Those Muslims don't have much of a sense of humor do they?

[bull]

I'll probably be killed just for posting this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060211/ap_on_re_mi_ea/prophet_drawings

"Saudi Arabia's top cleric said in a Friday sermon that it was too late for apologies (over the political cartoon) and those responsible for the drawings should be put on trial and punished."

[Telvis]

Thank goodness they are a religion of peace...

[Lowprofile]

Someone will most likely call for a Jihaad, then off with your head!  

[Andrew]

Looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the (insret place where muslums sleep) this morning.

[bull]

Looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the (insret place where muslums sleep) this morning.

I think the word you're looking for is "planet."

[Andrew]

LMAO

[Charger_Fan]

I like how they can make fun of any other religion on the planet & they're just fine with that...but as soon as someone pokes fun at their bassakwards religion, THEN it's a sompletely different story. Idiots.

[PocketThunder]

Just like my good friend fozzy bear would say..... wakka...wakka,...wakka!!!!

[Recharger]

Blah Blah Blah, it's an honorable religion.  Blah Blah Blah, it's just the zealots.  Blah blah blah, the same can be said of Christianity,  Blah blah blah don't overgeneralize.  Ok, now that that's been said, let's skip the drama.  Carry on.

[Charger Aficionado]

 This would be funny if the French Army wore these for PT:


  I don't know about you...  But I wouldn't mind purchasing some Muhammed Toilet Paper if they sold it.

[TK73]

I like how they can make fun of any other religion on the planet & they're just fine with that...but as soon as someone pokes fun at their bassakwards religion, THEN it's a sompletely different story.

Yep

[AKcharger]

Actually it's amazing how tolerant the world is of these Violent and hateful  people. I know of no other religion that has as part of their core belief to kill people who do not believe like them...not one. And if it is "just a few bad apples" or "confused people" Islam seems to grow 'em like crazy. You don't have world-wide Christian groups bombing buses/trains (England) You don't see organized Buddist groups hacking teenaged girls to death on their way to school because their not Muslim (Indonesia) You don't have mass coordinated killings/rapes by Jewish followers on people because their not Jews (Sudan) and you don't see Hindus killing Muslims because.....well OK strike that one...but Islam can't really be described as anything but a religion of hate...If it is please please give examples of tolerance and love...anyone?

[Lowprofile]

         Its gonna be a long wait.........get a Snickers bar!   

[Charger_Fan]

        Its gonna be a long wait.........get a Snickers bar!   

But I'm gonna use sudz.
I'm gonna need bathroom breaks while I'm waiting, I hope I don't miss it.

[Duey]

Had a crowd of "peaceful" deomonstrators pass by my digs on the way to somewhere else here in Kabul a day ago...they started heaving all sorts of stuff into our compound and chucking stones and glass bottles at our guard force out front (waiting for molotov's as other folks had gotten).  They seems to tone it down a bit after they heard a few of us up on a roof overlooking the road arm our loaded C8s (Cdn version of the M4A1 carbine) and traversed them all the time as they passed by our compound...  Interestingly, it was pretty obvious from dress that many of these folks were not local...many appeared more eastern (i.e. Pakastani) than than they did local.  From the Afghans that I know and work with, they are disappointed not so much in the Danish paper that published the cartoons originally, but more in the European  media for increasing circulation once they heard that some in the Muslim world were upset with the originals published back in September/October.  It does clearly bring to the forefront, though, the hipocrasy of those who say it offends their religious senses...so far, over 10 demonstrators have been killed in these demonstrations in Afghanistan (all by Afghan forces or "collateral" elements of the demonstration, BTW, no coalition troops have fatally wounded any demonstrators).  You'd think it would be an indicator to them that they are perhaps a bit misguided?

Duey

[AKcharger]

You be safe over there Duey!

Do they sell rugs?

[Duey]

You be safe over there Duey!

Do they sell rugs?

Will do, Bill!  Re: rugs...you bet...bought a nice "silk on silk" 4x6 for $400US, lists at over $3000 in US or Canada at rug shops! 

Duey

[Charger_Fan]

Some guy on the radio the other day said that half the reason those people are currently rioting is because a few of the Islamic clerics have taken those pics, added a few of their own (including one taken in some other country of a guy wearing a pig nose at a festival) & proceeded to stir the    a little.
Don't know how true all that is, though.

[Lowprofile]

You be safe over there Duey!

Do they sell rugs?

Will do, Bill!  Re: rugs...you bet...bought a nice "silk on silk" 4x6 for $400US, lists at over $3000 in US or Canada at rug shops! 

