Things to do to make a Charger a better driver

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I've got the stage 3 steering box from firm feel, I thought I made a mistake when I first installed it. Going from the loose stock box to the stage 3 was huge difference. Now after I got used to it I love the way it feels and could not go back.

What are you comparing it to? did you drive a charger with all new stock components and then one with aftermarket parts? a lot of people compare the old worn out steering and suspension to the new stuff and say wow this is great. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just curious.

Let me first say that I am not trying to badtalk the stock setup(I like all builds-stock and modified), it works great but the aftermarket has improved so much on mopars over the last few years and the stuff out there actually does work on helping our cars handle better. I'm not trying to make everyone want a pro touring type build but a few aftermarket parts will improve the drivabilty and comfort of any car.

I will admit I have no comparison on the steering box. My old one was worn out since day one and never have driven a new stock one. But for the rest of the suspension I have compared it. When I bought my car everything was worn out and beat to hell, so I did a full suspension rebuild with all new Moog ball joints and rubber bushings on the stock parts and it made a big improvement. Drove it for a while and just felt that it was a little too loose feeling(especially on the highway) and wanted to improve on it. So then I went with all new Hotchkis parts, edelbrock shocks, frame connectors, bigger sway bars, bigger torsion bars, boxed lower control arms, poly bushings, and a stage 3 steering box and the handling improvement and road feel were WAY better. The grip, body roll, road feel, stability, steering input, and overall control over the car is awesome. The bigger wheels and tires I run help all that but I also ran it with all this a few month back on my old 15" magnums before I sold them and it still felt great. So i've driven worn out stock components, new stock components, and aftermarket ones. And comparing old to new, I like what the aftermarket has to offer.  

[Finn]

Your list sounds like most everything Ive done, haha.

-Edelbrock EFI
-4 wheel power disc brakes
-Frame connectors
-Toque boxes
-Sound deadening
-Firm Feel stage II
-Shockwaves (Airride) at all four.
-4 link suspension
-Tubular A-arms
-Aluminum triple core radiator with dual electric pushers
-New bushings everywhere
-Wheels/tires
-AC with new style compressor

[Back N Black]

I've got the stage 3 steering box from firm feel, I thought I made a mistake when I first installed it. Going from the loose stock box to the stage 3 was huge difference. Now after I got used to it I love the way it feels and could not go back.

What are you comparing it to? did you drive a charger with all new stock components and then one with aftermarket parts? a lot of people compare the old worn out steering and suspension to the new stuff and say wow this is great. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just curious.

Let me first say that I am not trying to badtalk the stock setup(I like all builds-stock and modified), it works great but the aftermarket has improved so much on mopars over the last few years and the stuff out there actually does work on helping our cars handle better. I'm not trying to make everyone want a pro touring type build but a few aftermarket parts will improve the drivabilty and comfort of any car.

I will admit I have no comparison on the steering box. My old one was worn out since day one and never have driven a new stock one. But for the rest of the suspension I have compared it. When I bought my car everything was worn out and beat to hell, so I did a full suspension rebuild with all new Moog ball joints and rubber bushings on the stock parts and it made a big improvement. Drove it for a while and just felt that it was a little too loose feeling(especially on the highway) and wanted to improve on it. So then I went with all new Hotchkis parts, edelbrock shocks, frame connectors, bigger sway bars, bigger torsion bars, boxed lower control arms, poly bushings, and a stage 3 steering box and the handling improvement and road feel were WAY better. The grip, body roll, road feel, stability, steering input, and overall control over the car is awesome. The bigger wheels and tires I run help all that but I also ran it with all this a few month back on my old 15" magnums before I sold them and it still felt great. So i've driven worn out stock components, new stock components, and aftermarket ones. And comparing old to new, I like what the aftermarket has to offer.  

Thanks for the information. it makes my decision easier with regards to upgrades. 

[1974dodgecharger]

I agree, technology today and innovation is drastically improved and those improvements have spilled over to old cars.  I think its great....I mean what we think now is great in 20 years the stuff will be better than it is now.

I've got the stage 3 steering box from firm feel, I thought I made a mistake when I first installed it. Going from the loose stock box to the stage 3 was huge difference. Now after I got used to it I love the way it feels and could not go back.

What are you comparing it to? did you drive a charger with all new stock components and then one with aftermarket parts? a lot of people compare the old worn out steering and suspension to the new stuff and say wow this is great. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just curious.

Let me first say that I am not trying to badtalk the stock setup(I like all builds-stock and modified), it works great but the aftermarket has improved so much on mopars over the last few years and the stuff out there actually does work on helping our cars handle better. I'm not trying to make everyone want a pro touring type build but a few aftermarket parts will improve the drivabilty and comfort of any car.

