to hemi or not to hemi

[Ryan]

I am currently in the process of restoring my 69 charger r/t. Its a 440 4 speed dana car and I do have the matching numbers engine for it. Unfortunately most of the other original parts are long gone as the car was a custom in the 80's and I also think it was a General at some point (the fact that it has the matching engine baffles me). No fender tag, no build sheet ect.... I know a little about the car but not much. Its F8 green, I think a stripe delete car as well but I cannot prove that the holes weren't added later. I have no idea what interior it had, no idea what color the top or stripe (if it had one) would be. I also think the car had a dealer installed vinyl top as it had leaded seams and the holes I found (filled in) did not line up with the factory trim at all.

So far during the resto I have replaced all the bad metal, used some aftermarket and NOS when I could. I have deviated from stock a little bit (UScartool subframe connectors) but I have not committed to anything else yet.

I know under normal circumstances this car should be restored to stock due to it being a matching numbers 4 gear r/t but in the case of this car would I be crazy to change things around a little bit?

I'm thinking a period correct (looking) Hemi , passion 5 speed (when they become available) and possibly a different color than F8. not sure what yet.

So what does everyone think? Am I nuts to deviate from original on what is a pretty rare car?

This is what she looked like in 02' when I purchased it.



This is after an amateur resto done by me when I was 19. 2004-2005.



And now what she looks like. Doing it right.

[Cooter]

Now why would anybody take a perfectly good 440 Out and stuff a Hemi in there? Hmmmm.....I wonder.

[JB400]

Make yourself happy.  If you want a hemi, go get one.  If you want to paint it a different color, go ahead.  You have the perfect candidate of a car to do so.


Do me a favor and put the correct grill in it.   Unless you like the 68 grill, then it's fine.

[Cooter]

Cept for what looks like SLapper bars underneath, I'm diggin' that old skool look of slotts. Kinda "Mad Max"..

[Ryan]

Do me a favor and put the correct grill in it.   Unless you like the 68 grill, then it's fine.

She looks nothing like that anymore

[JB400]

Thank you   I can understand if a person can't find the correct part, but if they're out there, put it in.  I'm glad you did.

[Cooter]

Nice Vettes.

[JB400]

I like the addition of SRT seats.  Hope you plan on keeping those

[Fred]

Make yourself happy.  If you want a hemi, go get one.  If you want to paint it a different color, go ahead.  You have the perfect candidate of a car to do so.

Absolutely agree..........go ahead and make yourself happy.  

[AKcharger]

Hemi's are stupid!

[Fred]

Hemi's are stupid!

Not to me they're not.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Besides the inflated ego, the gain you get in HP for a stock street hemi isn't worth the $$$ you'll have to shell out. But, if you do go the Hemi route, go for a 470 stroker. But, be forewarned that if you purchase a new crate engine from MP, you should tear it down & have it thoroughly checked out.

[1970Moparmann]

But, be forewarned that if you purchase a new crate engine from MP, you should tear it down & have it thoroughly checked out.

I never heard that before - why?

[Ghoste]

Because they have a notorious reputation for sending junk.

[charger_fan_4ever]

Do as you please man. If you ever sell it you would get ripped apart for no tag or b/s anyway even if it was back original color ect. Hemi's have the wow factor but bigg $$$ for what they offer over a warmed over 440.

My 70 r/t has the tag original motor and b/s gone. Was B5 with white inside/top and i just can't do that color. I won't be going back original color and will have black interior/top.

[Daytona R/T SE]

Stuff a Hemi in it.


Then sell me the aluminum slot wheels that were on it.

[Fred]

Because they have a notorious reputation for sending junk.

    I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole.

[triple_green]

After just selling my hemi car (clone with original 69 426 hemi). I would keep the 440 and build it up a little. The 440 has gobs of torque. From my experience they are much easier to tune and maintain than the hemi and the parts are way cheaper. The only reason I would get another hemi is for the "wow" factor. The 440 is way easier and cheaper to own and work on.

Mark

[Ghoste]

And for the record, in spite of reports about MP Crate Hemi quality, there are plenty of other crate Hemi engine builders who can satsify.

[Patronus]

hemmmi, hemmmi, hemmmi..

[Lennard]

So what does everyone think? Am I nuts to deviate from original on what is a pretty rare car?

