Muscle Motors or Indy Cylinder

[charlie45]

Which one has a better reputation in your opinion and based on your experiences?

Both seem to be in business for quite a while...

[Ghoste]

Good reputation with both.  Indy can be a little more "impatient" with tech questions but they are also the one that is likely a little more leading edge in stuff.

[Charger-Bodie]

Muscle Motors.

[charlie45]

Thanks for the first responses. Here are the engines that I'm contemplating between:

Muscle Motors - "Street Killer Krate"
I would go with pretty much all the extras/options listed on the bottom of the link (see following)
http://musclemotorsracing.com/engines/street-killer-krate.html

Indy Cylinder - 500" RB Street Wedge (630HP)
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=97379.0;num_replies=2

It appears that the Indy is probably the better engine given that it is a new WP aluminum 440 block. But lets keep in mind, I don't intend to take the car to the track really, and I will use mainly for weekend joy rides and want a lot of low-end grunt. The Muscle Motors Street Killer is just a much better price, and it seems like that engine is just an absolute torque monster...

What do you guys think?

[68X426]

Indy can be a little more "impatient" with tech questions

Ghoste is being very kind. They just don't answer any questions unless you drop serious money with them. And a crate motor does not count as serious.

My experience: you'll get less than zero assistance or service from INDY. Everybody in the building gets a swift kick in the balls first thing in the morning. Then they take it out on the paying customer the rest of the day.

Worst of all, besides horrible attitudes, they will not back up their product. They'll acknowledge that they made mistakes, they'll admit to defects, but they will not back up the product. You've been warned.

Otherwise, they do likely make the best designs in the business. My INDY heads and oil system are bombproof. Many on the forum would recommend you deal with a reseller/authorized INDY dealer if you go with their products.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Muscle Motors...           Indy is a little testy - especially when you call them with a build quality issue. 

[Ghoste]

I actually make it a point to try and liberate one of Indy's catalogs whenever I see them set up at a swap meet because I just know it bugs them to give out catalogs.

[Cooter]

LOVE Indy products...They work most of the time. However, if you are one of the unlucky ones where you have a problem, just don't try to get anything done through Indy.


My vote? Muscle Motors, they are still fairly hungry and take somewhat good care of those who don't have to spend their $25K with them.

[XH29N0G]

Have had good, rapid, and positive responses from Muscle motors recently.  Engine still not in car, but it is a project that is underway.  If for some reason there is a problem, then I will pick up there, but anticipate it will be dealt with reasonably.  Before, during, and after the buil, both Eric and Mike responded promptly to my questions and requests and clarified anything that came up.  I am not a stickler for details and let them do what they thought best with the build.  They completed the work in the timeline they originally gave and are well-run from customer relations standpoint in my opinion.

[charlie45]

Wow! So Indy is that bad in terms of customer service!? Well, they're only doing themselves a disservice in the long-run...

But it seems like they really know what they're doing when it comes to their products and building their engines???

The service issue aside, which engine would you guys go with (see links above)? I just like the fact that their 500 Street Wedge is a brand new MP mega block, which I assume can have a big impact on the durability/reliability of the engine? Of course it costs more, but the difference isn't all that huge when you add up all of the options on the MM Street Killer Krate. Chances that something could wrong with the motor are much higher on the MM package (given that they're using up to 40 year old refurbished block), is that a correct way to interpret it?

Plus Indy uses their own heads, manifold, Eagle crank, Wiseco piston, etc. On the MM you've got stealth heads, RPM Intake, and private label crank/rods/pistons.

What do you guys think?

[cdr]

Wow! So Indy is that bad in terms of customer service!? Well, they're only doing themselves a disservice in the long-run...

But it seems like they really know what they're doing when it comes to their products and building their engines???

The service issue aside, which engine would you guys go with (see links above)? I just like the fact that their 500 Street Wedge is a brand new MP mega block, which I assume can have a big impact on the durability/reliability of the engine? Of course it costs more, but the difference isn't all that huge when you add up all of the options on the MM Street Killer Krate. Chances that something could wrong with the motor are much higher on the MM package (given that they're using up to 40 year old refurbished block), is that a correct way to interpret it?

Plus Indy uses their own heads, manifold, Eagle crank, Wiseco piston, etc. On the MM you've got stealth heads, RPM Intake, and private label crank/rods/pistons.

What do you guys think?

MM can do a new block also!

[Scaregrabber]

There are regular threads on Moparts regarding junk work from Indy. I would not spend any money there or on their products for that matter. When something goes wrong it is never their fault and you are stupid.
There's a lot of great Mopar vendors, better to spend money where someone appreciates you doing so.

Sheldon

[heyoldguy]

We could build you something like this,

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,77977.0.html

for about $13,500.

That is carburetor to oil pan and dyno tested.

[Challenger340]

We could build you something like this,

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,77977.0.html

for about $13,500.

That is carburetor to oil pan and dyno tested.

