Toyota beats Honda for title "Recall King of 2012"

[odcics2]

For the third time in four years, Toyota Motor Corp. recalled more vehicles than any other automaker operating in the U.S. market during 2012.

Toyota's various safety-related service actions involved a total of 5.3 million cars, trucks and crossovers last year, nearly half of those in a single recall involving potential vehicle fires.  That problem pushed the Japanese giant past Honda, which led the recall list in 2011 and came in second in 2012 with 3.9 million vehicles involved in such safety campaigns.

In October, Toyota announced the largest recall in its history -- a move impacting 7.5 million vehicles worldwide and 2.5 million in the U.S.  – due to faulty window switches that could short circuit and catch fire. In fact, problems related to vehicles plagued a variety of manufacturers in 2012. Other common problems leading to large-scale recalls involved faulty airbags, excessive corrosion and rollaway vehicles.

Honda ordered the recall of 800,000 vehicles last month due to faulty transmissions that could allow a vehicle to slip out of park and roll away unexpectedly. But Toyota's Lexus luxury division ordered the repair of 700,000 vehicles the same day due to faulty emergency trunk releases. Officially classified as a "service action," that problem was not counted in the Toyota total and would have otherwise pushed the Japanese maker's recall total to 6 million.

During Congressional hearings in February 2010 called to examine Toyota's problems with so-called unintended acceleration, the maker's chief executive Akio Toyoda promised a crackdown on safety problems and a spokesman described last year's recall record as an example of being "proactive" on potential problems.

But not everyone is taking as positive a view. The NHTSA, in fact, issued its largest single fine ever against Toyota this past year, $17.35 million for delaying a recall of Lexus vehicles involving potential problems with unexpected acceleration. It was the fourth time Toyota had paid the maximum allowable penalty for illegally delaying recalls since 2010.

The maker, meanwhile, ended last year with a tentative settlement of hundreds of unintended acceleration lawsuits expected to total as much as $1.4 billion.  But the deal reached in U.S. District Court in Santa Ana, California still leaves Toyota facing the possibility of a trial involving dozens more cases filed by those who claimed to have been injured – or on behalf of those killed – by runaway Toyota products. Those claims could be heard as early as February.

[Troy]

Interesting - but not the whole story of course (national news, why would you expect anything else?). It's a lot easier to post those numbers when you sell more cars than anyone else. Not surprisingly, the top four were Toyota, Honda, GM, and Ford. You wouldn't expect Lotus or Ferrari to be on top.

Through my own personal experience, Toyota and Honda voluntarily recall cars. My Dodge truck had so many "common" problems that Dodge refused to acknowledge that it was a joke (and there are message boards like this that detail them fully). My boss' wife has a hybrid Ford Escape that has randomly shut itself off on the highway for a couple years now and there's no talk at all of a recall. Basically, if it doesn't kill someone the NHTSA doesn't generally force a recall (ok, maybe not quite that extreme!).

Having said that, it's important to note whether the recall is a safety issue or just an inconvenience. The total number of safety issues last year actually decreased overall. In all the recalls I've participated in (about 10 I believe) only one was considered a safety issue. It was through Toyota and I was treated more than fairly. Those guys seem to take it very seriously and I'd still buy one of their cars before purchasing a new GM or Dodge. Toyota in particular will recall vehicles well after they are out of warranty (the last Prius recall, for instance, went back to 2003). By law, they only have to cover a repair after warranty if it's for safety reasons (bad airbag sensors, mechanical failures, etc.).

Troy

[odcics2]

With all due respect, did you read the post above?   Toyota was fined, yet again, for DELAYING recalls.

Being in the automotive field since 1972, I have witnessed Toyota and Honda play games with issues and having "Safety Campaigns", offering free oil changes to get customers into the dealer so they could fix another issue, unknown to the customer.   

The recall prone Prius...  Perhaps they went back to 2003 because they have had the issue since then and did nothing to fix it??   

It will be interesting to see the many law suits on behalf of former Toyota owners, now deceased, go through the court system this year.   

   

[Troy]

I read the whole article - not just the part you copied. It's typical sensationalistic news in my opinion. I even read several other articles on the subject. I wouldn't have responded (unlike some people) without at least knowing something about it.

I just like poking holes in statistics that are hand picked to make someone's point (while disregarding the pile of evidence that proves otherwise). Hopefully it sparks a discussion where everyone learns a little something in the end. Too many people these days write off anyone/anything that doesn't agree with them completely.