Duey

Be careful riding that thing.   

[Duey]

LP, it's fast, but it ain't got no 440! 

[89MOPAR]

 Well, if no-one is allowed to draw a picture of Mohammed since his death - approx the year 800 AD , then it would follow that no accurate potrait of him exists - therefore any caricature cannot be based on reality of his physical traits.   So, it's probably just a cartoon of some guy with Middle Eastern features and the word Mohammed underneath.   You'd think that an enlightened people would be smarter than that ?

[69bananabeast]

what was the actual cartoon about or does any one have a link to it? I heard about it but never actually saw what cartoon they were talking about.

[NorwayCharger]

what was the actual cartoon about or does any one have a link to it? I heard about it but never actually saw what cartoon they were talking about.

Time to boycot Egypt guys. The cartoons were reprinted in the Egyptian newspaper Al Fagr back in October 2005

Here they are http://www.di2.nu/files/Muhammed_Cartoons_Jyllands_Posten.html

[dkn1997]

I love how CNN says they won't show the cartoon because they don't want to offend muslims.  However, They could not show enough of the art exibit in NYC a few years back that showed Jesus and the Virgin mary smeared in urine and feces

Exterminate all of these fanatics.  You know it's pretty bad when Democratic Senators are saying basically the same thing. (Shumer on O'rielly factor recently saying that there is no negotiating with these animals and that europe better wake up)

[Charger4404spd]

 

[Charger4404spd]

 

[BigBlackDodge]

what was the actual cartoon about or does any one have a link to it? I heard about it but never actually saw what cartoon they were talking about.

Time to boycot Egypt guys. The cartoons were reprinted in the Egyptian newspaper Al Fagr back in October 2005

Here they are http://www.di2.nu/files/Muhammed_Cartoons_Jyllands_Posten.html

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...................aren't they expressing their freedom of expression by protesting to begin with?


Morons


BBD

[TK73]

This is cool:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons

Check out the "comparable incidents" section... 

[bull]

There's a couple questions I have about these extremists. First off, do they have jobs because even if I was a crazy freak I wouldn't have time to run around pillaging, burning and throwing rocks at everything I walk past. I've got too many things to do. Apparently they just live off the government of whatever country they happen to reside in. Second, is it just looking at them cross-eyed that makes them want to take your head off or is it the fact that we believe differently? As a Christian I could be offended 1,000 times a day, and just think how many people I'd have to behead if I used the same line of reasoning these people use. Every time one of my co-workers said God dammit or Jesus Christ I'd have to take their heads off. I know at least four of my co-workers who have committed adultery, I guess I'd have to mutilate them or stone them. Jeez, what a burden to have to go around making sure everyone thinks and acts the same way I do. I just hope these people eventually find a way to get over themselves.

[65post]

Actually it's amazing how tolerant the world is of these Violent and hateful  people. I know of no other religion that has as part of their core belief to kill people who do not believe like them...not one. And if it is "just a few bad apples" or "confused people" Islam seems to grow 'em like crazy. You don't have world-wide Christian groups bombing buses/trains (England) You don't see organized Buddist groups hacking teenaged girls to death on their way to school because their not Muslim (Indonesia) You don't have mass coordinated killings/rapes by Jewish followers on people because their not Jews (Sudan) and you don't see Hindus killing Muslims because.....well OK strike that one...but Islam can't really be described as anything but a religion of hate...If it is please please give examples of tolerance and love...anyone?

[derailed]

I think history proves religion is the route of all evil, no matter what the beliefs are, they all have there extremist wackos

[TheGhost]

I think history proves religion is the route of all evil

Not from what I've read.  Some, yes.  However, not even close to all.

[Charger Aficionado]

  That one above the Bomb-Turban Muhammed in the first links Translates:  STOP STOP, we have run out of virgins!  heh...  I saw that on another site...  Harmless cartoons. 

[4402tuff4u]

I think history proves religion is the route of all evil, no matter what the beliefs are, they all have there extremist wackos

Actually is the wackos that hijack religion and put on there own spin to religion to create conflicts and hysteria between them. 

[Orange_Crush]

  Harmless cartoons. 

That's the whole crux of the issue.

They weren't "harmless cartoons."  They were clearly meant to instigate.  Notice how no paper in the US has actually reprinted these cartoons other than for informational purposes?  The european newspapers did it as a "solidarity" move in order to show that they supported the Danish paper.  Why do you suppose US papers didn't?

Lemme answer that.