Your car, your money, your decision. Built it the way YOU want it, not the way other people would like to see you built it.

[Fred]

So what does everyone think? Am I nuts to deviate from original on what is a pretty rare car?

Your car, your money, your decision. Built it the way YOU want it, not the way other people would like to see you built it.

In the end...............that's the only way you're truly going to be happy. 

[Fred]

hemmmi, hemmmi, hemmmi..

Gesundheit!   

[Ryan]

Nice Vettes.

Thanks, they are fun. One is mine, one is a friends. Swapping heads for him.

I like the addition of SRT seats.  Hope you plan on keeping those

I like them alot, but I dont think I'll put them back in. I like the interior looking stock.... We'll see.

Besides the inflated ego, the gain you get in HP for a stock street hemi isn't worth the $$$ you'll have to shell out. But, if you do go the Hemi route, go for a 470 stroker. But, be forewarned that if you purchase a new crate engine from MP, you should tear it down & have it thoroughly checked out.

If I do it I will building it from the ground up. I have heard a lot of bad things about the MP crate motors.
I'd probably go 500+ cubic inches.

Stuff a Hemi in it.


Then sell me the aluminum slot wheels that were on it.

Sorry those are long gone. Sold them to someone with a 70 Charger.

[472 R/T SE]

My 2nd gen MP Hemi's been just fine, (knock on wood).

Although...if I were to do it again I'll go through ForHemisOnly.

[AKcharger]

Hemi's are stupid!

Not to me they're not.

Well if I had one I wouldn't think that either, but since I can't afford one I rationalize that their stupid so I feel better 

[Fred]

Hemi's are stupid!

Not to me they're not.

Well if I had one I wouldn't think that either, but since I can't afford one I rationalize that their stupid so I feel better 

Now that makes sense.
And you're right about them costing. I had mine custom built and it cost me 2 arms and a leg! 

[RCKSTR]

HEMI!

[Patronus]

Ryan your inbox is full..

[Ghoste]

Fred, did you have it built in Australia or shipped over from a US builder?

[Ryan]

Ryan your inbox is full..

Try again sir.

[Fred]

Fred, did you have it built in Australia or shipped over from a US builder?

I had it built over here (Melbourne) Ghoste. 

[472 R/T SE]

Hemi's are stupid!

Not to me they're not.

Well if I had one I wouldn't think that either, but since I can't afford one I rationalize that their stupid so I feel better 

Now that makes sense.
And you're right about them costing. I had mine custom built and it cost me 2 arms and a leg! 

And I thought it was a bitch to drive?

[Fred]

Hemi's are stupid!

Not to me they're not.

Well if I had one I wouldn't think that either, but since I can't afford one I rationalize that their stupid so I feel better 

Now that makes sense.
And you're right about them costing. I had mine custom built and it cost me 2 arms and a leg! 

And I thought it was a bitch to drive?

   

[1974dodgecharger]

you have some nice cars in the background there.... 

[bullit68]

hemis are awesome!yes they are expensive to build/buy,but in the long run are a better investment.if you built two cars,one hemi,one 440 and drove them regularly for ten years and then pulled the motors to sell.which one would get you WAY more money?hint,its NOT the 440.you would get a significant portion of your money back which might make the hemi a cheaper build in the end.

[bull]

After just selling my hemi car (clone with original 69 426 hemi). I would keep the 440 and build it up a little. The 440 has gobs of torque. From my experience they are much easier to tune and maintain than the hemi and the parts are way cheaper. The only reason I would get another hemi is for the "wow" factor. The 440 is way easier and cheaper to own and work on.

Mark

What Mark said. Plus, assuming you have an ethical obligation to keeping the original numbers engine you'll be storing a 440 for a long, long time.

[F8-4life]

put hemi emblems on the doors of your 440-or even 318. reverse sleeper!

[six-tee-nine]

Been asking myself the same question.

Hemis are nice but ridiculously expensive...... so unless if find 15 grand in my mailbox i dont think it is going to happen.
However if money is no issue......why not make yourself happy

[Ryan]

Folks I have a made a decision.  These just came in today and are the first part of the build.

[charge69]

Those look like headers for a HEMI but, what do I know?

[cudaken]

While I have never owned a Hemi Charger, I have worked on them. Boy a 4 speed and a Hemi will still give me wood at my age! 