A glimpse of what I'm talking about: Toyota recalled 7.43 million cars (to fix at their expense of course) for the window switch issue after customers reported 161 fires, 9 injuries, and 0 deaths. So you have a .002% chance of experiencing a fire (1 in 46,149) and a .00012% chance of getting injured (1 in 825,556). In a single year, you have slightly better odds of accidentally suffocating/strangling in bed and are 10.5 times more likely to accidentally drown. Over your lifetime you are 8 times more likely to be bitten or crushed by "other reptile" (I couldn't figure out which reptiles were excluded but probably snakes) and nearly 20 times more likely to die from legal execution. Statistics are fun!

Troy

[bull]

My boss' wife has a hybrid Ford Escape that has randomly shut itself off on the highway for a couple years now and there's no talk at all of a recall.

Troy

Wow. It shut itself off on the highway a couple of years ago? Surely they've towed it by now.

[odcics2]

More stuff to keep you busy!   

Toyota has been playing games for many decades.   



   Secret Warranties | The Center for Autosafety

www.autosafety.org/secret-warranties

Dec 2, 2002 – According to a Toyota whistleblower who provided a complete list in May 1988, Toyota alone had 41 secret warranties at that time. By exposing ...

[skip68]

The thing that I hate is this computer controlled throttle crap.  Gas, steering and brakes are three main things that should always stay manually controlled.   

[JB400]

I have to agree with you there Skip   But, with ever increasing CAFE standards thanks to you know who ,  the manufactures can't take a back seat approach to anything any more

[odcics2]

The thing that I hate is this computer controlled throttle crap.  Gas, steering and brakes are three main things that should always stay manually controlled.   

New Mopars with ESP are great to drive in crap weather. There is an "off" button for those with reflexes faster than a micro processor!   

[hatersaurusrex]

Through my own personal experience, Toyota and Honda voluntarily recall cars. My Dodge truck had so many "common" problems that Dodge refused to acknowledge that it was a joke (and there are message boards like this that detail them fully). My boss' wife has a hybrid Ford Escape that has randomly shut itself off on the highway for a couple years now and there's no talk at all of a recall. Basically, if it doesn't kill someone the NHTSA doesn't generally force a recall (ok, maybe not quite that extreme!).


Troy

According to the guy in Fight Club, it's a simple formula:

                                 JACK
                 I'm a recall coordinator.  My job is
                 to apply the formula.  It's a story
                 problem.  A new car built by my company leaves
                 somewhere traveling at 60 miles per
                 hour.  The rear differential locks up.
                 The car crashes and burns with
                 everyone trapped inside.  Now: do we
                 initiate a recall?

                 Take the number of vehicles in the
                 field, (A), and multiply it by the
                 probable rate of failure, (B), then
                 multiply the result by the average
                 out-of-court settlement, (C).  A
                 times B times C equals X...

                 If X is less than the cost of a
                 recall, we don't do one.

                             BUSINESS WOMAN
                 Are there a lot of these kinds of
                 accidents?

                             JACK
                 Oh, you wouldn't believe.

                             BUSINESS WOMAN
                 ... Which... car company do you work
                 for?

                             JACK
                 A major one.

[odcics2]

Bottom line:  , and lots of it...

[aussiemuscle]

hmm, toyota sells the most cars and has the highest recall numbers. no surprise there.

Toyota was fined, yet again, for DELAYING recalls.

they probably saved more money delaying it and paying the fine than to address the problem immediately?

[odcics2]

hmm, toyota sells the most cars and has the highest recall numbers. no surprise there.

Toyota was fined, yet again, for DELAYING recalls.

they probably saved more money delaying it and paying the fine than to address the problem immediately?

I'll leave it to someone with more time than me to do percentages of other companies that sell less, but recall wayyy less...   

Yes - They did save money.    Tell that to the relatives of those poor folks that went off into a ravine and got killed.    

[RallyeMike]

Troy, you hit several nails on the head there.

On another note, now that the Camry has become the "most American-made" car, is it just coincidence that Toyota recalls have become so high? No! Clearly, the Japanese execs are recalling more cars just to make the American worker look bad. 

[odcics2]

Troy, you hit several nails on the head there.

On another note, now that the Camry has become the "most American-made" car, is it just coincidence that Toyota recalls have become so high? No! Clearly, the Japanese execs are recalling more cars just to make the American worker look bad. 

Nice try, but they have inherent design flaws!   

Well, if we can get Toyota to incorporate in the US, pay all their taxes here, invest all their money here, well, I'd buy that 'most American car' crap. 
Right now all the $$$ goes to Japan.

