably saved more money delaying it and paying the fine than to address the problem immediately?

[odcics2]

hmm, toyota sells the most cars and has the highest recall numbers. no surprise there.

Toyota was fined, yet again, for DELAYING recalls.

they probably saved more money delaying it and paying the fine than to address the problem immediately?

I'll leave it to someone with more time than me to do percentages of other companies that sell less, but recall wayyy less...   

Yes - They did save money.    Tell that to the relatives of those poor folks that went off into a ravine and got killed.    

[RallyeMike]

Troy, you hit several nails on the head there.

On another note, now that the Camry has become the "most American-made" car, is it just coincidence that Toyota recalls have become so high? No! Clearly, the Japanese execs are recalling more cars just to make the American worker look bad. 

[odcics2]

Troy, you hit several nails on the head there.

On another note, now that the Camry has become the "most American-made" car, is it just coincidence that Toyota recalls have become so high? No! Clearly, the Japanese execs are recalling more cars just to make the American worker look bad. 

Nice try, but they have inherent design flaws!   

Well, if we can get Toyota to incorporate in the US, pay all their taxes here, invest all their money here, well, I'd buy that 'most American car' crap. 
Right now all the $$$ goes to Japan.

[Troy]

Troy, you hit several nails on the head there.

On another note, now that the Camry has become the "most American-made" car, is it just coincidence that Toyota recalls have become so high? No! Clearly, the Japanese execs are recalling more cars just to make the American worker look bad. 

Nice try, but they have inherent design flaws!   

Well, if we can get Toyota to incorporate in the US, pay all their taxes here, invest all their money here, well, I'd buy that 'most American car' crap. 
Right now all the $$$ goes to Japan.

Correction: the profits go to Japan. So let's see, that's about, what, 7%? I'm not willing to rehash that whole conversation.

Any way, if we're whining about non-American companies in this recall conversation I'd like to point out that the largest cause of death (in recent memory) has been the Firestone tire recall. Blame the French!

Troy

[Cooter]

All I know is I had a Subaru with 611K miles on it when I sold it and the "New" owner is still driving it. I now have a Toyota Pick up 1994, that has 294K on it and one timing chain. [22RE]. Wifey's 2001 Toyota Corolla we bought used with 45K on it, now has over 350K on the original Engine/trans. [Auto]. Military son's Honda Civic has 450K on it with only one clutch replacement.

Last AMerican car I owned (Chevy Corsica)made it to 224K with only a New Engine, Trans 4 FOUR times, New Rack and Pinion, New radiator, New axles about every 40K, at least 5 ignition switches under steering column.

Recalls or not, I still believe as long as they last like they do, For my money, The Japs can keep on doing what they are doing.

[Rolling_Thunder]

The important part is Toyota is a major company that is employing Americans while most other large car makers were farming out work to Canada and Mexico...     

[Troy]

The important part is Toyota is a major company that is employing Americans while most other large car makers were farming out work to Canada and Mexico...     

Hey, those guys are "Americans" too!

Troy

[odcics2]

[/quote]

Any way, if we're whining about non-American companies in this recall conversation I'd like to point out that the largest cause of death (in recent memory) has been the Firestone tire recall. Blame the French!

Troy

[/quote]

    Bridgestone owns Firestone!!       And Bridgestone is a Japanese Company!!   

Hmmm, Remember how long they denied there were problems???   Yeah -  !!!!

[odcics2]

The important part is Toyota is a major company that is employing Americans while most other large car makers were farming out work to Canada and Mexico...     

More Americans worked in the auto industry for the Big 3 PRIOR to Toyota (and Honda & Nissan) setting up a few assembly plants in the US...   

[RallyeMike]

Well, if we can get Toyota to incorporate in the US, pay all their taxes here, invest all their money here, well, I'd buy that 'most American car' crap.  Twocents
Right now all the $$$ goes to Japan.

As the most-american made car, the Camry delivers big to the American tax coffers though all of the multiple levels of state and federal taxes including payroll taxes, applicable sales taxes, excise taxes, plant property taxes, taxes on the utilities that the plants use, taxes on the taxes, etc...... the list goes on nearly forever. On top of that, if you buy a Camry, you are doing your most to employ an American worker, and the American worker who has to fix all the Toyota recalls. And, if you think japan is not investing in the US, do some research. They own 20% of the US treasury debt already.