So which Hemi did you buy?

I need a better job! 

Cuda Ken

[Ghoste]

Good choice.

[Ryan]

Those look like headers for a HEMI but, what do I know?

Yes sir. TTi 2 1/4"  got them for a great deal from Moparts.

While I have never owned a Hemi Charger, I have worked on them. Boy a 4 speed and a Hemi will still give me wood at my age!  

So which Hemi did you buy?

I need a better job!  

Cuda Ken

I have not purchased one yet, I am collecting the parts to build it.  It is going to be a 572 motor. Probably an aluminum world block with ported stage V heads, stage V rockers, hydraulic roller and a FAST efi set up.

Good choice.

Thanks!

[charge69]

Sounds like an awesome setup!  Keep us posted on your progress.

[69wannabe]

That's gonna be a monster dude!!! The 572 will probably be pushing 650 to 750 horses or more at the flywheel. I would love to have a 472 myself!! I know that the crate 472 is showing 525hp but i'm sure the 472 is capable of much more if built and still plenty streetable. What's your estimated hp with your 472 Fred?

[1974dodgecharger]

That's gonna be a monster dude!!! The 572 will probably be pushing 650 to 750 horses or more at the flywheel. I would love to have a 472 myself!! I know that the crate 472 is showing 525hp but i'm sure the 472 is capable of much more if built and still plenty streetable. What's your estimated hp with your 472 Fred?

sounds about right I swore I saw a 572 hemi on the dyno the other day and he pushed 600HP.  Of course my buddy who acts like he knows it all (he still believes what the box saids for add ons for HP is the true number so he adds those up to get his number) he called it 'weak' for bing a 572 engine size.  Thats another story......

[charge69]

It should be a great motor and 650hp should also be easily obtainable.  My little 426 bored .0030 (about 432 cu. in. now) over made 588hp @ 6500 rpm on the dyno and it is a very streetable engine!

[1974dodgecharger]

It should be a great motor and 650hp should also be easily obtainable.  My little 426 bored .0030 (about 432 cu. in. now) over made 588hp @ 6500 rpm on the dyno and it is a very streetable engine!

HOLY FCK!!!  I seriously want a HEMI crate engine....

[cudaken]

sounds about right I swore I saw a 572 hemi on the dyno the other day and he pushed 600HP.  Of course my buddy who acts like he knows it all (he still believes what the box saids for add ons for HP is the true number so he adds those up to get his number) he called it 'weak' for bing a 572 engine size.  Thats another story...... icon_smile_big

You need smarter friends! 

[Ghoste]

Don't we all?   

[six-tee-nine]

Your right sir... if you can fund it go HEMI.....

Consider talking to John Arruza for a pair of stage V heads. You read alot about these heads leaving some power on the table right out of the box. He checks them out and reassembles them before use. Check out his webpages.



Btw I loved your write up about your bodywork. Saved me some headache while messin' with the valence end caps to get them to meet the quarter patches properly...

[tan top]

Folks I have a made a decision.  These just came in today and are the first part of the build.

   

[Ghoste]

How big are those collectors?

[472 R/T SE]

Bob (moparsr2fast) hooked me up with these #'s.  He says he talked to someone on the phone on a Mopar hotline.

These are the Mopar Performance crate hemis' & the part #'s of the good/bad ones if you decide to purchase an older crate motor.




"P5249667AC
P5249666AC.....  stay away from this batch. Both , the block, and assemblage  are questionable at best. Identifiable by lack of freeze plugs on the front of the heads I believe.

P524966AE....  Good parts, generally good assembly work.

  I do not have part/batch # s after this, but it is my understanding that if it was newer, and came from Mopar, the assembly was the only issue. Mostly, just stay away from the last number ( AC  )"

[Ryan]

How big are those collectors?

I was told that they were 2 1/4 primary with 3 1/2" collector but upon inspection they are 2 1/4 primary and 4" collector. Hopefully not an issue but if it is worst case I'll need to buy a new set, but I'm sure someone could use these and would have no issue getting my money back out of them.

[Ghoste]

Enough cubes, cam and gear to move air and you'll need big tubes. 

[Ryan]

Another piece of the puzzle came today

[kokxville]

 

[Ghoste]

Yeah, what he said. 

[472 R/T SE]

What?  no popcorn?

[tan top]