[Troy]

Troy, you hit several nails on the head there.

On another note, now that the Camry has become the "most American-made" car, is it just coincidence that Toyota recalls have become so high? No! Clearly, the Japanese execs are recalling more cars just to make the American worker look bad. 

Nice try, but they have inherent design flaws!   

Well, if we can get Toyota to incorporate in the US, pay all their taxes here, invest all their money here, well, I'd buy that 'most American car' crap. 
Right now all the $$$ goes to Japan.

Correction: the profits go to Japan. So let's see, that's about, what, 7%? I'm not willing to rehash that whole conversation.

Any way, if we're whining about non-American companies in this recall conversation I'd like to point out that the largest cause of death (in recent memory) has been the Firestone tire recall. Blame the French!

Troy

[Cooter]

All I know is I had a Subaru with 611K miles on it when I sold it and the "New" owner is still driving it. I now have a Toyota Pick up 1994, that has 294K on it and one timing chain. [22RE]. Wifey's 2001 Toyota Corolla we bought used with 45K on it, now has over 350K on the original Engine/trans. [Auto]. Military son's Honda Civic has 450K on it with only one clutch replacement.

Last AMerican car I owned (Chevy Corsica)made it to 224K with only a New Engine, Trans 4 FOUR times, New Rack and Pinion, New radiator, New axles about every 40K, at least 5 ignition switches under steering column.

Recalls or not, I still believe as long as they last like they do, For my money, The Japs can keep on doing what they are doing.

[Rolling_Thunder]

The important part is Toyota is a major company that is employing Americans while most other large car makers were farming out work to Canada and Mexico...     

[Troy]

The important part is Toyota is a major company that is employing Americans while most other large car makers were farming out work to Canada and Mexico...     

Hey, those guys are "Americans" too!

Troy

[odcics2]

[/quote]

Any way, if we're whining about non-American companies in this recall conversation I'd like to point out that the largest cause of death (in recent memory) has been the Firestone tire recall. Blame the French!

Troy

[/quote]

    Bridgestone owns Firestone!!       And Bridgestone is a Japanese Company!!   

Hmmm, Remember how long they denied there were problems???   Yeah -  !!!!

[odcics2]

The important part is Toyota is a major company that is employing Americans while most other large car makers were farming out work to Canada and Mexico...     

More Americans worked in the auto industry for the Big 3 PRIOR to Toyota (and Honda & Nissan) setting up a few assembly plants in the US...   

[RallyeMike]

Well, if we can get Toyota to incorporate in the US, pay all their taxes here, invest all their money here, well, I'd buy that 'most American car' crap.  Twocents
Right now all the $$$ goes to Japan.

As the most-american made car, the Camry delivers big to the American tax coffers though all of the multiple levels of state and federal taxes including payroll taxes, applicable sales taxes, excise taxes, plant property taxes, taxes on the utilities that the plants use, taxes on the taxes, etc...... the list goes on nearly forever. On top of that, if you buy a Camry, you are doing your most to employ an American worker, and the American worker who has to fix all the Toyota recalls. And, if you think japan is not investing in the US, do some research. They own 20% of the US treasury debt already.

Compare to buying a Dodge Ram built in Mexico where Americans are not employed, much less taxes are collected by the US, and the profits.... well they just go to the fat cats. Not you and I.

So go out and buy a Camry and fly a American flag from the antenna to show us you really care about this country!

[odcics2]

Toyota sends you money, right??    I guess you forgot about the countless millions of tax breaks they get to set up a plant in a green belt state!!   (research that) yeah - 20-30 years with NO TAXES.

The majority of Rams are built in Warren, MI.     Last I heard, that was in the United States.   

I guess you didn't know that Japan's strategy is to dominate the globe economically, since they failed militarily.   (research that) So, yes, they want to buy us all up!


So - Huge multi-decade tax breaks, new cheap workforce with no pension obligations & poor benefits to build recall-prone cars & trucks...

[Cooter]

MY 1999 Ram 2500 says "Built in MExico"....

[Troy]

This is getting way off topic but...

Any way, if we're whining about non-American companies in this recall conversation I'd like to point out that the largest cause of death (in recent memory) has been the Firestone tire recall. Blame the French!

Troy

    Bridgestone owns Firestone!!       And Bridgestone is a Japanese Company!!   

Hmmm, Remember how long they denied there were problems???   Yeah -  !!!!