I will admit I have no comparison on the steering box. My old one was worn out since day one and never have driven a new stock one. But for the rest of the suspension I have compared it. When I bought my car everything was worn out and beat to hell, so I did a full suspension rebuild with all new Moog ball joints and rubber bushings on the stock parts and it made a big improvement. Drove it for a while and just felt that it was a little too loose feeling(especially on the highway) and wanted to improve on it. So then I went with all new Hotchkis parts, edelbrock shocks, frame connectors, bigger sway bars, bigger torsion bars, boxed lower control arms, poly bushings, and a stage 3 steering box and the handling improvement and road feel were WAY better. The grip, body roll, road feel, stability, steering input, and overall control over the car is awesome. The bigger wheels and tires I run help all that but I also ran it with all this a few month back on my old 15" magnums before I sold them and it still felt great. So i've driven worn out stock components, new stock components, and aftermarket ones. And comparing old to new, I like what the aftermarket has to offer.  

[cdr]

well my build so far,stroker bb,EFI-,a518 overdrive,rack & pinion steering,alum 4 row radiator,sanden ac compressor electric cooling fans,rewire charging system,wheels & tires.converted my stock shifter to cable,changed the kick down linkage to cable also. link to my shifter mod http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,90798.msg1028726.html#msg1028726
 more to come as money allows
torque boxes
frame connectors
4 wheel disc
large sway bars

[Homerr]

Great thread, I'm bookmarking it for future reference as I'd like to build a driver.

Some questions -

Do 2nd gens have a remote hood release available? not so enthusiastic about someone popping the hood for a peek, or worse.

What has everyone done about the inside sides of the trunk - so that anything loose doesn't give an outward ding?  Back when I had my '69 I always carried some tools and had some cardboard boxes and the fender work covers wedged all around so nothing would move.  Not elegant, but it worked.

Has anyone done sound deadening in the roof?

[HANDM]

As for the ride, I have all original components (rebuilt of course) and couldn't be happier. After all it is a 43 year old car.

The frying of the ECU/ regulator issue I'll figure out in time.

I put frost king duct wrap on the floors, cowl, doors and roof and it is dead quiet on the inside

[Bob T]

Your list sounds like most everything Ive done, haha.

-Edelbrock EFI
-4 wheel power disc brakes
-Frame connectors
-Toque boxes
-Sound deadening
-Firm Feel stage II
-Shockwaves (Airride) at all four.
-4 link suspension
-Tubular A-arms
-Aluminum triple core radiator with dual electric pushers
-New bushings everywhere
-Wheels/tires
-AC with new style compressor

Thats quite a list Finn, is there a thread running somewhere on here on it , starting to get a bit more interested in EFI setups. Cheers

[Dino]

Homerr, the '70 has a cable release for the hood, I was actually thinking about doing that myself for the very same reason.

Keep this going fellas, real good ideas here.  I'd like to hear more about EFI as well. 

As far as my suspension goes, the bushings are all original as far as I know, ie they're done for.  My steering pump however was rebuild just before I bought the car.  Except for the overassisted power steering it's pretty stable.

[bill440rt]

I only made what some would consider "minor" improvements but the difference has been a drastic improvement.

-Keisler 4-spd auto OD
-Hotchkis sway bars
-Wilwood 6-piston 4-wheel discs w/hydroboost (HUGE improvement!)
- A/C
- aluminum strut rods & tie rod sleeves w/C-body ends
- Stage2 steering box from Steer-n-Gear
- aluminum rad w/dual pullers
- bigger wheels/tires (18" & 19")
- sound deadener
- poly bushings
- KYB gas shocks, might swap these out for Eddy's or Bilsteins in the future
- HID's
- frame connectors
- 100-amp one wire alt w/Painless inline fuse

Sometimes I wish I upgraded the seats to something more modern. The car handles great, the only thing slowing it down is lack of support on the seats. Gotta hold on a bit thru the turns. Another upgrade, perhaps in the future.
Other than a disc brake conversion & poly bushings, my '68 is completely stock. Going from one car to the next is like night & day.

[Dino]

Little update, I just received word from my upholstery guy that he can custom make the seat foam for the low buckets.  He uses a firm type of foam to build the side bolsters while using a softer foam for the center so in effect it looks like a plain stock seat but when you sit in it it collapses the back so you're secure between the bolsters.  He says he's done several of them and they work fine.  It's not recaro secure but it'll keep you in your seat under normal driving conditions.

