Chrysler workers canned for drinking on the job reinstated

[A34]

Maybe this is one of the reasons my Hemi Ram has so many problems:


Chrysler workers who were fired or suspended two years ago after a MyFoxDetroit investigation found them drinking and goofing off during lunch break are back on the job.

MyFoxDetroit first aired the footage of the Chrysler workers in September 2010. Video showed them in a park during the work day, drinking alcohol from bottles covered in brown paper bags and smoking what appeared to be marijuana.

With the auto giant having recently received a federal taxpayer bailout, and President Obama having visited the plant where the employees worked just months earlier, Chrysler appeared to take a zero-tolerance attitude. The company fired 13 workers, and suspended two.

But MyFoxDetroit reports that following a union-backed arbitration process, the employees were reinstated. This week, they came back to work.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/08/chrysler-workers-canned-for-drinking-on-job-reinstated/?test=latestnews#ixzz2EZg8jt7P

[TheGhost]

Good job, unions!  I love driving cars built buy drunk and/or stoned people!

[Ghoste]

I'm not going to read the story because it'll only piss me off.  I'm guessing though that they also got all of their back pay too?

[68X426]

Reefer Madness - Imported from Detroit - Obama Bailout - Union Made - Reefer Madness.

Just the circle of life. 

[Cooter]

I'm not going to read the story because it'll only piss me off.  I'm guessing though that they also got all of their back pay too?

And folks wonder why Detroit is going downhill. Unions have ruined this country.

[Ghoste]

I did finally read the story and it didn't indicate if they got back pay but there would be an excellent chance they did.  It went to arbitration and the arbitrator ruled in favor of the poor unfairly dealt with employees.  It's just really really sad.

[Cooter]

I've said i before, and I'll say it again.....

Some folks you can tell one time and they listen, Other folks can be standing on the track, hear the whistle blowing, feel the rails shaking, be told to "Get off track, train is coming", and they have to be hit by that train before they understand.....


Dear Detroit, "Train is a comin"...

[bakerhillpins]

I'm not going to read the story because it'll only piss me off.  I'm guessing though that they also got all of their back pay too?

And folks wonder why Detroit is going downhill. Unions have ruined this country.

on both points!   

[chargerboy69]

The Blaze had this website listed yesterday for their amazing pictures of Detroit.  Very cool to see the now and then.



http://detroiturbex.com/index.html

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/the-breathtaking-then-and-now-photos-of-an-abandoned-detroit-high-school/

[chargerboy69]

Video from earlier today.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_F3oev06i0

[stripedelete]

I'm not condoning the Chrysler workers behavior or agreeing with the final outcome.  But, I don't get the current anti-union outrage in this country.  The unions are toothless compared to 30-40 years ago.   Especially the UAW.

IMO, it's a witch hunt to distract us from noticing a bought-and-paid-for government which IS responsible for demise of our country.

Stop drinking the FOX News Kool-Aid before it's too late.   



   

[bakerhillpins]

Witch hunts aside, the outrage expressed here, at least from my point of view, isn't directed at the concept of a union but rather their rather frequently displayed poor judgment. This is just happens to be a prime example. Protecting this type of behavior does nothing but undermine their position with me. It's ridiculous to think that these individuals were reinstated into their previous position.  Unions were supposed to be about protecting the worker from poor treatment from large corporations, not keeping individuals in positions when they don't display an acceptable work ethic.   And yes, there is plenty of the same garbage going on in the Govt to.

[Mike DC]

 
           


America IS a union.  We call our demands human/citizen rights.  


Foreign outsourcing & illegal immigrants are basically just methods of avoiding the higher-priced "union labor" here.    

[skip68]

Unions are started with good intentions just like H.O.A's but we all know how they end up.   The union needs everybody working, that's how they make money.   

[68X426]

Very clear dividing line here - pride in work versus union mentality. Sober versus stoned.

If their job is that shitty that they have no pride and want to be high, then why fight to get the sucky job back from the Man? The union just enables the continuing slide of America to irrelevance.

That's the outrage.

What's kool-aid got to do with underperforming when on the job?

Lock this one down whenever you want. 