You are correct, I had it backwards (I was thinking Firestone owed Bridgestone). Although, Firestone also had a major tire coverup in the late 70s as well.

The important part is Toyota is a major company that is employing Americans while most other large car makers were farming out work to Canada and Mexico...     

More Americans worked in the auto industry for the Big 3 PRIOR to Toyota (and Honda & Nissan) setting up a few assembly plants in the US...   

A few? Might want to check your research. The tax breaks are property taxes. That's like a drop in the bucket compared to all the other revenue. Why do you suppose the US manufacturers don't take the same deal and, instead, move production elsewhere?

A quick looks shows foreign auto companies employ over 55,000 US workers and have invested more than $22 billion dollars locally. Yes, they do it to make money. Hardly surprising. But is it all bad? An example: suppose my neighbor "Bob" builds cars using parts made by my other neighbor "Fred" which are sold by another neighbor "Mary". Each of them owns a home (and pays gas, electric, water, sewer, phone, etc.), pays income, school, and property taxes, goes out to dinner, movies, theater, and sporting events, and buys groceries, gas, electronics, appliances, furniture, clothing, toys, and sporting equipment. Each of those three people indirectly "supports" hundreds of other people (delivery drivers, cashiers, waitresses, sales people, stock clerks, landscapers, dry cleaners, janitors, teachers, politicians, policemen, firefighters, coaches, therapists, auto repair technicians, construction workers, HVAC technicians, electricians, plumbers, surveyors, caddies, interior designers, auto detailers, hotel staff, farmer's markets, Avon ladies, and on and on. The plant itself directly supports trucking companies, caterers, construction companies, railroads, utilities, and janitorial, landscaping, electrical, HVAC, and plumbing contractors. Every time money changes hands it benefits another person - and it's taxed!

BUT... I'm supposed to buy a car made in, for example, Mexico by Juan and Jose (who live in Mexico and spend their money in Mexico which benefits other Mexicans) just because the company is US owned (at least partially) and the 5-7% profits go to some rich guys who get humongous tax breaks? The local economy is only boosted by the sales tax, transportation, and a few people's salaries. The pension funds at US manufacturers are woefully underfunded so, much like social security, there won't be anything left for some people when they expect it. That is not a plus in my opinion since the money will be "borrowed" from somewhere else until the problem is too massive to manage.

Yeah, I know Toyota and Honda don't build every car here - but Ford, Chrysler, and GM don't build every car here either. None of them produce 100% of the parts that they use. American car companies export cars as well as import them.

FYI - the Ram 1500 is built in Michigan - but the 2500 and 3500 as well as the Hemi engine are all made in Mexico.

Troy

[odcics2]

Another quick look shows that almost a MILLION guys were building cars in the US for the Big 3 in 1979.
That Big 3 figure is down under 300,000.
Add the figure of 55,000 for Japanese plants, (your figure) and you still get a HUGE net loss of 645,000 good paying, middle class, American jobs, lost since 1979.

Now, use you same example of "Bob" and "Fred".   Except multiply it by the 645,000 number of folks that USED to be employed building cars in the US. You can see my point.

When I said there were a "few" plants opened by foreign car companies, I mean in comparison to all the Big 3 plants that have closed over the decades.  When you add up how many cars have been imported by the Japanese companies, that figure displaced cars made here.  Prior to the mid 80s, ALL Japanese cars were imported. I don't have the % for today of import vs built here by Japanese companies.

I agree about overpaid CEOs.       What can be done about greed?  

Lastly, all this 'GLOBAL' crap is bringing our wages DOWN to compete with 3rd world countries, IMO.            

[Troy]

But the foreign car makers aren't the ones who closed American car makers' plants. They bring jobs here while US manufacturers ship them away. Blame that squarely on the US manufacturers. I've lost the study that I read earlier today showing that overall productivity is nearly equal between US and foreign manufacturers (but it shouldn't be hard to find). So if you're getting the same out of your workers then why does one group send jobs elsewhere while the other group moves them here? If the foreign manufacturers did NOT build plants here then your numbers would show a bigger impact. If you want to see something sad, read about the British car manufacturing. Most of those companies ended up owned by the US at one point.

There weren't any computer manufacturers, web site designers/builders/hosts, cell phone networks or manufacturers, satellite TV broadcasts, bloggers, arena football or major league soccer (in the US) in 1979. The manufacturing landscape looked completely different 33 years prior to that as well (1946).  Things change. Jobs get obsolete as productivity increases - but new industries are always popping up.