Bill, what's the story on: aluminum strut rods & tie rod sleeves w/C-body ends ?

[JB400]

Before I post my to do list, would someone tell me what's wrong with these cars to begin with.  My mods are more safety related or more out of curiosity.  Other than that, I drive an old car to be driving an old car.  If I want to drive a car that is quiet, I'd drive the daily driver. Why change a good thing.

[bill440rt]

Dino, the C-body rods are beefier than B-body. Larger diameter means less flex. 
Same with aluminum strut rods, & lighter. I was told they are stronger than the steel rods.
Good to know on the seats!

Stroker, there's nothing necessarily "wrong" with these cars, as far as old cars go most Chargers/B-bodies I've been in have been very quiet at least when compared to E-bodies or other makes. It's the other nimrods on the road to watch out for, & upgrading for safety reasons isn't necessarily a bad thing. All depends on personal tastes and the car you are modifying. Most people wouldn't start modifying an original HEMI car or other rarity. I LOVE driving my '68, too. Still has that old car feel.

[Dino]

Before I post my to do list, would someone tell me what's wrong with these cars to begin with.  My mods are more safety related or more out of curiosity.  Other than that, I drive an old car to be driving an old car.  If I want to drive a car that is quiet, I'd drive the daily driver. Why change a good thing.

There is not a lot wrong with the stock setup although things like old electrical do pose safety issues.  I love driving my old car but some things just need to be updated.  If you think of it, it's nothing all that drastic.  Better suspension, better steering, better tires.  I drive my car a ton and at this rate it's going to fall apart on these Michigan roads unless I beef the sucker up.  The power stuff I'm adding is simply for comfort.  These options were available in '69 and I would have ordered them.  My a/c is being upgraded to a newer system because the original parts are made of unobtainium and I want the a/c to work on r134a instead of r12.
The sole reason why I bought a 318 mutt with the original engine missing was so I could modify it to my taste.  For the occasional cruiser I would say make sure the brakes work properly, that's all you really need to do.

Good to know Bill, thanks for the info!   

[tan top]

  heres what i think !
A means i've  already fitted it
B will fit it some time
C good idea but never going on my charger

A  firmfeel steering box
A  polly bushings , but on  lower control arm pivot use OEM  rubber bushing
A  thicker sway bars & rear bar
A   thicker 1" steel strutrods
A  frame connectors
A  torque boxes
B  modern three point inertia seatbelts
A  lower control arm reinforcement plates
B  5 speed manual or gear vendors ,
B  tubular upper control arms
B  hydroboost with four wheel discs
B  edelbrock or bilsteine shocks
A  mad ampmeter by pass or something along them lines
B  japanese alternator , that charges at low idle speed or OEM style that does same job
B  EFI fuel injection
C  modern seats ,  recaro or similar  trimed to match the rear
B  halogen headlights
B  big aluminum radiator
B  serpentine drive belt / pulley set up
C 16 inch wheels , widest rubber that fits ,
A 1inch plus torsion bars
A heavy duty rear  springs
B  OEM radio  converted with modern guts
A electronic ignition

[Back N Black]

 heres what i think !
A means i've  already fitted it
B will fit it some time
C good idea but never going on my charger

A  firmfeel steering box
A  polly bushings
A  thicker sway bars & rear bar
A   thicker 1" steel strutrods
A  frame connectors
A  torque boxes
B  modern three point inertia seatbelts
A  lower control arm reinforcement plates
B  5 speed manual or gear vendors ,
B  tubular upper control arms
B  hydroboost with four wheel discs
B  edelbrock or bilsteine shocks
A  mad ampmeter by pass or something along them lines
B  japanese alternator , that charges at low idle speed or OEM style that does same job
B  EFI fuel injection
C  modern seats ,  recaro or similar  trimed to match the rear
B  halogen headlights
B  big aluminum radiator
B  serpentine drive belt / pulley set up
C 16 inch wheels , widest rubber that fits ,
A 1inch plus torsion bars
A heavy duty rear  springs
B  OEM radio  converted with modern guts

Love this thread! Tan Top, great list.When i started my restoration i wanted everything stock, but after driving the car i think the upgrades are in order. I want it to STOP and STEER like a modern car.  

P.S. Off the line and hauling ass, no problems!

[Mike DC]

Michigan roads -

Stiffen the chassis as much as possible.  XV Motorsports did the research on this and figured out where the most effective gains are:  Subframe connectors, factory "torque box" rocker panel plates, and a brace between the front subframes (lower rad support area).  All of these things can be done without hacking up the existing unibody, just welding some additional things onto it.

