Fighting Mopar Preservationists - Not Everything is Rare

[Rustymuscle]

I don't know how I'm going to get through this post unscathed, but here goes:

I'm a big believer that only in some very rare cases did "the factory" - be it Chrysler, GM or Ford - get it right. These cars are all the varsity league cars you can imagine, and by all means should examples of these rare and valuable machines should be preserved for prosperity. But I have a really hard time believing that a 318 four-door Valiant needs to be retained in its showroom stock configuration because of its intrinsic value.

At one point, I thought this maniacal level of conservationism was relegated to Corvette owners and Al Gore. But the deeper I travel into the hordes of Mopar lovers the more I realize that you guys are just as crazy as PETA and Green Peace.

This difference of thought has risen to a boil only in the last month. I've got a '69 Charger. It wasn't an R/T, but it was a 383 floor-shifted automatic car. Chock full of heavy, cumbersome amenities, I chose to build a bare-bones street machine out of it. Gone went the A/C, power steering, power brakes, heater, A/C vents (factory block offs now), and center console. I'm building what I call a 30-foot street car; meaning, that at 30 feet you won't notice the sub-frame connectors, the torque boxes, the 6-point cage, the TCI Outlaw shifter, the Cal-Track bars and flat fiberglass hood held down with factory A12 pins.

I know, I know. I'm already a heretic. Don't fret. The car looks pretty stock to the untrained eye. Am I trying to pawn it off as a R/T? Not a chance. But the R/T tags demand respect and the 640HP (est.) under the hood will back it up.

Example 1: At a recent club meeting, I had a 60-something-year-old guy chastise me for selling the Charger's original 383 and "cutting up the car" (although it's not cut up in any way). I explained that it wasn't an R/T and he replied, "It doesn't matter. It's a Mopar." I explained that yes it's a Mopar, not a Rolls Royce Silver Ghost. There's still Chargers being turned into Generals for heaven's sake.

Example 2: I'm selling parts to pay for my stroked 440's top end, all the while asking people if they've got any used aluminum 440 heads (I don't care which brand) or closed chamber iron heads they're willing to part with. Without fail, nearly every Mopar lover I encounter either reels at the idea of a 600-plus-horsepower wedge, or mentally grinds to a halt when I say, "I don't care what year your heads are, all I care about is whether they're any good."

Example 3: I've got a set of ceramic coated 11-inch discs I'm trying to sell. They're regular ol' stock front disc brakes, but the fact that the rotors aren't bare steel throws people for loops. Heck, I had to explain what ceramic coating was to two different guys!

Am I completely crazy? Am I in the minority here? Tell me I'm not alone.

[Dino]

You're not alone. 

I'm not one to seperate the matching numbers engine from a car, but it's your car, and I'm not gonna lose a second's sleep over it.  Besides the Charger, I don't even like mopars all that much anyway.  (I'm gonna get shot for this one)

I did go out of my way, seriously out of my way, to find a Charger that was a base model and that no longer have it's original engine.  I leave the matching numbers stuff for those who care.

It's your car man, do whatcha gotta do.

[cdr]

mine is still in the resto mod  mode,,,,,,you are not alone!  i dont care what others think! i am gonna do my car the way I want......

[Brass]

Not alone by far.  Love the car, Rustymuscle.

[kab69440]

Wait till you start with the cutting and installing things not made or even intended to be mounted on a Charger.

[Alaskan_TA]

I have a 1970 Coronet 440 4-door, white with a green interior, 318 automatic.

Why? Because I like it. Same reason you have your car.

I like a lot of cars, high & low performance but I wanted to secure a 4-door before they are all gone.

[rebby]

Neither of my Chargers are, or will be, anywhere near stock. Build it how you want it and enjoy! No big deal. If you have an ultra-rare 4-speed Hemi Daytona that's another story and I understand the desire to restore that car to stock condition.

[twodko]

It's your car...have fun with it but preserve its heritage as well.  

The only ones deserving any rips are despoilers of survivor NM cars. IMO

[Rustymuscle]

Funny, I'm getting more "It's your car, do what you want" than what I was really aiming at, which is: why are so many more Mopar enthusiasts less likely - if not completely fearful - to modify their cars with non-Mopar products?

[Alaskan_TA]

A lot of Mopar guys are old school.

Tremec?  If it broke on the road I would be lost. I have limped OE transmissions home when needed.

That is just one example, I have nothing against new stuff, I just like to stick with what I know.

