E85 ?

[skip68]

So now reading some cars get the same mpg's as regular gas but most don't.  Seems E85 users get around 20% less mpg's.  Is E85 20% less per gallon so you are even?  How many of you guys run it?  Just trying to understand the big payoff. 

[Dino]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is a payoff.  All it's for is so more crap corn can be grown and more filled pockets can overflow.  You get worse mileage and I doubt it's better for the engine.

Again, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

[68X426]

Slightly higher in our area, and I understand that 20% less mpg is standard. Higher price I think is due to situation of only brand new stations selling it, having to pay for brand new pumps, new tanks, new building, and fresh pavement with no oil marks yet.

[resq302]

Doesn't ethanol also burn hotter and faster too?  Nothing like less miles per gallon and pushing our cooling systems to their max for older cars.

[Cooter]

Doesn't ethanol also burn hotter and faster too?  Nothing like less miles per gallon and pushing our cooling systems to their max for older cars.

I was under the impression that Alcohol (Ethanol), burns at a slower rate, therefore on most Alcohol drag cars, many have higher compression, can run more timing, and burns twice as much to make the same power as one part fuel.

I believe THAT is why there's a 20% less Fuel MPG. Alcohol burns Leaner. ALso, no Lubricants in Alcohol.

[Khyron]

actually, your engine will run a lot cooler, Our E85 cars will frost the intake on some days LOL, the 20% less mileage is because just like alcohol, you run more, bigger jets in the carb.

A friend has a 1970 Dodge Challenger Stroked 400, runs 9's on E85.... car moves like a SOB and runs cool. So I wouldn't dismiss it guys, some need to check some facts a little more before bashing it... it runs nice in the race cars. Not something I would do on an everyday drivers classic.

[Tilar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is a payoff.  All it's for is so more crap corn can be grown and more filled pockets can overflow.  You get worse mileage and I doubt it's better for the engine.

Again, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

The only advantage I see it has is it uses a bit less imported oil. In my Buick it works out to roughly 10% less fuel mileage.  Ethanol by nature collects water, and if you buy gasoline in bulk like I do for the farm, you have to use it up within 6 to 8 months or you start to have problems with water in the tank. That may be why people are having problems with these old cars that don't get out for 6 months at a time.

EDIT: Oh and I don't use the E85, I just use the 10% ethanol.

[Steve P.]

Like everything else, no one likes change.. E85 will one day be your favorite. It will take a lot more knowledge and DRAG GUYS testing and tuning and testing some more..

Prices on it will come down with NEED/USE. One thing I do not like about it at this point is the evaporation speed, but then again, go ahead and spill it.. Cleans your shit up nice!!!

Also, as far as CORN goes, that will be a thing of the past as well.. FARMERS like to grow corn. Again, they don't want CHANGE EITHER!! We have much to learn on all of this and we are, (for the big industrial power), retarded on this terribly.. Brazil has been at it for years and they produce more fuel than they burn in processing and even sell power to the grid...

If you start looking any of this up, stay well away from anything put out by BIG OIL...   

[68X426]

.. Brazil has been at it for years and they produce more fuel than they burn in processing and even sell power to the grid...

.. stay well away from anything put out by BIG OIL...

Also stay away from anything put out by BIG CORN ...

Brazil uses sugar cane for the ethanol. Doing so hasn't created the economic and social consequences like America's use of corn as the fuel source.

Ethanol is supposed to be a practical bio-fuel, and it is, when sourced from a sustainable crop. Corn doesn't qualify as an efficient bio-fuel because the crop is not sustainable (it's a primary food source, not a secondary bio-fuel, and the program has delivered negative consequences).

I think that's the problem with "change" in this instance. Hell I'll use bird feathers and buffalo chips as fuel. Change is ok. Corn is not practical.

[Aussie_Charger]

With the motors i have built (Nissan skyline motors) some of them run the sugar based e85,

We up the compression to 9.5:1 - 10:1
the e85 burns colder, great for less detonation

they do have to really up the injector size and cycle

problems they have are the water contamination in the oil from condensation - solved with more oil changes
catch cans fill up with alcohol/water very quickly
the ethanol seeps passed the rings easy and dries out the oil even with tight ring gaps

Ethanol in my opinion is only good for dedicated race cars

[Steve P.]

This is just a part of a wide open subject and I am sure we have only scratched the surface. Many new and old ideas are being tried with E-85 including TURBINES.... How cool would THAT be??

E-85 may not be the answer, but it is a direction  on which to try and improve. NOTHING gets done without study..

As I said, this is only part. Sugar cane is a fast growing renewable source that doesn't waste the ground in which it is grown. Also switch grass is being used.. Switch grass may even be a better source as it grows anywhere and grows fast without any seed or food and needs ZERO pest repellant. Corn certainly does and steals minerals from the ground it is grown in. Huge fields of switch grass can be cut down and completely replenished in just a few weeks. We also have hundreds of thousands of miles of highways and by-ways that are maintained by government contractors.. There is no reason it cannot be grown there and collected and processed into either E-85 or BIO-DIESEL.. I actually think it is better as BIO-DIESEL as it would burn one hell of a lot cleaner than diesel fuel and not put out anywhere near the crap CARBON FUEL does... You may be able to remove the CAT and PEE tanks.. Who knows? Well, probably BRAZIL as they are doing it now!!!!

A few years ago I had read somewhere about a research shop that was trying to build plastic engines to run on E-85..  I wonder how that's going???

