Those Muslims don't have much of a sense of humor do they?

[my73charger]

I'm with you CPT Marvel.  There is a big difference in Christianity and Islam.  In Christianity its "love thy neighbor" and in Islam its "Kill the unbeliever" .  Orange Crush indeed you are correct about reaping what you sow.  We did not seek this war, but we will finish it.  It was brought to our shores on Sept 11, 2001.  We are again fighting a World War for the very survival of our way of life.  Europe is in a bind.  They have accepted the radicals from nearly every country in the Middle East in the name of escaping political persecution.  These are extremists that were too radical for their own countries but they have protections under the law in European countries and citizenship and many cases.  America is NOT what is wrong in the world, it is what is right in the world.  We are doing the right thing at the right time for all of the civilized world.  It is not over by a long shot.  Does anyone think that the world would be a safer place if Iran had a nuclear bomb?  Call it what you will.  Crusades?  Perhaps.  Islam stretched all the way to France, Austria, Spain before it was halted.  You say what about the "Moderate" Muslims?  Yes there are moderate Muslims just as there are moderate Christians but does this mean they do not believe in the tenants of their religion?  Trust me they support what is happening.  Americans are a tolerate people, especially when it comes to religion.  But what to do when the religion teaches that America is enemy?  I could go on but I guess I best stop here before I give myself a stroke.

[my73charger]

Hey Orange, care to explain how"piss Christ" was a pro Christian piece? I'm all ears........

Yes, please explain??   

[last426]

Why can't people live and let live?  As a Christian, I'm embarrassed by a lot of the actions of other Christians, and I find their "witnessing" techniques to be grating, and harmful to their cause.  I also believe that many Christians lack the biblical knowledge to reasonably discuss their beliefs.  They can be annoying, at worst.  But I don't know of any cases where Christians try to lay guilt trips on entire groups because of something that someone else did.  

Why come in here and say that religion is to blame?  And then why pour salt on the insult with "Truer words have never been spoken"?  What is the motivation behind that?  Is it to make people feel bad?  Is it to "rattle the cages"?  If so, what's the point in doing that?  It'll only cause further division.

I work with atheists and hang out with them all the time.  I share many beliefs in common with them, such as evolution and I support the rights of gay people to get married.  But what really blows my mind is when someone gets all evangelical and starts up on their "Christians cause wars" or "God is as fake as the Easter Bunny" just to try to incite anger in the rest of us.

You are so blinded by your preconceptions that you can't realize that there are alternative views.  I believe that religion is to blame for many of the current and former problems with society.  I don't say that to rattle anyone's cage (in fact, if they were secure in their own belief their cage would remain unrattled) but rather because it is a sincere belief.  There seems to be a history here of defending religion as though it is sacrosanct.  And a history of attacking non-believers as though their belief is somehow based on personal animus.  That is not true so far as I am concerned.  

But what really intrigues me is your last paragraph and the unbelievable assertion that all atheists believe in evolution or in gay people getting married.  And using that as a sort of "some of my best friends are black" argument, as though that somehow makes your attack more reasonable.  I counter religion because I find it a crutch to escape reality and a silly concept.  Heck, I share or shared many concepts with my Christian brothers. For instance, in my teens I hated my parents, as the bible instructs.  And my parents, since I was so stubborn, wanted to stone me, again as the bible requires.  But thankfully we have all lived through those troubled times.  Kim

[lumpy]

I don't think either one of you know what you are talking about!!

[Big Lebowski]

  Would somebody please print me 10 trillion copies of that cartoon and loan me a squadron of B-52 bombers rigged for paper bombardment.

[Dale The Bold]

...in my teens I hated my parents, as the bible instructs.  And my parents, since I was so stubborn, wanted to stone me, again as the bible requires

No, no, no.  Honor thy mother and father.  Honor means, like, not hating.  But I can see how that'd be confusing.

And stoning, well, that is sooo Old Testament.  Remember that bearded guy who stopped people from stoning the prostitute?  Yeah, he said stuff about how no one should even cast the first stone.

Let's just say I agree with your new ideas for the church, and from now on, we'll reform Christianity to put an end to the constant stoning that we do, and we'll start telling people to respect their parents.  Agreed?

But what really intrigues me is your last paragraph and the unbelievable assertion that all atheists believe in evolution or in gay people getting married.  And using that as a sort of "some of my best friends are black" argument, as though that somehow makes your attack more reasonable.

Ironic that you push the "unbelievable assertion" claim even though I never made such a claim, then you proceed to say that Christians are instructed to hate their parents and to stone people in defiance of Christ's teachings.  I simply pointed out that I have daily contact with Atheists with whom there is no "Us vs. Them" attitude (like the kind which was started here), and I was pointing out that the assumption that all Christians oppose gay marriage and evolution is an inaccurate one.  Oddly enough, you are blinded by your preconceptions (really odd ones, too) that you don't realize that there are alternative views.