1.  The cartoons weren't funny...or really even that imaginative.

2.  The cartoons were first published in SEPTEMBER!  That's right, they were published four months ago.  WHen they were first published, there was a backlash, people in the middle east buycotted Danish goods, etc.  But there were no riots, no embassy burning, no attacks on westerners...why?  Because this was largely seen as an incident where one guy and one newspaper in one country did something objectionable and this would largely be forgotten in a few months.

When the French and German newspapers decided that they would republish the cartoons in a brazen publici...er...solidarity move to show their support of freedom of the press, that's when the Muslims got pissed.  A few well placed high-up extremists fanned the flames showing the cartoons as an example of how the west hates Islam and blah blah blah...you know the rest of the story.

Surprisingly, newspapers in the US showed restraint.

SO now, the newspapers got their fame...and they, and their countries and fellow citizens are now targets for every Kuran-waving fanatic in Denmark, France, and Germany.

You reap what you sow.

[Duey]

Orange Crush, from my take here in Kabul working with Afghans on a daily basis, and having seen the cartoons fist come out in September and listening to my Afghan co-workers discuss the issue rationally, I'd say you are about as close to bang on as I've heard in a long time.  I don't question the Danish paper's publishing of the cartoons, although I do understand (double standard notwithstanding) why Muslims were upset with them (note: again, I will acknowledge the double standard of some Muslims), but I think some of the European press, MANY MONTHS later after the issues first died down peacefully, fanned the dying embers...remember...French, German, others...sound like these folks get into other issues in a different manner than we might? 

Mein 2¢,

Duey

[CaptMarvel]

I think history proves religion is the route of all evil, no matter what the beliefs are, they all have there extremist wackos

Sorry, but I think you're a bit "derailed" from the truth. Yes, true, alot of blood has been shed in the name of religion (almost all from zealots who obviously didnt understand the meaning of God, faith or doctrine to begin with, and therefore cant be classified as religious people) Cases in point: a bomb throwing Catholic extremeist in the British Isles or "Mormon" splinter groups still practicing polygamy after 1890 really are not living their true faiths & are therefore not religious people, so dont blame the good people who are walking the walk. But if we are to believe your statement, then wouldnt it also stand to reason, seeing all the good that has come out of faith & religion, since the dawn of time, that it is the root of all that is good as well?

[nh_mopar_fan]

  Harmless cartoons. 

That's the whole crux of the issue.

They weren't "harmless cartoons."  They were clearly meant to instigate.  Notice how no paper in the US has actually reprinted these cartoons other than for informational purposes?  The european newspapers did it as a "solidarity" move in order to show that they supported the Danish paper.  Why do you suppose US papers didn't?

Lemme answer that.

1.  The cartoons weren't funny...or really even that imaginative.

2.  The cartoons were first published in SEPTEMBER!  That's right, they were published four months ago.  WHen they were first published, there was a backlash, people in the middle east buycotted Danish goods, etc.  But there were no riots, no embassy burning, no attacks on westerners...why?  Because this was largely seen as an incident where one guy and one newspaper in one country did something objectionable and this would largely be forgotten in a few months.

When the French and German newspapers decided that they would republish the cartoons in a brazen publici...er...solidarity move to show their support of freedom of the press, that's when the Muslims got pissed.  A few well placed high-up extremists fanned the flames showing the cartoons as an example of how the west hates Islam and blah blah blah...you know the rest of the story.

Surprisingly, newspapers in the US showed restraint.

SO now, the newspapers got their fame...and they, and their countries and fellow citizens are now targets for every Kuran-waving fanatic in Denmark, France, and Germany.

You reap what you sow.

Last I checked, freedom of the press didn't exclude items that are not funny or imaginative. I really don't care what the cartoons portrayed, these idiots are out there killing people over it. There is no defending their reaction.

The US papers showing restraint is pretty damn funny. Where was the restraint when they were plastering the front pages daily with pictures from Aby Graib? Were they not going to incite the same idiots? Of course they were. The US papers are gutless. They wouldn't hesitate to publish pictures of "piss Christ" because they know that the people who might be offended would not be calling for their execution.

Those pictures should've been published in every US paper, even if it were just to be included in the article on the rioting savages. To not include the picture in articles on the rioting is shoddy reporting.

[Dale The Bold]

I would think a lot of Muslims would be more offended by the reporting of the riots and killings than any cartoon.

It's fine to be offended by the cartoon, I've been offended by people who seem to be on a mission to insult Christianity (usually Atheists, actually).  And even though I'm irate when I find out about it, I've never even come close to "murderous rage."