Compare to buying a Dodge Ram built in Mexico where Americans are not employed, much less taxes are collected by the US, and the profits.... well they just go to the fat cats. Not you and I.

So go out and buy a Camry and fly a American flag from the antenna to show us you really care about this country!

[odcics2]

Toyota sends you money, right??    I guess you forgot about the countless millions of tax breaks they get to set up a plant in a green belt state!!   (research that) yeah - 20-30 years with NO TAXES.

The majority of Rams are built in Warren, MI.     Last I heard, that was in the United States.   

I guess you didn't know that Japan's strategy is to dominate the globe economically, since they failed militarily.   (research that) So, yes, they want to buy us all up!


So - Huge multi-decade tax breaks, new cheap workforce with no pension obligations & poor benefits to build recall-prone cars & trucks...

[Cooter]

MY 1999 Ram 2500 says "Built in MExico"....

[Troy]

This is getting way off topic but...

Any way, if we're whining about non-American companies in this recall conversation I'd like to point out that the largest cause of death (in recent memory) has been the Firestone tire recall. Blame the French!

Troy

    Bridgestone owns Firestone!!       And Bridgestone is a Japanese Company!!   

Hmmm, Remember how long they denied there were problems???   Yeah -  !!!!

You are correct, I had it backwards (I was thinking Firestone owed Bridgestone). Although, Firestone also had a major tire coverup in the late 70s as well.

The important part is Toyota is a major company that is employing Americans while most other large car makers were farming out work to Canada and Mexico...     

More Americans worked in the auto industry for the Big 3 PRIOR to Toyota (and Honda & Nissan) setting up a few assembly plants in the US...   

A few? Might want to check your research. The tax breaks are property taxes. That's like a drop in the bucket compared to all the other revenue. Why do you suppose the US manufacturers don't take the same deal and, instead, move production elsewhere?

A quick looks shows foreign auto companies employ over 55,000 US workers and have invested more than $22 billion dollars locally. Yes, they do it to make money. Hardly surprising. But is it all bad? An example: suppose my neighbor "Bob" builds cars using parts made by my other neighbor "Fred" which are sold by another neighbor "Mary". Each of them owns a home (and pays gas, electric, water, sewer, phone, etc.), pays income, school, and property taxes, goes out to dinner, movies, theater, and sporting events, and buys groceries, gas, electronics, appliances, furniture, clothing, toys, and sporting equipment. Each of those three people indirectly "supports" hundreds of other people (delivery drivers, cashiers, waitresses, sales people, stock clerks, landscapers, dry cleaners, janitors, teachers, politicians, policemen, firefighters, coaches, therapists, auto repair technicians, construction workers, HVAC technicians, electricians, plumbers, surveyors, caddies, interior designers, auto detailers, hotel staff, farmer's markets, Avon ladies, and on and on. The plant itself directly supports trucking companies, caterers, construction companies, railroads, utilities, and janitorial, landscaping, electrical, HVAC, and plumbing contractors. Every time money changes hands it benefits another person - and it's taxed!

BUT... I'm supposed to buy a car made in, for example, Mexico by Juan and Jose (who live in Mexico and spend their money in Mexico which benefits other Mexicans) just because the company is US owned (at least partially) and the 5-7% profits go to some rich guys who get humongous tax breaks? The local economy is only boosted by the sales tax, transportation, and a few people's salaries. The pension funds at US manufacturers are woefully underfunded so, much like social security, there won't be anything left for some people when they expect it. That is not a plus in my opinion since the money will be "borrowed" from somewhere else until the problem is too massive to manage.

Yeah, I know Toyota and Honda don't build every car here - but Ford, Chrysler, and GM don't build every car here either. None of them produce 100% of the parts that they use. American car companies export cars as well as import them.

FYI - the Ram 1500 is built in Michigan - but the 2500 and 3500 as well as the Hemi engine are all made in Mexico.

Troy