While it's fun to go through this once in a while and learn something new, it's doubtful that anyone will change their point of view. I spend my days looking for new ways to do things and I'm not too rooted in staying the course. Not everyone is like me. To be honest, even though I love my gasoline cars, I'd love to be at the front of discovering a new energy source so our country could be more self sufficient AND reverse the trade gap we have now. That's hard to do when maintaining the status quo.

Troy

[ACUDANUT]

HMMM, this sounds political. 
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

[JB400]

 

[skip68]

HMMM, this sounds political. 

   

[Cooter]

HMMM, this sounds political. 
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

Lemme hear you touting that BS when you buy a brand new FORD Diesel truck for $60K and a week later that PIECE OF SH*T 6.0 liter blows a head gasket from an EGR valve leaking coolant and it costs you over $10K to fix it with JAPAN parts.

[skip68]

To be honest, even though I love my gasoline cars, I'd love to be at the front of discovering a new energy source so our country could be more self sufficient AND reverse the trade gap we have now. That's hard to do when maintaining the status quo.
Troy

   That would be nice.  You're a smart guy Troy, think of something.   

[ACUDANUT]

HMMM, this sounds political. 
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

Lemme hear you touting that BS when you buy a brand new FORD Diesel truck for $60K and a week later that PIECE OF SH*T 6.0 liter blows a head gasket from an EGR valve leaking coolant and it costs you over $10K to fix it with JAPAN parts.

Cooter, where have you been the  6.0," P.O.S."  has not been built in 5-6 years. Yea, it was a bad engine.....Built by International/Navistar > Not Ford

[odcics2]

HMMM, this sounds political. 
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

Lemme hear you touting that BS when you buy a brand new FORD Diesel truck for $60K and a week later that PIECE OF SH*T 6.0 liter blows a head gasket from an EGR valve leaking coolant and it costs you over $10K to fix it with JAPAN parts.

If it was brand new, I'd wonder why it wasn't fixed under warranty?? 

[odcics2]

But the foreign car makers aren't the ones who closed American car makers' plants.

Troy

To be specific, The Big 3 closed plants as the cars produced there were not selling as well because they were being displaced by foreign built cars.  At some point, the plant closes because not enough units are being produced to be profitable.  This started before any Japanese plant existed here.
At that point, I believe the Mexican and Canadian plants were producing cars for their own countrys, not export.

We all know our beloved Chrysler had oversees connections in S.A. & Europe way back then. Not like they just said, "Lets move it all overseas!"
Some countries, like China today, state you have to produce there to sell there.   

As far as Japan, the folks there don't buy many imported cars because they support their own companies.
That will never happen here.    Too many differing opinions, as witnessed by the comments on this thread.

Look at all the other industries 'we' lost: clothes, shoes, radios and TVs, furniture, hardware, household goods, etc.   
Will 'we' ever learn?   Can we turn it around?     
With all that money leaving the country, what happens??   Hey, the other countries are then able to BUY us out and invest in US!!

Fast forward:  We make nothing here and all our assets are foreign owned.   Interesting though....  Your house payment goes to China! 

[Troy]

Really? The domestic manufacturers ignored quality control, fuel efficiency, and customer demand for so long it was ridiculous. Serves them right for losing market share. Not all plants were closed due to decreased sales. Many were closed because they weren't viable and/or it's just plain cheaper to build stuff elsewhere.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-09/gm-ford-to-accelerate-growth-at-mexico-plants-where-workers-get-26-a-day.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effect-nafta-us-auto-industry-199616.html

Troy

[odcics2]

Really? The domestic manufacturers ignored quality control, fuel efficiency, and customer demand for so long it was ridiculous. Serves them right for losing market share. Not all plants were closed due to decreased sales. Many were closed because they weren't viable and/or it's just plain cheaper to build stuff elsewhere.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-09/gm-ford-to-accelerate-growth-at-mexico-plants-where-workers-get-26-a-day.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effect-nafta-us-auto-industry-199616.html

Troy

What do your two links have to do with the 70s, 80s or most of the 90s? 
It's no secret the Big 3 ignored the things you state.  Yes, they did lose market share. That is a fact.  What is also a fact is that what they lost will most likely never come back and along with it the 645,000 middle class jobs that went with it. 

Anyway - back to the thread topic:

Today Toyota settled a lawsuit for unintended acceleration: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/toyota-settles-wrongful-death-lawsuit-1B8022569
The article makes for a good read.