[mauve66]

the local club here is ran by a guy who thinks any heavily modified mopar is not worthy of his club, but a v6 prowler can get in anytime they want.
foose said it one time on overhaulin, mopar people are fanatical, they don't like anyone messing with their cars.
seems everone forgot the 70's when if you DIDN'T mess with the car you were a square..........................
i'm still trying to decide if i should carry a gun to protect myself if i ever get mine back on the road..........

[Lennard]

The only modern upgrade my Charger gets is a Gear vendors unit for better gas milage.
The rest of the upgrades are original '69 disc brakes and Vector wheels. If I wanted a digital dash or electric windows or want to take corners at 60 mph I'd buy a new car. I just love the nostalgic of old cars and the old car experience when you drive one.

[TheGhost]

I would have kept the original engine stored somewhere, if possible.  Other than that, don't really see anything else I disagree with.

[tan top]

It's your car...have fun with it but preserve its heritage as well.  

The only ones deserving any rips is despoilers of survivor NM cars. IMO

[Cooter]

Careful Rusty, you have run into the ever popular "Mopar Purist". These types can be obnoxious in their quest for all cars to be OEM for future value reasons, yet, when confronted with the option to actually buy said car with original every-freakin-thing, they are the first to tell you it isn't worth what your asking. Yet, are quick to tell you how you somehow screwed up by making the car more desirable to others willing to pay three times what a plain jane 383 Charger would bring OEM Gold restored.

Fret none. The fact that you are doing it your way is all that matters, just don't paint it orange and install decals on it.

[Troy]

You are obviously hanging around the wrong people!

I am nowhere close to being a "Mopar Man". However, I do feel that the rare/desirable cars should remain as stock as practical but have no problem modifying/updating a base model. I had people balk when I said I was going to cut the perfect floor in my non-matching 318 Charger to install a Tremec but those same people were fine with me cutting it to install factory 4-speed. The size difference between those holes is HUGE! I'm not one for overdone mods - which includes lots of blingy chrome and most race modifications (goofy shifters, big tachs, rear tubs, etc.). I like subtle stuff like modern brakes, fuel systems, internal engine and transmission mods that take a bit for someone to notice.

But that's nice because we're all a little different. Not to mention, half of the Mopar "experts" out there don't know squat.

To be honest, I'd rather see a non-stock car on the road with an owner who enjoys it than know about a perfectly restored example sitting in a climate controlled room somewhere. Get the car out and have fun - even if it isn't pretty or exactly as the factory made it!

Troy

[bakerhillpins]

I would have to agree with all of the points made so far. It's just a car after all and if it's an old muscle car that isn't going to the scrap heap then that is good by me.  When I picked up my 69 the guy I bought it from showed me the broadcast sheet to his 69 Hemi 4spd, B5 with no vinyl undergoing resto. Do I like that car. OH GOD YES but not for the Hemi oddly enough. When he asked me about it I was underwhelmed and he asked about that. I told him that while I really did like the car there was too much responsibility and baggage that would accompany it for me. He seemed to understand considering how excited I was about the 69 I just bought. I plan on doing a resto to OEM configuration with the caveat of putting a 6pac under the hood since the original block is probably a fire hydrant by now.

Personally, I enjoy the fact that the cars are OLD. I suspect it's the time of my life where I like to recall the "good ol days" as it were.    All the modern stuff is nice and comfy and fast and nimble but these cars are raw. Which is why I like them so much I suppose.  Was out with the wife this summer and she was being a smart a$$ and said "Hey, wheres the cup holder and clock?" (we were late) I looked at her, smiled and said, this car isn't about cup holders and clocks or even a working radio, it's about this; At which point I pegged the gas pedal. I enjoyed the hell out of that, her, not so much. 

[Dino]

At which point I pegged the gas pedal. I enjoyed the hell out of that, her, not so much. 

That sounds familiar!  My wife will take the charger out and roast the tires but that one time when I did it with her next to me the car went sideways and smoke filled the cabin.  Somehow she didn't care for that.   

[nvrbdn]

more than what you think dont stay strictly stock. of those that dont, we have the "old school" customizers, and the "pro touring" customizers. we all change our cars to make them what we want. just in different directions. and both groups will tell you to have fun with your own personal build.

[Ghoste]

If the things you've done can be undone and the car is saved from the crusher, are you not still a preservationist?  There is a big difference between putting a Tremec in your car Rusty and backhalving the Charger 500 prototype.

[JB400]

With today's aftermarket, there isn't anything that can't be undone to a car.  Unless you own something obscure.  Just have a big enough checkbook.