In a way, I find it interesting that the papers didn't mind rattling a few cages, becuase it has shown how crazy these people are ("These people" meaning extremists).

And that's the problem, extremism.  It's not religion at all, but extremism.  While I wouldn't mind a little Dale The Bold worship, I would have a problem with extreme Dale The Bold worship.

And what's with the "Let's publish cartoons about the Holocaust to get back at them"?  It's the global equivalent of pushing them down on the playground and giving them a wedgie.  Settle down, Islam Extremists, I'm calling your prophet.  You're in big trouble!  Sit in the corner and think about what you did.  You can come out when your ready to apologize.


And mean it!

[Charger_Fan]

Well, if no-one is allowed to draw a picture of Mohammed since his death - approx the year 800 AD , then it would follow that no accurate potrait of him exists - therefore any caricature cannot be based on reality of his physical traits.   

No wonder that one of the turbin bomb looks more like a pissed off "Genie from the lamp".

The US papers showing restraint is pretty damn funny. Where was the restraint when they were plastering the front pages daily with pictures from Aby Graib? Were they not going to incite the same idiots? Of course they were. The US papers are gutless. They wouldn't hesitate to publish pictures of "piss Christ" because they know that the people who might be offended would not be calling for their execution.

There's just afraid of what the shoolyard bully might do to them.
Pretty lame, if you ask me.

[Orange_Crush]

Last I checked, freedom of the press didn't exclude items that are not funny or imaginative. I really don't care what the cartoons portrayed, these idiots are out there killing people over it. There is no defending their reaction.

I never said it DID exclude those things and I never said I was defending their reactions...merely offering something in the way of explanation.  I AM, however, condemning the newspapers that reprinted the cartoons.  As I said in my previous post, the original cartoons drew no more than half-hearted protests and boycotts from Muslims.  The repringting of the cartoons almost fivem months later, however, is something akin to flipping them the bird and daring them to do anything about it.  Simply an act meant to garner publicity for the papers reprinting the cartoons.

The US papers showing restraint is pretty damn funny. Where was the restraint when they were plastering the front pages daily with pictures from Aby Graib?

No restraint needed.  They were publishing an article which was news.  I figure the physical and psychological torture of prisoners in US custody is, in fact, news...and need I remind you that those pictures were made public by our own military?

Were they not going to incite the same idiots? Of course they were.

And they DID...for a little while, in Iraq, until those responsible were brought to justice.

The US papers are gutless. They wouldn't hesitate to publish pictures of "piss Christ" because they know that the people who might be offended would not be calling for their execution.

Actually, piss christ was, again, newsworthy because of the fact that politicians were calling for averything up to and including the elimination of the NEA because of it (completely misunderstood, BTW, by anyone who did not take the time to understand "piss Christ...a VERY pro-Christian piece).

Those pictures should've been published in every US paper, even if it were just to be included in the article on the rioting savages. To not include the picture in articles on the rioting is shoddy reporting.

You apparently weren't reading the newspapers.  Every article I saw contained the at least one of the cartoons (the one with the turban bomb).  The difference was, the cartoon was included for informational purposes and not as a tool to scream 'NYAAA NYAAAA NYAAA!  LOOK WHAT WE CAN DO!!!  WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT!?!?!?!"

[nh_mopar_fan]

Last I checked, freedom of the press didn't exclude items that are not funny or imaginative. I really don't care what the cartoons portrayed, these idiots are out there killing people over it. There is no defending their reaction.

I never said it DID exclude those things and I never said I was defending their reactions...merely offering something in the way of explanation.  I AM, however, condemning the newspapers that reprinted the cartoons.  As I said in my previous post, the original cartoons drew no more than half-hearted protests and boycotts from Muslims.  The repringting of the cartoons almost fivem months later, however, is something akin to flipping them the bird and daring them to do anything about it.  Simply an act meant to garner publicity for the papers reprinting the cartoons.

The US papers showing restraint is pretty damn funny. Where was the restraint when they were plastering the front pages daily with pictures from Aby Graib?

No restraint needed.  They were publishing an article which was news.  I figure the physical and psychological torture of prisoners in US custody is, in fact, news...and need I remind you that those pictures were made public by our own military?

Were they not going to incite the same idiots? Of course they were.

And they DID...for a little while, in Iraq, until those responsible were brought to justice.

The US papers are gutless. They wouldn't hesitate to publish pictures of "piss Christ" because they know that the people who might be offended would not be calling for their execution.