The big argument AGAINST bio-diesel is that it takes MORE fuel to make it than it's worth.. Again, according to those in Brazil they say no. They farm it and process it on the same acreage. Then sell the overflow of electrical power to the grid. So if we can grow switch grass and process it into BIO DIESEL and use said BD to run the tractors and trucks and fire the boilers that make the steam that turns the turbines of the generators that process the switch grass into biodiesel and can make more BD than is burned to make it and then what is being burned in the boilers and tractors and trucks is NOT POLLUTING the World, why aren't we doing this already??? (taking a breath). 

[resq302]

Again, not trying to bash Ethanol but just was posting what I found with my car when they started doing the 10% ethanol at the pumps.  Places where I filled up with the 10% ethanol my engine was running hotter than it used to.  I would then try a different station that did not have the 10% ethanol and the engine would run back at its normal range.  I also tried different stations and chains and found the same to be true with different stations.  Ones that sold the 10% ethanol made my car run hotter.  Unfortunately, now all the stations around me are selling the 10% ethanol and there is talk that some are now even selling 15% ethanol blends.

I do not see any change in my daily drivers as they probably have better cooling than what my charger does or anticipated the modern fuel formulas into the computerized systems.  All I know is that my charger ran better before the ethanol content was raised.

[charger_fan_4ever]

You know you are mopar burnt when you tread the thread title and thought it was EB5 lol  

[resq302]

     thats funny.

[Troy]

I don't have a lot of time so here are some basics:
1. The octane rating is high - that's why racers like it. More timing, less detonation, etc. These guys don't care about cost.
2. It's alcohol and therefore eats most of the fuel system in older cars and attracts water. Again, racers tend to drain maintain their fuel system regularly.
3. According to this link, it is 11% cheaper but has 27% less energy than gasoline. Even public school graduates should be able to do that math (although I know some who got confused the other day when a store had 12 packs of soda at 3 for $$11 right next to 24 packs at 2 for $11).
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=fuel&subject=fuelAlt&story=e85

Not related to making a car run...
* It's subsidized by the government. So, even if you find it cheaper than gas it isn't overall. Someone (you) is paying for it. Last I checked the subsidy was about $0.60 per gallon.
* Around here it's made out of corn which impacts the world's food supply. On the other hand, it stimulates the US economy and reduces dependency on oil producing nations.

Troy

[Troy]

I was surfing around and found this:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/23048.shtml

The page is for a 2007 Tahoe 1500 4x4. Mileage listed as 14/19 with avg of 16 on regular gas and 10/14 with avg of 12 on E85. With rounding, that agrees with the 27% less energy figure I posted above.

Troy

[resq302]

Yeh, I think Ill stick to regular gasoline unless there comes a significant drop in price for E85.  On a side note, I was changing out my fuel filter and the auto parts store gave me one for a truck that had E85 (as my current truck does not) and the fuel line diameter was a lot smaller than the gasoline line.

[Cooter]

Might have been for the "flex Fuel" version.

[resq302]

Might have been for the "flex Fuel" version.

Yes, it was.  For some reason, the flex fuel E85 fuel line is smaller than the gasoline line.   

[aussiemuscle]

just trying to understand the big payoff. 

it used to make sense here, when the govt had 20% less tax on it and it came out the same as petrol. but now that it's equal, there's no pay off and actually more expensive. stupid greedy govt.

[Fred]

just trying to understand the big payoff.  

it used to make sense here, when the govt had 20% less tax on it and it came out the same as petrol. but now that it's equal, there's no pay off and actually more expensive. stupid greedy govt.

They were trying hard to encourage us to use it but at the same time it was disappearing from the petrol stations. Coles (shell) is just about the only one that stocks it in our state.
So even if you wanted to use it, it's too hard to find.

[odcics2]

Ok, everyone - do research on how much water it takes to produce corn ethanol in the US.
You will be shocked.....

[skip68]

    So then why in the hell did somebody think this was a good idea?   So far NOTHING about this E85 crap is even worth messing with.  This stuff is definitely not the answer for a future fuel.   

[ChargerD100]

running regular gas in my E85 compatable 2011 I had I got 400 miles to a tank, and with E85 I got 50% at 200 miles to a tank and only saved 6 cents a gallon, in the boise area, but I saw gas prices in Iowa on E85 and thatd be where to go if ya wanna save real money on fuel because I was spending 3.82/gal here this last summer on E85 and saw Iowa was about .85 cents!!!!

[Silver R/T]

Gas is expensive, so let's offset high gas prices with using ethanol in it. Now that there is ethanol in gas most daily drivers gets less mpg and less power. Oh wait, there's shortage of corn to feed cattle, let's raise prices on beef. Yay for bureaucrats, everybody's getting a bonus.

[1974dodgecharger]

Gas is expensive, so let's offset high gas prices with using ethanol in it. Now that there is ethanol in gas most daily drivers gets less mpg and less power. Oh wait, there's shortage of corn to feed cattle, let's raise prices on beef. Yay for bureaucrats, everybody's getting a bonus.

except us....

[Silver R/T]

Gas is expensive, so let's offset high gas prices with using ethanol in it. Now that there is ethanol in gas most daily drivers gets less mpg and less power. Oh wait, there's shortage of corn to feed cattle, let's raise prices on beef. Yay for bureaucrats, everybody's getting a bonus.

except us....

yes, of course. I meant corporates are but not average human being.