[1974dodgecharger]

unions have had their time and place and now society has taken advantage of being with a union.  They may do more harm than good since we only report the harm union does, but does not report the hoenst folks who do get canned for no reason.

[Ghoste]

All of those things are no doubt true but the simple fact in this case is that these workers were caught on camera doing this and the union fought for two years to get their jobs back.  PERIOD!!  I get angry when I hear people run down the American auto industry and here are these guys providing ammunition for the other point of view.

[Cooter]

All of those things are no doubt true but the simple fact in this case is that these workers were caught on camera doing this and the union fought for two years to get their jobs back.  PERIOD!!  I get angry when I hear people run down the American auto industry and here are these guys providing ammunition for the other point of view.

Kinda hard to vote Pro Union, when after all these years of protection and high paying, "I can't get fired", cushy jobs, and they do something like this and the UNION gets their jobs back....

I have NEVER worked for a union. I have been sh*tcanned for no reason as your employer doesn't have to give one. I have to give at least two weeks notice to keep myself from gettin f*cked by my previous employer for screwing ME OVER?!?!(Once, I worked for a guy who bounced my paycheck 21 times...And like a fool, I stayed with him hoping against hope)....

Yet, these guys can be reinstated...

[stripedelete]

I'm not condoning the Chrysler workers behavior or agreeing with the final outcome.    

I grew up in a county with 2 Ford plants, 1 GM plant and the 2ND largest steel mill in the country.  The Chrysler story is chicken $@!t compared to the stuff that used to go on when the unions had real power.  The Chrysler worker situation is an anomaly compared to the status quo that it very much used to be.

Two of the plants have since closed.  Due in VERY large part to the union.   In fact, the GM plant was slated to become the Original Saturn plant, but, the plans changed due DIRECTLY to union behavior.   The Local at the Ford plant was known to be the worst in the country.  Ford was happy to shut it down.  

The unions have pretty much figured out who's shooting them in the foot.  They are arguably a shell of what they used to be.  Why are they suddenly wrecking the country?  So, what is all the anti-union fervor over the last couple years about?  Where was it two or three decades ago when it had some relevance.

Face it, if Gretchen and the other two stooges are harping on it every day you know there's someone, somewhere, with a financial interest in the outcome, who, by the way, does not give a crap about this country .

[bakerhillpins]

I'm not condoning the Chrysler workers behavior or agreeing with the final outcome.    

I grew up in a county with 2 Ford plants, 1 GM plant and the 2ND largest steel mill in the country.  The Chrysler story is chicken $@!t compared to the stuff that used to go on when the unions had real power.  The Chrysler worker situation is an anomaly compared to the status quo that it very much used to be.

Two of the plants have since closed.  Due in VERY large part to the union.   In fact, the GM plant was slated to become the Original Saturn plant, but, the plans changed due DIRECTLY to union behavior.   The Local at the Ford plant was known to be the worst in the country.  Ford was happy to shut it down.  

The unions have pretty much figured out who's shooting them in the foot.  They are arguably a shell of what they used to be.  Why are they suddenly wrecking the country?  So, what is all the anti-union fervor over the last couple years about?  Where was it two or three decades ago when it had some relevance.

Face it, if Gretchen and the other two stooges are harping on it every day you know there's someone, somewhere, with a financial interest in the outcome, who, by the way, does not give a crap about this country .

I hear you, and it seems that we are saying the same thing. It's been a problem for a long time, maybe the hoopla now because some of the big unions are feeling the pinch and the corps see an opportunity? 

[Ghoste]

Face it, if Gretchen and the other two stooges are harping on it every day you know there's someone, somewhere, with a financial interest in the outcome, who, by the way, does not give a crap about this country .

It isn't Fox News that broke the story it was a local Detroit station that is a Fox affiliate.   I don't know if Gretchen has said anything about it or not though.

[A34]

Alot of good points above on both sides of the coin. Another element I don't think has been discussed here is, why as a customer should I suffer? How do I know that I didn't buy a vehicle these guys worked on and hence some of the problems denied by warranty actually are the fault of the manufacturer? That doubt in the mind of a consumer undermines the value of the brand. Chrysler has had a very bad reputation for years. I can't tell you how many people that have told me they wouldn't own one based on perceived poor quality or owned a car that was a "lemon". Especially, the transmission debacle of the late '80's, early 90's.