IMO,
The above Engine is extremely good value for Money

On another note;
The many responses on this thread are EXACTLY WHY, I am not a Dealer for INDY any more.
I had to take care of my Customers...no matter what kind of crap I recieved from INDY.....it was just the right thing to do.
Nonetheless,
it was just too expensive for me as a Dealer, to continually have to fix/repair the stuff I received from INDY to look after my Customers, with NO RECOURSE from INDY.
I finally dropped them.
I still use their parts, but now I just get the Customer to order it themselves direct, then if it shows up FAWKED, at least I get paid to fix it.
Helluva way to run a business !

[charlie45]

okay, thanks. And thanks Heyoldguy for the offer on the engine. I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Btw, any thoughts on "Best Machine" in Michigan? The seem to have a solid reputation from my initial research... Thx

[Mike DC]

 
If I recall correctly the iron MP megablocks weigh like 310 lbs, which is about 80 lbs more than the stock production blocks.  Something to consider if you care much about the car's handling.   

[charlie45]

You guys will think I'm crazy...

actually thinking it might make most sense to go with a crate hemi 528

Will it cost more? yes, of course. But, if I'm already spending that much money it seems to maybe make sense to spend a few grand more on the Hemi, and the re-sale value of the car will be much more afterwards with a Ray Barton 528 Hemi than with a stroked 440. Plus, the RB 528 are all brand new components...

What do you guys think???

[Charger-Bodie]

If you go hemi, go with a TIM Banning at For Hemis Only. You will not find a better customer service. They also build them with all new components. I got mine from TIM and it is incredible. And, it cost a quite a bit less than th or aruzza.

[heyoldguy]

You guys will think I'm crazy...

actually thinking it might make most sense to go with a crate hemi 528

Will it cost more? yes, of course. But, if I'm already spending that much money it seems to maybe make sense to spend a few grand more on the Hemi, and the re-sale value of the car will be much more afterwards with a Ray Barton 528 Hemi than with a stroked 440. Plus, the RB 528 are all brand new components...

What do you guys think???

I'm a wedge man myself. I always figured I could run with any Hemi using the same or less cubic inches.

However.

We are actually REBUILDING a pump gas Indy 528 Hemi right now. Indy Maxx Aluminum block and Indy 426-1 Legend heads. It was built, without great care, by someone else. The owner took a ride and said, "This doesn't run like I think a 528 Hemi should! Can you fix it?"

We've ported the heads and made some piston, rod, camshaft and other internal changes. Also have it now so it won't lose oil pressure at idle. Should have some dyno results in a few weeks.

So I'm saying, I may end up changing my mind about Wedge vs Hemi.

[Ghoste]

I don't think you're crazy at all.  Yes Hemis are more money and yes, a good wedge will beat them but when it comes to wow factor there is no better engine.

[Lennard]

Hemi's are awesome.
636ci Indy Legend 1116 hp.

[charlie45]

I don't think you're crazy at all.  Yes Hemis are more money and yes, a good wedge will beat them but when it comes to wow factor there is no better engine.

Thats exactly it, the "wow factor" is ultimately what drives the re-sale value...

I'm really thinking of the Ray Barton 528 (650hp version, that is more than I will ever need...) Ray Barton is just legendary when it comes to these engines... FHO seem great to based on the research I've done on here, but he does 572s and that would be around 25k according to his initial estimates (more than RB), and 20 is my absolut limit on this project for an engine...

[firefighter3931]

If you decide to go with the big stroker, hemi or wedge (doesn't matter) be prepared to spend several thousand extra for all the support equipment as well. You will need to upgrade the transmission,torque converter or clutch, cooling system, driveshaft/u-joints, chassis/suspension, rear end (Dana 60), exhaust etc....

It gets expensive, trust me I know ! 
 
Something to think about ; having gone from a 535hp 446 to a 720hp 572 stroker i can say that the car was more fun to drive with the smaller motor (on the street). The 446 was no slouch and it could boil the 30in Drag Radials no problem. I could hammer on it anytime and sure it would fry the tires but after 100 feet i would get some traction. With the 572, anything more than 1/2 throttle and it's like i'm on ice....completely out of control and it won't stop spinning until i let off the throttle.

I guess it depends on what you want to do but for practical purposes anything in the 500hp range is about as much as you would want with the limitations of traction on the street. 


Ron

[charger Downunder]

If you decide to go with the big stroker, hemi or wedge (doesn't matter) be prepared to spend several thousand extra for all the support equipment as well. You will need to upgrade the transmission,torque converter or clutch, cooling system, driveshaft/u-joints, chassis/suspension, rear end (Dana 60), exhaust etc....

It gets expensive, trust me I know !  
 
Something to think about ; having gone from a 535hp 446 to a 720hp 572 stroker i can say that the car was more fun to drive with the smaller motor (on the street). The 446 was no slouch and it could boil the 30in Drag Radials no problem. I could hammer on it anytime and sure it would fry the tires but after 100 feet i would get some traction. With the 572, anything more than 1/2 throttle and it's like i'm on ice....completely out of control and it won't stop spinning until i let off the throttle.

I guess it depends on what you want to do but for practical purposes anything in the 500hp range is about as much as you would want with the limitations of traction on the street.  


Ron

Well said Ron.

[Ghoste]

Good advice Ron and one of the things least considered sometimes and yet most important.