Actually, piss christ was, again, newsworthy because of the fact that politicians were calling for averything up to and including the elimination of the NEA because of it (completely misunderstood, BTW, by anyone who did not take the time to understand "piss Christ...a VERY pro-Christian piece).

Those pictures should've been published in every US paper, even if it were just to be included in the article on the rioting savages. To not include the picture in articles on the rioting is shoddy reporting.

You apparently weren't reading the newspapers.  Every article I saw contained the at least one of the cartoons (the one with the turban bomb).  The difference was, the cartoon was included for informational purposes and not as a tool to scream 'NYAAA NYAAAA NYAAA!  LOOK WHAT WE CAN DO!!!  WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT!?!?!?!"

and being the savages that they are, they set about killing and burning. How nice. I guess, from now on, the papers had better ask themselves "now, before we print this, if we piss someone off, will they be the type to riot and kill and come after us? Yes? Well, let's show some RESTRAINT then. No, well then Print AWAY!".

That's the line in the sand that's been drawn. I'm uncomfortable with it. Anyone else who cherishes our freedoms should be as well.

[Orange_Crush]

and being the savages that they are, they set about killing and burning. How nice. I guess, from now on, the papers had better ask themselves "now, before we print this, if we piss someone off, will they be the type to riot and kill and come after us? Yes? Well, let's show some RESTRAINT then. No, well then Print AWAY!".

That's the line in the sand that's been drawn. I'm uncomfortable with it. Anyone else who cherishes our freedoms should be as well.

There is no line in the sand.  There was no killing and burning the FIRST time these cartoons were printed. 

The second time these cartoons were printed, however, it was done for no other reason than spite, pure and simple.

I never said these guys didn't have the RIGHT to republish these cartoons, I am merely questioning their reasoning. 

In addition, the republishing of thse cartoons has given the extremists an excuse.  Every fanatical Imam from Surabaya to Karachi has been given carte blanche to foment hatred.  They can now say (whether justified or not) "Here is PROOF in writing that the west hates us!"

Poke a hornets nest and you're gonna get stung.  I strongly belive that this cartoonist, along with the editors and staff of the newspapers that printed the story, will now be sharing a room with Salman Rushdie.  I hope it was worth it.  I wonder if Al Quaida's membership has seen an increase....

[bull]

Last I checked, freedom of the press didn't exclude items that are not funny or imaginative. I really don't care what the cartoons portrayed, these idiots are out there killing people over it. There is no defending their reaction.

I never said it DID exclude those things and I never said I was defending their reactions...merely offering something in the way of explanation.  I AM, however, condemning the newspapers that reprinted the cartoons.  As I said in my previous post, the original cartoons drew no more than half-hearted protests and boycotts from Muslims.  The repringting of the cartoons almost fivem months later, however, is something akin to flipping them the bird and daring them to do anything about it.  Simply an act meant to garner publicity for the papers reprinting the cartoons.

I still don't think reprinting the cartoon warrants such vehement reaction. As I said before, if Christians in the US had the same attitude there would be lots of heads rolling because the offensive nature allowed toward Christianity is pervasive in this society. I see and hear things every day that are offensive to my faith in ways much more severe than a cartoon in a newspaper. In fact there are large-scale attacks aimed at Christianity from Hollywood quite frequently. "Jesus is Magic" with Sarah Silverman and "The Da Vinci Code" book and movie with Tom Hanks due out this year just to name a couple recent examples. I don't recall there being any bounties placed on "The Da Vinci Code" author's head such as was the case with the author of "Satanic Verses" in fact I'd venture to guess the author of "The Da Vinci Code" is enjoying great success and wealth right now. I don't enjoy the attacks but ultimately I do not believe those who go on the offensive against my faith are accountable to me and I think that's the difference between a majority of Christians and what seems to be a majority of Muslims. I don't know for sure that all or even most Muslims are offended to the point of wanting blood over the slightest little offense but it sure seems that way.

[CaptMarvel]

I never said it DID exclude those things and I never said I was defending their reactions...merely offering something in the way of explanation.  I AM, however, condemning the newspapers that reprinted the cartoons.

The way I see it, who cares if it stirs the "hornets nest" I'm sick & tired of hearing about how we should walk on eggshells around these sub-human animals. Screw em' all if they are "offended" Guess what offends me? Them!  and their own brand of praise Allah through violence crap! Some Americans need to quit cowering before these bullying half witted sand fleas, dont you know they feed on terror? They just need their rear ends kicked into the next century, which we are trying to do. Good for the newspapers that picked up on these pics, shame on our own "non-agenda'd press", they clearly werent doing their job reporting.....or maybe they too were busy cowering..