Personally, I've been messing with Mopars since '82 and my experience with Chrysler corporation and their dealers on the whole has been extremely poor. Why do they deserve my blind loyalty just because they built a cool car in '69 that I like and happen to own? I mentioned at the start of this thread problems with my Ram. I also have a Chrysler Town and Country. Both have had too many problems to be considered a quality vehicle. Even with a vehicle under warranty, it's a pain to be taking it in every month for a problem. Those 2 vehicles have broke my loyalty to Chrysler. My 87 Shelby Charger that was in the shop 2.5 times a month for the 27 months I owned it should have, but it didn't. My 91 Lebaron Convertible that went through 4 transmissions, should have, but didn't.  My 98 Cherokee with transmission and brake problems didn't. Guess I'm a very loyal guy - Mopar or no car. But, finally, I'm over it. My next new car will most likely be another brand as a matter of principle over how I have been treated with the Ram and T&C.

The Union has demonstrated they don't care about the customer by getting these guys their job back.  I'm sure those employees were doing that for years and some probably still are. Those particular employees just got caught this one time. Probably even got back pay. I wonder who didn't get caught and is still doing it? Chrysler Corporation has demonstrated they don't care about customers by not holding the Union accountable for warranty work due to poor workmanship.  The ability to permanently fire drunk/stoned employees not withstanding.  Additionally, they do not stand behind their product to the customer. Standing behind your product is key to building a strong brand. But, I'm stuck with thousands in out of pocket for repairs and time missed from work to take 2 cars to the dealer for repairs due to poor quality. As much as I love the old Mopars, I could care less if Chrysler went out of business.

[skip68]

They just take their work standards to a higher level.       

[Cooter]

I smell bailout again?

[Cooter]

They just take their work standards to a higher level.       

I guess to the actual TOP of thier Beer glasses then?

[RECHRGD]

 As others have said, it was just plain stupid on the UAW's part to fight to get these guys reinstated.  It only harms the public perception of unions.  But they are so set in their ways that I see little chance of change.  I'm a retired electrical contractor that has dealt with the IBEW in many different locals over the years.  I've got hundreds of stories about the antics these guys can and do pull in order to pull a job down.  To be fare, a good amount of the problems come on larger out of town projects and don't necessarily include core employees that are kept over the years.  The real trouble makers are the "I work for the union" guys.  Even though the union has never given them one paycheck.  The extra dollars that have to be included in the "bids" on these projects to cover the anticipated labor issues would boggle your mind.  We all pay for it in the end.

[Ghoste]

I agree.  I worked in a unionized auto assembly plant for a long time and believe it or not, I was a union rep there.  It is a minority who are like that but it is the power of the majority that is enabling them.

[Dino]

I remember that report, those guys were chillin' in the hood, smoking reefers and boozing away and they rehired that scum?  Nice...

Maybe it's revenge now that Michigan voted right to work into law.

[Ghoste]

Those would be the same guys to not pay dues.

[stripedelete]

Face it, if Gretchen and the other two stooges are harping on it every day you know there's someone, somewhere, with a financial interest in the outcome, who, by the way, does not give a crap about this country .

It isn't Fox News that broke the story it was a local Detroit station that is a Fox affiliate.   I don't know if Gretchen has said anything about it or not though.

You're right about who broke it, but , national is all over it too.

My original Fox comment was not about the local station.   It was about the Fox Network pounding view points that are not just biased, but, to frequently, factually inncorrect.   

I was a decade long Fox-Aholic.  One day I knew the facts of a certain issue intimately.   For weeks I listen to them flat out lie.   After that I started my own fact checking.  I can only compare it to the movie where the guy realizes the hot chicks he works with are really nasty aliens.   That was my Helen Keller at the pump moment.           

Since then, I read more, watch all the stations, and form my own opinions.    When I speak to people that a simply regurgitating FOX's spew it makes me worried for our future.  My warning was to those who buy only what FOX is selling.  Not to anyone specific in the thread.   