[Ghoste]

I would temper that thought with the admonition that its only original once.  Yes, you could add made in China sheet metal to anything but is it preserved or just recreated?  (yes, I already know your feelings on that but you know mine as well so little use in another pissing contest)

[JB400]

I would temper that thought with the admonition that its only original once.  Yes, you could add made in China sheet metal to anything but is it preserved or just recreated?  (yes, I already know your feelings on that but you know mine as well so little use in another pissing contest)

Yes, I agree as well that it is only original once, but I find in the future, some slack needs to be given as all metal is succeptable to rust dust and accidents do occur.  How many of the first cars (late 1890's, early 1900's) still have all thier original metal?  Either way, your point is made, mine is too.  No need to go any further.  Unless.....

[tan top]

If the things you've done can be undone and the car is saved from the crusher, are you not still a preservationist?  There is a big difference between putting a Tremec in your car Rusty and backhalving the Charger 500 prototype.

yes agreed ,  just don't chop & channel & or tub it / back half it  etc    ,  

With today's aftermarket, there isn't anything that can't be undone to a car.  Unless you own something obscure.  Just have a big enough checkbook.

yeah thats true S400W  was just going to edit my post & say what you just said ,   all the repop charger stuff now !!  anything can be fixed , put right , or sorted out  
although , if an original car has been butchered , in the first place , its no longer original  , but you can turn it back into a original type charger  , just wont be original  , i know what i'm trying to say , just Sounds like i'm crazy reading what i've just typed
only original once ,

if you want to chop , tub  etc etc a charger challenger etc , don't use a low milage unrestored  matching numbers survivor , or  nice R/T Xp 383 or a 318 etcetc, there are plenty of other , made up  rotted wrecks on ebay to use  ,  

[wingcar]

My thought is....unless you are willing to cut me a check so that I can build MY car the way YOU want it......I'll build it the way I want, so that I can enjoy MY car.   
I am presently rebuilding my Daytona Clone (I actually call it a Custom Charger, as it's not a clone in any sense of the word)...it will incorperate all the little custom ideas that I would never even think about doing to a real Daytona or Superbird.  My Charger started out as a 1970 318 SE Charger that had been raced by a past owner...... 

[Ghoste]

Which is fair and I fully support, BUT...  Lets say you had the Landy 70 Charger that Sites has and you got your hands on the original engine from it but what you really wanted was a Charger Ranchero with a sunroof and glass flip front end with Lambo doors.  Would you do that to the Landy car?
(an extreme example maybe but I guess I'm just trying to explain myself without sounding like Im hating on anybodys car because Im not)

[JB400]

Unfortunately, there would be someone that would

It's our job to make sure that doesn't happen.

[Troy]

If people kept out of other people's business the world would be a better place.

Troy

[Ghoste]

You peacemaker you.

[bill440rt]

Amazing. Even the title of this thread is combative. 

The pendulum swings both ways. I for one am all about "it's your car do as you wish". But then again, as has been pointed out it really depends on the car. And of course, the owner.
Would I go balls out & restore a 4-dr Valiant to that level? Probably not. On the same token, having said that I can FULLY appreciate the time, efforts, and skills it takes to restore any kind of car to that level, correctness & detail. And the owner should be chastised because of that?? Or any restorer for that matter?

Build your car as you wish, but don't judge others if doing what they do makes them happy. It's their car, too.

[greenpigs]

Funny, I'm getting more "It's your car, do what you want" than what I was really aiming at, which is: why are so many more Mopar enthusiasts less likely - if not completely fearful - to modify their cars with non-Mopar products?

Those type lack balls!

Like others have said building outside of the normal ticks some people off, be it tubing a car or making yet another GL clone.

My Charger is being built how I would have ordered it back in 69 & that included removing the power steering & power brakes. The possible change in value(lower) means little as it's my play toy and I have other means for retiring some day. By that I mean I will have to work till I die..

[Ghoste]

Could also argue that doing a four door Valiant to that level is also outside the box as it isn't what most of us would do.  In fact I believe the guy who took it to that level chose it partially for the fact that it was outside of the norm.

[F8-4life]

If people kept out of other people's business the world would be a better place.

Troy

^^^ nuff said

[charger_fan_4ever]

I'm all about functionality. My 70 R/T will be getting a holley double pumper. Sure not correct, but it sure will perform wayyy better than the stocker.

I wouldn't be afraid to pull the original #'s 440 out of a big full size and drop it in something else.

[redmist]

I was keeping the Original 383 for my charger, then i had the block squared and zero decked...  BBBZZZZZZTTTTTTT!!!!!   Numbers on the front GONE!  haha

At that point I said screw it, I am building a 440. Glad i did, I enjoy driving the car and not worrying about stuff. Hell I have held off painting it because I don't want to worry about scratches.

Love driving it!

[aussiemuscle]

You are obviously hanging around the wrong people!

"you won't hear from the silent majority"