[John_Kunkel]

I think history proves religion is the route of all evil, no matter what the beliefs are, they all have there extremist wackos

Truer words were never spoken.

[bull]

I think history proves religion is the route of all evil, no matter what the beliefs are, they all have there extremist wackos

Truer words were never spoken.

Nor more generalized.

[Dale The Bold]

I think history proves religion is the route of all evil, no matter what the beliefs are, they all have there extremist wackos

Truer words were never spoken.

And the irony...

Poke a hornets nest and you're gonna get stung.

Oooh, those dang religious people, "the route(sic) of all evil."  Let's just keep insulting people who have religious beliefs because once they've been insulted enough, there will be world peace.


For the record, it's the "love of money" that is the root of all evil.

Sure, we have the crusades, 9/11, the Holocaust, and countless other atrocities throughout history all done in the name of religion, but I almost have to wonder if it's the consistent prodding, taunting, mocking and raw disrespect shown by others that drove them to that point.

Why can't people live and let live?  As a Christian, I'm embarrassed by a lot of the actions of other Christians, and I find their "witnessing" techniques to be grating, and harmful to their cause.  I also believe that many Christians lack the biblical knowledge to reasonably discuss their beliefs.  They can be annoying, at worst.  But I don't know of any cases where Christians try to lay guilt trips on entire groups because of something that someone else did.  

Why come in here and say that religion is to blame?  And then why pour salt on the insult with "Truer words have never been spoken"?  What is the motivation behind that?  Is it to make people feel bad?  Is it to "rattle the cages"?  If so, what's the point in doing that?  It'll only cause further division.

I work with atheists and hang out with them all the time.  I share many beliefs in common with them, such as evolution and I support the rights of gay people to get married.  But what really blows my mind is when someone gets all evangelical and starts up on their "Christians cause wars" or "God is as fake as the Easter Bunny" just to try to incite anger in the rest of us.  

So I see the point Orange Crush is trying to make.  Yes, it's not justified how the extremists react, but it's also not going to help make peace if all we do is deliberately offend them.

And, the root of this problem is not religion at all, it's extremism.  Islamic extremists, in this case.  But the next bomb that goes off in your neighborhood could just as easily be a animal rights extremist, or a racial extremist, etc.

So you can think your neighbor is off his rocker for believing whatever he does, but treat him with some respect, for peace's sake!

[HDCharger]

I'm with you CPT Marvel.  There is a big difference in Christianity and Islam.  In Christianity its "love thy neighbor" and in Islam its "Kill the unbeliever" .  Orange Crush indeed you are correct about reaping what you sow.  We did not seek this war, but we will finish it.  It was brought to our shores on Sept 11, 2001.  We are again fighting a World War for the very survival of our way of life.  Europe is in a bind.  They have accepted the radicals from nearly every country in the Middle East in the name of escaping political persecution.  These are extremists that were too radical for their own countries but they have protections under the law in European countries and citizenship and many cases.  America is NOT what is wrong in the world, it is what is right in the world.  We are doing the right thing at the right time for all of the civilized world.  It is not over by a long shot.  Does anyone think that the world would be a safer place if Iran had a nuclear bomb?  Call it what you will.  Crusades?  Perhaps.  Islam stretched all the way to France, Austria, Spain before it was halted.  You say what about the "Moderate" Muslims?  Yes there are moderate Muslims just as there are moderate Christians but does this mean they do not believe in the tenants of their religion?  Trust me they support what is happening.  Americans are a tolerate people, especially when it comes to religion.  But what to do when the religion teaches that America is enemy?  I could go on but I guess I best stop here before I give myself a stroke.

[lumpy]

Hey Orange, care to explain how"piss Christ" was a pro Christian piece? I'm all ears........

[my73charger]

I'm with you CPT Marvel.  There is a big difference in Christianity and Islam.  In Christianity its "love thy neighbor" and in Islam its "Kill the unbeliever" .  Orange Crush indeed you are correct about reaping what you sow.  We did not seek this war, but we will finish it.  It was brought to our shores on Sept 11, 2001.  We are again fighting a World War for the very survival of our way of life.  Europe is in a bind.  They have accepted the radicals from nearly every country in the Middle East in the name of escaping political persecution.  These are extremists that were too radical for their own countries but they have protections under the law in European countries and citizenship and many cases.  America is NOT what is wrong in the world, it is what is right in the world.  We are doing the right thing at the right time for all of the civilized world.  It is not over by a long shot.  Does anyone think that the world would be a safer place if Iran had a nuclear bomb?  Call it what you will.  Crusades?  Perhaps.  Islam stretched all the way to France, Austria, Spain before it was halted.  You say what about the "Moderate" Muslims?  Yes there are moderate Muslims just as there are moderate Christians but does this mean they do not believe in the tenants of their religion?  Trust me they support what is happening.  Americans are a tolerate people, especially when it comes to religion.  But what to do when the religion teaches that America is enemy?  I could go on but I guess I best stop here before I give myself a stroke.