As for the rest of the comment, so much of the "political swirl" we live in on a day to day basis, distracts us from pointing at our politicians and telling them it's time to just do your job.

[Ghoste]

Same here.  In most cases if there is a topic that catches my attention I try to get the story from a variety of sources and go from there.  There are more than a couple of the major media outlets with a definite agenda.

[PocketThunder]

That was my Helen Keller at the pump moment.       

What does this mean?  "Helen Keller at the pump moment"  I'm just asking because I dont know that one.   

[JB400]

I gave up watching the news all the time.  Too much one sidedness and bashing of whichever pres.  Only good for the weather anymore and for general info.  Stay away from the talk show type news

[Ghoste]

And most of the time they get the weather wrong.


I think the Helen Keller thing is from the movie?  Long long time since I saw it but wasn't there a scene at a water pump where she suddenly communicated or something?

[Budnicks]

As others have said, it was just plain stupid on the UAW's part to fight to get these guys reinstated.  It only harms the public perception of unions.  But they are so set in their ways that I see little chance of change.  I'm a retired electrical contractor that has dealt with the IBEW in many different locals over the years.  I've got hundreds of stories about the antics these guys can and do pull in order to pull a job down.  To be fare, a good amount of the problems come on larger out of town projects and don't necessarily include core employees that are kept over the years.  The real trouble makers are the "I work for the union" guys.  Even though the union has never given them one paycheck.  The extra dollars that have to be included in the "bids" on these projects to cover the anticipated labor issues would boggle your mind.  We all pay for it in the end.

Very well said, I was a member of the Carpenters, Plumbers/Pipe-fitters & IBEW unions at one time or another to try to keep working all the time, I got fed up by the unions politics & started my own company... I ran/owned a Union & non-union construction company, building & maintaining automotive dealerships for a large dealership group mostly out west... I had many instances over 20+ years of BS strong-arming tactics & protesting by several different unions, AFLCIO, IBEW, Carpenters, Laborers, Plumbers/Steamfitters, some times for stuff as simple as, "non-union employees couldn't access the job thru the same gate as the union employees, at the dealership", it made no-sense, my guys could be union or be paid the exact same & spend the benefits money & dues money on what ever they wanted to, or get on my group insurances, instead of who the union chose for them to or the useless dues, going to political stuff, most chose to not join the unions, they got paid the same either way... My personal opinion unions aren't what they use to be, they are too political for their own good now, they are there for themselves & not the workers any longer, they protect guys like all the dumb asses that got caught red handed getting high & drunk during working hrs on their lunch time, both on video tape & audio tape, they deserved to be fired, the UAW having them reinstated is just dumb as hell, I know "I would never hire any of them ever again", they shouldn't be able to ever work in the Automotive Industry ever again, they were endangering all the other people on the assembly line & the people purchasing the Jeeps, that they were working on "while they were drunk & high", also the vehicles that they worked on, "could have been an inferior product or substandard built product", it could have a backlash on Jeep if someone was to get hurt or a class action suit or something because of those Union Drunk & High idiots, it's a PR nightmare for the UAW unions, a bad reputation is far harder to overcome & remembered much longer... that's what it is to me, the UAW & most Unions now are "all getting just a really bad reputation now", unfortunately for the "majority of hard working & the good union employees", are the ones that get drug into this stuff too, by POS UAW Union Scum, like those Union guys who got caught getting drunk & high, that were working at the Jeep assembly line.... The UAW union & Chrysler Management should wise up, have a no-tolerance plan/contract IMHO... get rid of all the people like this, that are killing the industry & Detroit too, keep the good workers... rant over..LOL..

[JB400]

And most of the time they get the weather wrong.


I think the Helen Keller thing is from the movie?  Long long time since I saw it but wasn't there a scene at a water pump where she suddenly communicated or something?

False alarm or not, I want to know when there is a threat of a tornado

[Ghoste]

 

[stripedelete]

That was my Helen Keller at the pump moment.        

What does this mean?  "Helen Keller at the pump moment"  I'm just asking because I don't know that one.  