The difference is that I don't think being an atheist is a bad thing.  Being a person who makes negative blanket assumptions about a group, however, is a bad thing.

I sometimes wonder if the next batch of extremism will likely be borne out of atheism.  All under the belief that they need to rid the world of the "fools" who believe in anything spiritual.  Sound ridiculous?  There are a lot of Atheists who put a lot of time and energy into speaking out against religion.  It really makes me wonder about those Baptist churches that are being burned.  Until recent years, I always felt that Atheists held their own beliefs and never really had much concern about what their neighbors did for religious rituals as long as it didn't infringe on their rights.  But there seems to be this disturbing undertone that says that if you're religious, you're somehow a threat to civilization, and thats a skip and a jump away from believing "the need to be stopped."  Yet, this doesn't mean that atheism itself flawed, I'm just seeing an increase lately in the attitudes of the particularly vocal, practically evangelical, atheists.  Like how a discussion about religion can't be had in a public forum without someone jumping in and blaming the world's problems on religion.  So, once again, just live and let live, for the love of...uh, LIFE.  Don't waste your energy antagonizing the religious by blaming the problems of society on them, it sounds eerily similar to the rumblings we keep hearing about from the Muslims.

The point is if you say "[Group A] is the cause of [bad thing]," it really should mean that everyone in that group is responsible.  Most serial killers are white men, so does that mean that whiteness and/or maleness is the cause of serial killing?  No, it's mental illness (very similar to extremism), and represents the exception, not the rule.

"I think history proves that toenails are the root of all evil, no matter what the beliefs are, all extremist wackos have toenails."

The sentence above is demostrating the flaw in the claim that religion is the cause of extremism.  As I mentioned earlier, people commit arson and plant bombs in the name of animal liberation.  It matters very little what the extremists have latched onto for a cause, because there's always something.  Unleash your rage on the extremist mentality, and let your neighbors pray to whatever they want (or don't want) to.

Live and let live.  Why is this so difficult?  Maybe we should all take a page from Wicca: "Do what you will, but harm no one."

EDIT: And, yes, I'm sure there are Wiccans who don't agree with that statement.

[my73charger]

Why can't people live and let live?  As a Christian, I'm embarrassed by a lot of the actions of other Christians, and I find their "witnessing" techniques to be grating, and harmful to their cause.  I also believe that many Christians lack the biblical knowledge to reasonably discuss their beliefs.  They can be annoying, at worst.  But I don't know of any cases where Christians try to lay guilt trips on entire groups because of something that someone else did. 

Why come in here and say that religion is to blame?  And then why pour salt on the insult with "Truer words have never been spoken"?  What is the motivation behind that?  Is it to make people feel bad?  Is it to "rattle the cages"?  If so, what's the point in doing that?  It'll only cause further division.

I work with atheists and hang out with them all the time.  I share many beliefs in common with them, such as evolution and I support the rights of gay people to get married.  But what really blows my mind is when someone gets all evangelical and starts up on their "Christians cause wars" or "God is as fake as the Easter Bunny" just to try to incite anger in the rest of us.

You are so blinded by your preconceptions that you can't realize that there are alternative views.  I believe that religion is to blame for many of the current and former problems with society.  I don't say that to rattle anyone's cage (in fact, if they were secure in their own belief their cage would remain unrattled) but rather because it is a sincere belief.  There seems to be a history here of defending religion as though it is sacrosanct.  And a history of attacking non-believers as though their belief is somehow based on personal animus.  That is not true so far as I am concerned. 

But what really intrigues me is your last paragraph and the unbelievable assertion that all atheists believe in evolution or in gay people getting married.  And using that as a sort of "some of my best friends are black" argument, as though that somehow makes your attack more reasonable.  I counter religion because I find it a crutch to escape reality and a silly concept.  Heck, I share or shared many concepts with my Christian brothers. For instance, in my teens I hated my parents, as the bible instructs.  And my parents, since I was so stubborn, wanted to stone me, again as the bible requires.  But thankfully we have all lived through those troubled times.  Kim

I am pretty sure the Bible doesn't make those requirements.   Infact here is what Colossians 3:20-21 says:

"Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.  Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged."

[Shakey]

Maybe we should all take a page from Wicca: "Do what you will, but harm no one."

Maybe we should all take some advice from that coloured fella with a symbol for a name:

"tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999"  

[Big Lebowski]

Remember kids, this is World War lll. Don't listen to those who say it isn't. Some people (Cindy Sheehan) want Iran to build a Thermo Nuclear weapon to destroy YOUR American city, I would be opposed to that.

[nh_mopar_fan]

If only those Germans and French were nice to those Muslims, they'd leave them alone.

That's worked so well so far.

[Troy]

I can see this isn't going anywhere in a hurry so it's best to put an end to it before someone gets their feelings hurt...


Troy