[my73charger]

Hey Orange, care to explain how"piss Christ" was a pro Christian piece? I'm all ears........

Yes, please explain??   

[last426]

Why can't people live and let live?  As a Christian, I'm embarrassed by a lot of the actions of other Christians, and I find their "witnessing" techniques to be grating, and harmful to their cause.  I also believe that many Christians lack the biblical knowledge to reasonably discuss their beliefs.  They can be annoying, at worst.  But I don't know of any cases where Christians try to lay guilt trips on entire groups because of something that someone else did.  

Why come in here and say that religion is to blame?  And then why pour salt on the insult with "Truer words have never been spoken"?  What is the motivation behind that?  Is it to make people feel bad?  Is it to "rattle the cages"?  If so, what's the point in doing that?  It'll only cause further division.

I work with atheists and hang out with them all the time.  I share many beliefs in common with them, such as evolution and I support the rights of gay people to get married.  But what really blows my mind is when someone gets all evangelical and starts up on their "Christians cause wars" or "God is as fake as the Easter Bunny" just to try to incite anger in the rest of us.

You are so blinded by your preconceptions that you can't realize that there are alternative views.  I believe that religion is to blame for many of the current and former problems with society.  I don't say that to rattle anyone's cage (in fact, if they were secure in their own belief their cage would remain unrattled) but rather because it is a sincere belief.  There seems to be a history here of defending religion as though it is sacrosanct.  And a history of attacking non-believers as though their belief is somehow based on personal animus.  That is not true so far as I am concerned.  

But what really intrigues me is your last paragraph and the unbelievable assertion that all atheists believe in evolution or in gay people getting married.  And using that as a sort of "some of my best friends are black" argument, as though that somehow makes your attack more reasonable.  I counter religion because I find it a crutch to escape reality and a silly concept.  Heck, I share or shared many concepts with my Christian brothers. For instance, in my teens I hated my parents, as the bible instructs.  And my parents, since I was so stubborn, wanted to stone me, again as the bible requires.  But thankfully we have all lived through those troubled times.  Kim

[lumpy]

I don't think either one of you know what you are talking about!!

[Big Lebowski]

  Would somebody please print me 10 trillion copies of that cartoon and loan me a squadron of B-52 bombers rigged for paper bombardment.

[Dale The Bold]

...in my teens I hated my parents, as the bible instructs.  And my parents, since I was so stubborn, wanted to stone me, again as the bible requires

No, no, no.  Honor thy mother and father.  Honor means, like, not hating.  But I can see how that'd be confusing.

And stoning, well, that is sooo Old Testament.  Remember that bearded guy who stopped people from stoning the prostitute?  Yeah, he said stuff about how no one should even cast the first stone.

Let's just say I agree with your new ideas for the church, and from now on, we'll reform Christianity to put an end to the constant stoning that we do, and we'll start telling people to respect their parents.  Agreed?

But what really intrigues me is your last paragraph and the unbelievable assertion that all atheists believe in evolution or in gay people getting married.  And using that as a sort of "some of my best friends are black" argument, as though that somehow makes your attack more reasonable.

Ironic that you push the "unbelievable assertion" claim even though I never made such a claim, then you proceed to say that Christians are instructed to hate their parents and to stone people in defiance of Christ's teachings.  I simply pointed out that I have daily contact with Atheists with whom there is no "Us vs. Them" attitude (like the kind which was started here), and I was pointing out that the assumption that all Christians oppose gay marriage and evolution is an inaccurate one.  Oddly enough, you are blinded by your preconceptions (really odd ones, too) that you don't realize that there are alternative views.

The difference is that I don't think being an atheist is a bad thing.  Being a person who makes negative blanket assumptions about a group, however, is a bad thing.