Being def, dumb, and blind, she didn't have the frame of reference necessary to connect  the manipulation of the teachers hand and the object from her environment.   She finally made the connection while water was being pumped over her hand at the well.   After that, it was Katie-bar-the-door.  I think she ended up with a college degree.

You should look into it - I hear she had a great rack.

[odcics2]

Unions are started with good intentions just like H.O.A's but we all know how they end up.   The union needs everybody working, that's how they make money.   

And everybody working would be good for the country.  Zero unemployment. Think off all the income tax money coming in.  It may off set the rich bosses off shore bank accounts that avoid taxes!   

All my life I have seen folks abuse the system, Union and management BOTH.   

I have seen managers take overseas trips to check out a vendors factory and come back with a nice tan.   Better yet, then hear a story about their wife breaking a leg skiing in Switzerland!      Oddly enough, Fox News didn't mention that...       Abuse is all over.....   

Sorry - I don't have the answer - I'm just sayin'...

[RECHRGD]

Unions are started with good intentions just like H.O.A's but we all know how they end up.   The union needs everybody working, that's how they make money.   

And everybody working would be good for the country.  Zero unemployment. Think off all the income tax money coming in.  It may off set the rich bosses off shore bank accounts that avoid taxes!   

All my life I have seen folks abuse the system, Union and management BOTH.   

I have seen managers take overseas trips to check out a vendors factory and come back with a nice tan.   Better yet, then hear a story about their wife breaking a leg skiing in Switzerland!      Oddly enough, Fox News didn't mention that...       Abuse is all over.....   

Sorry - I don't have the answer - I'm just sayin'...

Well, at least you admit that abuse exists on the union side also.  What most union members don't realize, is that the unions are businesses also and just as focused on making money as any of the evil business owners out there.  Believe me, your union bosses are just as likely to be attending conventions in exotic locations and have offshore accounts as the evil CEO's.  As said before, I've been on both sides of the fence and am very familiar with the mindset that the union bosses instill in the membership.  It has always amazed me how so many of the union membership are taught despise the very people that make their employment possible.  It's the employers that are willing to take the financial and personal risks involved in creating a business that employs the union membership.  The members on the other hand, have and want no risk.  They demand payment for every minute that they are asked to even think about the work at hand.  It's the employers that spend weekends and holidays in the office making sure things are run right and procuring future work (employment) for the members.  So if the employer is lucky or smart enough to profit enough to have a nice life, then good for him.  Isn't that supposed to be the American way?

[AKcharger]

Guys, I really want to jump on this anti-union band wagon as well, I agree with most all the comments but one rule I learned in the Air Force is there'e 2 sides to every story. Now the evidence is pretty darn compelling, but there HAS to be something on the employees side that's defensible or something the company did that's indefensible. There's no way even the most biased arbetrator could have found for the employees based on what we saw on tha video.

Oh, unions have corperate jets too, and their wifes/GFs fly on them for shopping trips just like the evil fat cats

[skip68]

I'd imagine there's some stupid loophole.   Doesn't mean the employees weren't in the wrong, just means they couldn't be punished by firing.   I'm sure they've made changes in employee conduct. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

That's why I drive a Toyota

[odcics2]

Oh, the company guy flying his wife on the company dime was not a top CEO...  Not even a "training wheel"...
Just a simple department manager....    You had about 5 more layers before Lee Iacocca.
And it got worse, or would that be better, on the way up.  Depends on your perspective.

One time a guy asked me the name of the most important man at Chrysler. Well, Lee Iacocca was my response.
He said,  "Hell no, it's Fred Zuckerman!!"  He produced his pay check and sure enough, there was Fred's name on the check!!
Fred was the Treasurer at the time!  

[odcics2]

That's why I drive a Toyota

How's that accel pedal working out for ya??   

[Cooter]

I still drive a Totyota truck with a throttle cable. I don't buy that "throttle stuck" on that Toyota thing. i work on these things andf Chrysler, Ford, and GM all get their throttle "DBW" systems through the same basic company as Toyota does. They fail to the failsafe of No throttle. You might get hit by on coming traffic becasue you couldn't get your car to move over 5 MPG, but sticking @ WOT? never seen it happen since DBW has been out.