Putting a brace between the firewall/doorjamb area and the front shock towers helps too.  But IMHO it's probably not quite as critical as the other stuff above since you still have the factory T-bar front end.


Poly vs rubber suspension parts . . . this is a big debate of its own and I won't try to start it here.  But I personally think there are a couple of areas that are better left rubber even if you put poly everywhere else:  The LCA bushing in front, and the front spring eyes on the rear leafs.  (And check that LCA mounting area on the K-frame for metal fatigue.  It may need beefing up.)

[tan top]

Michigan roads -

Stiffen the chassis as much as possible.  XV Motorsports did the research on this and figured out where the most effective gains are:  Subframe connectors, factory "torque box" rocker panel plates, and a brace between the front subframes (lower rad support area).  All of these things can be done without hacking up the existing unibody, just welding some additional things onto it.

Putting a brace between the firewall/doorjamb area and the front shock towers helps too.  But IMHO it's probably not quite as critical as the other stuff above since you still have the factory T-bar front end.


Poly vs rubber suspension parts . . . this is a big debate of its own and I won't try to start it here.  But I personally think there are a couple of areas that are better left rubber even if you put poly everywhere else:  The LCA bushing in front, and the front spring eyes on the rear leafs.  (And check that LCA mounting area on the K-frame for metal fatigue.  It may need beefing up.)

yes that true  ,

lower control arm best left  stock OEM rubber bushing , thought  they stopped selling polly for the control arm pivot ,that's why never mentioned it !! remember when i was ordering all the stuff for mine 12 + years ago , there was a big debate  going on , polly not locating the lower control arm , allowing it to move under braking etc,  when i phoned up to order front end kit from PST & said i wanted pollygraphite , they said , we are no longer doing polly only rubber for the lower control arm , then said whats been happening , then read it in a one ot two of the mopar mags at the time ,  will amend list , also for got to put electronic ignition , cause i'm assuming every one got it by now , except  oem gold type restos

[GL0169]

I have been driving my 69 charger for 25 years now as a daily driver -it take a lot of up keep so it will run nice- over the years i have replaced just about ever thing on the car you can replace twice  ( suspension- wires- engine parts)- it take s alot of wear and tear as a daily driver - but the satisfaction and the attention i get is so great - my 69 charger is the only car i have driven for the last 25 years - i don't know what i would do if couldn't  drive it -just drive it and fix it as you go along - use the part you think you will like - i use parts from local part stores or if i need to the internet - i run a 440 built 15 years ago (just broken in about now ) a holley 700 double pumper - all new wiring all around ( the wiring under the dash is a great buy if you have the money) - transmission was just rebuild after running for 23 years - flowmaster 3 inch exhaust - just put new Firehawks 500 on and new suspension parts- i allways run Royal Purple 20-50 oil - and just put new hose for raidiator - here in New Mexico it was past the 100 degrees this summer but my 69 run cool in the 180 to 190 - it take some TLC but it so fun to drive - 

[UH60L]

After buying mine, one of the first things was to put disc brakes on the front, huge difference.  Mine didn't have a rear sway abr, so I put one on.  Those two things plus new shocks made it pretty decent.

Now that it's midway through re-build, I'm thinking about putting dynamat inside as many panels as I can.  I've been told it makes a big difference.

I'm not sure if I should put aftermarket suspension bushings and such on, I've heard some of them make the ride really rough.  Mine isn't being built as a race car, more of a driver/car cruise/show car/any time the sun is shining find an excuse to drive it car.   

Crazy enough, I kind of got used to driving it with no power steering or power brakes.  (though one time I got a little sideways (ok 180 degrees around!) and the steering snapped back and whacked my hand against the window, oops!)

[Finn]

Your list sounds like most everything Ive done, haha.

-Edelbrock EFI
-4 wheel power disc brakes
-Frame connectors
-Toque boxes
-Sound deadening
-Firm Feel stage II
-Shockwaves (Airride) at all four.
-4 link suspension
-Tubular A-arms
-Aluminum triple core radiator with dual electric pushers
-New bushings everywhere
-Wheels/tires
-AC with new style compressor

Thats quite a list Finn, is there a thread running somewhere on here on it , starting to get a bit more interested in EFI setups. Cheers

There's bits and pieces here and there. I need to create a build thread one of these days. Any questions though, feel free to message me.

[Bob T]

Thats quite a list Finn, is there a thread running somewhere on here on it , starting to get a bit more interested in EFI setups. Cheers
[/quote]

There's bits and pieces here and there. I need to create a build thread one of these days. Any questions though, feel free to message me.
[/quote]

Ok Thanks, will do when I get closer to ''the time''