I sometimes wonder if the next batch of extremism will likely be borne out of atheism.  All under the belief that they need to rid the world of the "fools" who believe in anything spiritual.  Sound ridiculous?  There are a lot of Atheists who put a lot of time and energy into speaking out against religion.  It really makes me wonder about those Baptist churches that are being burned.  Until recent years, I always felt that Atheists held their own beliefs and never really had much concern about what their neighbors did for religious rituals as long as it didn't infringe on their rights.  But there seems to be this disturbing undertone that says that if you're religious, you're somehow a threat to civilization, and thats a skip and a jump away from believing "the need to be stopped."  Yet, this doesn't mean that atheism itself flawed, I'm just seeing an increase lately in the attitudes of the particularly vocal, practically evangelical, atheists.  Like how a discussion about religion can't be had in a public forum without someone jumping in and blaming the world's problems on religion.  So, once again, just live and let live, for the love of...uh, LIFE.  Don't waste your energy antagonizing the religious by blaming the problems of society on them, it sounds eerily similar to the rumblings we keep hearing about from the Muslims.

The point is if you say "[Group A] is the cause of [bad thing]," it really should mean that everyone in that group is responsible.  Most serial killers are white men, so does that mean that whiteness and/or maleness is the cause of serial killing?  No, it's mental illness (very similar to extremism), and represents the exception, not the rule.

"I think history proves that toenails are the root of all evil, no matter what the beliefs are, all extremist wackos have toenails."

The sentence above is demostrating the flaw in the claim that religion is the cause of extremism.  As I mentioned earlier, people commit arson and plant bombs in the name of animal liberation.  It matters very little what the extremists have latched onto for a cause, because there's always something.  Unleash your rage on the extremist mentality, and let your neighbors pray to whatever they want (or don't want) to.

Live and let live.  Why is this so difficult?  Maybe we should all take a page from Wicca: "Do what you will, but harm no one."

EDIT: And, yes, I'm sure there are Wiccans who don't agree with that statement.

[my73charger]

Why can't people live and let live?  As a Christian, I'm embarrassed by a lot of the actions of other Christians, and I find their "witnessing" techniques to be grating, and harmful to their cause.  I also believe that many Christians lack the biblical knowledge to reasonably discuss their beliefs.  They can be annoying, at worst.  But I don't know of any cases where Christians try to lay guilt trips on entire groups because of something that someone else did. 

Why come in here and say that religion is to blame?  And then why pour salt on the insult with "Truer words have never been spoken"?  What is the motivation behind that?  Is it to make people feel bad?  Is it to "rattle the cages"?  If so, what's the point in doing that?  It'll only cause further division.

I work with atheists and hang out with them all the time.  I share many beliefs in common with them, such as evolution and I support the rights of gay people to get married.  But what really blows my mind is when someone gets all evangelical and starts up on their "Christians cause wars" or "God is as fake as the Easter Bunny" just to try to incite anger in the rest of us.

You are so blinded by your preconceptions that you can't realize that there are alternative views.  I believe that religion is to blame for many of the current and former problems with society.  I don't say that to rattle anyone's cage (in fact, if they were secure in their own belief their cage would remain unrattled) but rather because it is a sincere belief.  There seems to be a history here of defending religion as though it is sacrosanct.  And a history of attacking non-believers as though their belief is somehow based on personal animus.  That is not true so far as I am concerned. 

But what really intrigues me is your last paragraph and the unbelievable assertion that all atheists believe in evolution or in gay people getting married.  And using that as a sort of "some of my best friends are black" argument, as though that somehow makes your attack more reasonable.  I counter religion because I find it a crutch to escape reality and a silly concept.  Heck, I share or shared many concepts with my Christian brothers. For instance, in my teens I hated my parents, as the bible instructs.  And my parents, since I was so stubborn, wanted to stone me, again as the bible requires.  But thankfully we have all lived through those troubled times.  Kim

I am pretty sure the Bible doesn't make those requirements.   Infact here is what Colossians 3:20-21 says:

"Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.  Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged."

[Shakey]

Maybe we should all take a page from Wicca: "Do what you will, but harm no one."

Maybe we should all take some advice from that coloured fella with a symbol for a name:

"tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999"  

[Big Lebowski]

Remember kids, this is World War lll. Don't listen to those who say it isn't. Some people (Cindy Sheehan) want Iran to build a Thermo Nuclear weapon to destroy YOUR American city, I would be opposed to that.

[nh_mopar_fan]

If only those Germans and French were nice to those Muslims, they'd leave them alone.

That's worked so well so far.

[Troy]

I can see this isn't going anywhere in a hurry so it's best to put an end to it before someone gets their feelings hurt...


Troy