Doesn't mean it's impossible, just highly suspect.


Maybe it was a UAW that was drunk when that Toyota was built that supposedly stuck @ WOT?

[stripedelete]

I'd imagine there's some stupid loophole.   Doesn't mean the employees weren't in the wrong, just means they couldn't be punished by firing.   I'm sure they've made changes in employee conduct.  

It's just a WAG, but, I think the loophole probably has something to do with the incident not occurring on Chrysler property and not on the clock.

[RECHRGD]

Speaking of "not on the clock" I once refused to pay an electrician that spent the day throwing up because of his previous nights partying.  I payed him his mandatory show up time of two hours but no more.  He filed a "grievance" against me and low and behold, the arbitration found in my favor.  Unlike mine, this was a high profile case and other pressures were at work.  The decision was based more upon politics than what was just or unjust.  Right or wrong had nothing to do with it........  In the end, the pressure put upon the arbitrator dictated the outcome....

[stripedelete]

The decision was based more upon politics........ 

Isn't keeping them bad "optics" for the party that bailed out the union? Maybe I'm just not Machiavellian enough...... 

Of course they did wait untill after the election.

[Paul G]

I was a union worker for 31 years. United Steel Workers local 1010. For 6 of my last 10 years I was an hourly supervisor, still under the union blanket but a supervisor.

Some of the things we had to do to avoid the union was incredible. It was a real joke, the only way for a union worker to loose your job was to stop coming to work, literally. A poor worker could not be fired, it was impossible. Drinking, drugs, poor attendance, etc. all had corrective action programs that had to be administered before a "troubled" worker could be "discharge". Fighting was the most serious offense a person could be "suspended preliminary to discharge" for. And even fighting only meant it would take longer to get his job back. The company had to jump through so many hoops it was easier to just ignore or hide a problem worker. There was so much documentation that had to be recorded to justify a reprimand it was not worth my time. I had a crew I had to manage.

The unions had a place in our history and still have a purpose today. Unsafe working conditions, unfair work rules and labor practices, abusive managers, etc. all the reasons why unions were implemented in the first place. Workers may in some situations still need protection from these abuses. But, unions have taken there "power" to a whole level never envisioned by the founders. That "power" problem seems to have manifested itself through out the leadership in our country, and more so the world.   

Quote; Teamsters Union leader James Hoffa, speaking at an event before President Obama, said of Tea Party activists  "Let's take these sons of bitches out" . That is the mentality of the Unions today. It is sad.

[RECHRGD]

I was a union worker for 31 years. United Steel Workers local 1010. For 6 of my last 10 years I was an hourly supervisor, still under the union blanket but a supervisor.

Some of the things we had to do to avoid the union was incredible. It was a real joke, the only way for a union worker to loose your job was to stop coming to work, literally. A poor worker could not be fired, it was impossible. Drinking, drugs, poor attendance, etc. all had corrective action programs that had to be administered before a "troubled" worker could be "discharge". Fighting was the most serious offense a person could be "suspended preliminary to discharge" for. And even fighting only meant it would take longer to get his job back. The company had to jump through so many hoops it was easier to just ignore or hide a problem worker. There was so much documentation that had to be recorded to justify a reprimand it was not worth my time. I had a crew I had to manage.

The unions had a place in our history and still have a purpose today. Unsafe working conditions, unfair work rules and labor practices, abusive managers, etc. all the reasons why unions were implemented in the first place. Workers may in some situations still need protection from these abuses. But, unions have taken there "power" to a whole level never envisioned by the founders. That "power" problem seems to have manifested itself through out the leadership in our country, and more so the world.   

Quote; Teamsters Union leader James Hoffa, speaking at an event before President Obama, said of Tea Party activists  "Let's take these sons of bitches out" . That is the mentality of the Unions today. It is sad.

Maybe we should start a thread listing some of the outrageous union employee activities we've witnessed over the years.  List them one at a time and let the pro-union members defend the described actions.  No, probably not a good idea.

[stripedelete]

I was a union worker for 31 years. United Steel Workers local 1010.

Pension?