Also noteworthy: Honda is off to another good start for 2013 Recall King honors as it tries to unseat the reigning champion, Toyota: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/honda-recalls-750-000-vehicles-airbag-defects-1B8035619

   

[1974dodgecharger]

Really? The domestic manufacturers ignored quality control, fuel efficiency, and customer demand for so long it was ridiculous. Serves them right for losing market share. Not all plants were closed due to decreased sales. Many were closed because they weren't viable and/or it's just plain cheaper to build stuff elsewhere.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-09/gm-ford-to-accelerate-growth-at-mexico-plants-where-workers-get-26-a-day.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effect-nafta-us-auto-industry-199616.html

Troy

LIFE is cyclic what comes up must come down!  Havent we learned that yet. American car manufacturers were kings and we lasted our reign and foreign car makers were 2nd to us no matter what they did. NOw the foriegners are Kings and we are 2nd class car makers and hey thats ok because in 20 years I promise you this: they will be 2nd again vs us North American car makers!

Last time I checked in the early years no little honda 1 Liter ever beat  a muscle car EVER!! 

Quality back then was just as bad for those foreigners also!  Just my opinion its easier to make a 1L engine than a big engine thats where we had to catch up in the MPG race.  NO biggie I say....and I say this with no bias considering when my family bought a 1990 Jeep cherokee brand new with 5 miles on it and the tranny died at 32k miles (under 3 years) chrylser would not fix it becuase they claimed they have no history of servicing the car even though warranty was still good based on miles.  Thats when my parents bought a old 1993 honda accord in 96 that lasted them for over 230k miles with regular oil changes and regular tune ups and was gettting 25mpg in city/highway mix.

I still enjoy domestic or foreign cars...in the end business will always win.

[Dino]

Really? The domestic manufacturers ignored quality control, fuel efficiency, and customer demand for so long it was ridiculous. Serves them right for losing market share. Not all plants were closed due to decreased sales. Many were closed because they weren't viable and/or it's just plain cheaper to build stuff elsewhere.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-09/gm-ford-to-accelerate-growth-at-mexico-plants-where-workers-get-26-a-day.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effect-nafta-us-auto-industry-199616.html

Troy

LIFE is cyclic what comes up must come down!  Havent we learned that yet. American car manufacturers were kings and we lasted our reign and foreign car makers were 2nd to us no matter what they did. NOw the foriegners are Kings and we are 2nd class car makers and hey thats ok because in 20 years I promise you this: they will be 2nd again vs us North American car makers!

Last time I checked in the early years no little honda 1 Liter ever beat  a muscle car EVER!! 

Quality back then was just as bad for those foreigners also!  Just my opinion its easier to make a 1L engine than a big engine thats where we had to catch up in the MPG race.  NO biggie I say....and I say this with no bias considering when my family bought a 1990 Jeep cherokee brand new with 5 miles on it and the tranny died at 32k miles (under 3 years) chrylser would not fix it becuase they claimed they have no history of servicing the car even though warranty was still good based on miles.  Thats when my parents bought a old 1993 honda accord in 96 that lasted them for over 230k miles with regular oil changes and regular tune ups and was gettting 25mpg in city/highway mix.

I still enjoy domestic or foreign cars...in the end business will always win.

Last time I checked, the average car buyer doesn't want a drag strip car either.     US cars have always been notorious for low(er) quality.  They have made some of the most memorable cars here to be sure, but there's a lot of garbage in there and funny enough they still make cars that can't really compete with the foreign cars.

Also don't forget the unions, they may have something to do with the sky high cost of making a car in this country.  People started buying foreign cars in this country when it became obvious they were better made, had better fuel mileage and had a lower price tag. 

I'm all about supporting your local workers but I do want the best bang for the buck.  So far, that means I'm still driving a Japanese car and that won't change until the mediocre 3 pull their heads out of their you know whats.

My car was made in Ohio with 90% US parts and that means I put some food on a few tables there.  Its maintenance is also done by a US family owned business.

As far as recalls go, I wouldn't brag too much about US cars, they had their fair share of issues.  Besides, do you really think any car maker will disclose the whole story to the public?  I don't think so.

Globalization is a touchy issue, but we chose to go for it, we decided that we wanted to spend less and get more, we are the ones that made Walmart what it is.  Try to buy only American, see how far you get.

I'd like to see more work come back to the US as much as the next guy, but our high production cost makes it impossible.  Who's going to pay $100 for a pair of jeans or $40 for a t-shirt?  Not me. 

Disclaimer:  I have no idea what the heck I'm talking about and more coffee may improve my posts.   

[Cooter]

HMMM, this sounds political.  
When you buy a Jap car, guess who owns them. Japan.  Buy a Ford.

Lemme hear you touting that BS when you buy a brand new FORD Diesel truck for $60K and a week later that PIECE OF SH*T 6.0 liter blows a head gasket from an EGR valve leaking coolant and it costs you over $10K to fix it with JAPAN parts.

Cooter, where have you been the  6.0," P.O.S."  has not been built in 5-6 years. Yea, it was a bad engine.....Built by International/Navistar > Not Ford

In some circles, a 5 year old truck that costs $60K new STILL IS NEW. And it was a POS that FORD installed in their trucks no matter who the f*ck built it.
A statement splitting hairs like that, is the same as saying Mercedes didn't have anything to do with the new Hemi and it's all Mopar.

[Cooter]

Last time I checked in the early years no little honda 1 Liter ever beat  a muscle car EVER!!  

You need to be introduced to a "little" Honda Four banger we got here in a Civic...Lemme give you a hint, when you finally DO get your musclecar, I bet the Honda owner will set you out at least 2 car lengths just to make it fair.   [Runs DEEP in the 8's 1/4 mile. All from a little Four cyl.]

[ACUDANUT]

That 6.0 killed that relationship. Ford divorced Navistar after that crappy engine, and now makes their own. Don't you have a warranty. My neighbor's 6.0 still pulls a Cattle wagon that holds 14 full adults. No problems at 100k 

BTW it's Fiat now.

[1974dodgecharger]

Sorry cooter I have 3 civics right now hhahahaa....and have had 5 muscle cars in my life beside mopar until we can get drinks together you cant say what I have had in my life and didnt have  

I drove my 2nd accord a 84 model with well over 500k miles on it until the whole rear axle fell off in the Meijers parking in Michigan. I walked away and left it there hahahaha.....

Also I met back in the day as in BACK IN THE DAY no civic was gonna beat a muscle car...not a 77 civic against a 68 charger etc....

Last time I checked in the early years no little honda 1 Liter ever beat  a muscle car EVER!!  

You need to be introduced to a "little" Honda Four banger we got here in a Civic...Lemme give you a hint, when you finally DO get your musclecar, I bet the Honda owner will set you out at least 2 car lengths just to make it fair.  [Runs DEEP in the 8's 1/4 mile. All from a little Four cyl.]

[odcics2]

Newest recall - http://www.nbcnews.com/business/1-million-toyotas-recalled-wiper-airbag-issues-1B8174594

Toyota battles back and wrestles the 2013 lead from early front runner, Honda.   

[flyinlow]

Damm, now I really feel guilty. Just bought a new Accord to replace our '04 Bonneville as our primary driver. Hope it is dependable as the Tin Indian was. 220 k miles and except for hub bearings, minimal maintenance. My son's driving it now.
All the recent Mopars I have owned have had more problems then they should have.  GM sold out to Obama. I did look at the Ford produce line ,but went with the Honda which is made 50 miles from me in Ohio. I have a buddy who works on the assembly line and speaks well of the company and products.

[1970Moparmann]

For the record, I will never buy a Toyota to begin with.  All hype in my book....

Secondly, as sad as it is, ALL manufacturers play the "recall" game.  I was involved with one with Dodge back in 2000 in which the defect was causing people to die, yet they waited two years upon knowing to officially do a "recall".   I had Dodge impound my truck until an inspector from Detroit came to exam it.  I told corporate folks and local dealership to F' off the impound thing since they weren't giving me a loaner vehicle.  They didn't like it and made me sign a piece of paper to get my keys.   I contacted two lawyers at the time and they said "good luck going over one of the big three".   

[odcics2]

Honda  comes  back...


Brakes can apply - by themselves.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100553027?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity

[mauve66]

I read the whole article - not just the part you copied. It's typical sensationalistic news in my opinion. I even read several other articles on the subject. I wouldn't have responded (unlike some people) without at least knowing something about it.

I just like poking holes in statistics that are hand picked to make someone's point (while disregarding the pile of evidence that proves otherwise). Hopefully it sparks a discussion where everyone learns a little something in the end. Too many people these days write off anyone/anything that doesn't agree with them completely.

A glimpse of what I'm talking about: Toyota recalled 7.43 million cars (to fix at their expense of course) for the window switch issue after customers reported 161 fires, 9 injuries, and 0 deaths. So you have a .002% chance of experiencing a fire (1 in 46,149) and a .00012% chance of getting injured (1 in 825,556). In a single year, you have slightly better odds of accidentally suffocating/strangling in bed and are 10.5 times more likely to accidentally drown. Over your lifetime you are 8 times more likely to be bitten or crushed by "other reptile" (I couldn't figure out which reptiles were excluded but probably snakes) and nearly 20 times more likely to die from legal execution. Statistics are fun!

Troy

its funny what a little graph can do to make you think something's not as bad as it is or vice versa
the difference between each column is the same percentage on each graph but the bigger gap makes it look so much more important
(there are better examples of this but i just made up this one on the fly)

[odcics2]

Toyota - upon hearing that Honda has another recall, issued one of their own today.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/money/Toyota-recalling-200-000-FJ-Cruisers-for-seatbelt-issue/-/1719116/19335686/-/oj9crm/-/index.html

Seat belt anchor can crack, leading to ejection in an accident.     

[bull]

Interesting - but not the whole story of course (national news, why would you expect anything else?). It's a lot easier to post those numbers when you sell more cars than anyone else. Not surprisingly, the top four were Toyota, Honda, GM, and Ford. You wouldn't expect Lotus or Ferrari to be on top.

Troy

Seems to me it's the same way with Carnival Cruise Lines and Royal Caribbean and all the problems they've been so publicized with lately. Biggest cruise companies = most cruise ships = most accidents. Kind of a cause and effect thing.

[stripedelete]

Toyota - upon hearing that Honda has another recall, issued one of their own today.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/money/Toyota-recalling-200-000-FJ-Cruisers-for-seatbelt-issue/-/1719116/19335686/-/oj9crm/-/index.html

Seat belt anchor can crack, leading to ejection in an accident.     

Seatbelt?  I thought it was recalled for being fugly.

[odcics2]

Interesting list of number of recalls per manufacturer, so far this year:

Recalls for 2013 Model Year
FORD (13)
VOLVO (12)
CHEVROLET (9)
BMW (7)
NISSAN (6)
TOYOTA (5)
   GMC (5)
SUBARU (5)
CADILLAC (4)
MERCEDES BENZ (4)
DODGE (3)
LEXUS (2)
   HONDA (2)
INFINITI (2)
PORSCHE (2)
STERLING (1)
ACURA (1)
VOLKSWAGEN (1)
   JEEP (1)
LINCOLN (1)
HYUNDAI (1)
CHRYSLER (1)
TRIUMPH (1)
JAGUAR (1)

[bull]

Fugly is a word that should not be misused or its meaning will be diminished. "Fugly" should be reserved for cars like this:

[dyslexic teddybear]

Fugly is a word that should not be misused or its meaning will be diminished. "Fugly" should be reserved for cars like this:

Absolutely correct.

Hard to believe.....but someone I am sure, will top that. But then again.....the bar IS set pretty high......

[stripedelete]

The horror......

[Old Moparz]

I know that a recall is usually a safety issue but sometimes known problems that a very common really suck.    There are two things I wish were recalled on our vehicles.

After reading on several forums I found out that on my Dodge Ram 1500 that the grab handles on the front windshield pillars breaking is common. There was even a lawsuit filed because an elderly woman fell when the handle broke off. The handle is hollow plastic & has absolutely no reinforcement at all. Two bolts pass through it & anchor it to the pillar. Mine is broken on the driver's side & I can't believe some moronic engineer would design a Fisher-Price handle for people to grab onto.

My wife's Mitsubishi Endeavor leaks water inside the car from a poorly designed drain that is supposed to allow condensation from the A/C & defroster exit through the floor. It doesn't & it pours in on the driver's side & fills up. I'm not exaggerating either, there is 2 to 3 inches of water in the foot well in just a few days. Again, after reading online other Mitsubishi owners have the same trouble & not just on the Endeavor. There is a service bulletin on fixing it, the entire dashboard must be removed to change a $3 hose. Labor at Mitsubishi is around $1000.

Looks like I'll be drilling a hole in the floor & running a new hose from the dash. 

[JB400]

Did anyone else hear about the V6 Challenger recall?  Supposedly, the wiring harness likes to get warm.  I didn't hear about it first hand, but it was mentioned to me. 

[dyslexic teddybear]

What I got so far.....

2500 V6 Challengers.....improper positive wire loom.....can short and cause a fire. Seems a simple fix.

[odcics2]

Not to be outdone, the Koreans are putting up a fight...   Almost 2 million worth of fight.

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2013/04/koreans-hyundai-kia-recalling-1-9-mil-vehicles/