Car won't stay running after new harness installed - Seriously whats wrong !!!

[Canadian1968]

If anyone has been reading my other post, they will see that i have just installed new wiring harness from Evans wiring.  As well I upgraded to the 2 FLD ALt.  and spliced in the wire to the Ballast.

So everything hooked up Turn the key and the car will fire but as soon as I let go of the key, it will die. A little back fire every now and then as I let go of the key.

The car was running great, turn key and fired right up and ran no problems before anything wsa done.  Reason for changing everything was the bulk head had been melted at the fuseable link connection and wiring was hacked up.  Wanted nice new connections.

WHat I have done. -

New Electronic voltage Regulator and new 2 Field ALt.
New Evans wiring harness for 68 B-body with ECU
Moved MP orange box ECU from fender to firewall ( to acommadate new wiring harness )
New Firewall Bulkhead
Added addition wiring to Ammeter for upgraded Alt.

[nascarxx29]

Have you got key on power at +coil terminal and power at both sides of the ballast

[Canadian1968]

I do not have a voltmeter at the moment but this is where I should start then ?

Key in RUN position I should have 12V at coil and both ballast prongs?

[Ghoste]

Sounds like a failed ballast resistor.

[nascarxx29]

At one side of the ballast with key on and other side of ballast while cranking.Should show power during cranking and letting go of key.I doesnt hurt to ground the module either

[b5blue]

You can make a test light out of any 12V light socket and bulb. Ghoste is right a failed (open, no continuity.) resister could do it. In crank position coil gets full 12V to start then in run transfers to through resister for run. Check for power at the resister in run position, going into the light will be bright and the other side will be dim.
Also consider a "tug test" on all new wire connections, I had a new engine harness that had a loose crimp on the blue ignition bulkhead wire to connector. Had I not found it by closely examining every aspect and detail of the new harness I'd been screwed assuming "nothing can be wrong" with new stuff.

[nascarxx29]

It wouldnt hurt to get a wiring diagram from mymopar.com and check the letters and colors of wires againist the repo harnesses .Ive seen mistakes before wires in wrong spot or bad connection

[Canadian1968]

OK so I got a multimeter.

I have 5V at the coil +
I have 5V at one of ballast terminals and 11V at the other

I made sure there was a nice clean ground on the back side of ECU, and tried another ballast I had

I got 7V at the coil+
I Got 7V at one of ballast and 11.6V at the other

still same problem

[nascarxx29]

Have you got another module to try .Orange boxes not to reliable

[Canadian1968]

No I don't have one .... That box has been run for MAYBE 7 hours total.  I find it hard to think it just died all of a sudden?

[nascarxx29]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,22544.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,58252.0.html

[Ghoste]

The boxes have been subject to some pretty spotty quality the last several years.  They were consistent and great until the great outsource began, cheaper isn't always better.

[nascarxx29]

I have orange boxs go out on me .If not box. Its unlikely dist pick up can be going bad.But it can be tested with ohmeter and for cranking light pulse at neg coil terminal

I carry my dual point dist and ballast when Im on long road trips.Ive been through the electronic dist issues roadside

[Canadian1968]

The entire ignition system is brand new  ( Coil, Distrib, ECU) and now wiring The only thing that has changed is I now have an Electronice Voltage regulator and 2 FLD Alt.

I also had the carb and intake manifold pulled while I was doin other work, but this doesn't sounds like a mechanical problem more electrical I belive?

[nascarxx29]

You say it starts and shuts off on key release.Seems electrical Test light the neg coil terminal where black yellow wire attach.Getting a pulse flash on testlight

[Canadian1968]

OK Now I am starting to get a bit angry !! Now it appears I have no spark at all . The car will not fire at all now.

I pulled coil wire off the distributor and had my wife crank the engine to see if I can get a spark from the coil wire... nothing

I still have power to the coil in run position ( 5.V8 or 7V depending what ballast I try  )  So what does this mean my coil is toast?? Or can it still be ECU related.

Getting really peeved!!! Everything is brand new. and the car was running perfectly 2 weeks ago.  The only real thing I have added is the regulator, could this be giving me any of these problems??

[JB400]

If in doubt, try the old one again, or another one.  Electrical gremlins are funny that away.

[nascarxx29]

Ive gotten brand new parts of of box defective.You need the pick up in distributor to signal the ecu to fire the coil.Any light pulses with testlight on neg coil terminal while cranking.If you have a old known part coil old working ecu or borrowed one whatever try it .You go to parts store and cant return electrical parts you made guesses with

[Canadian1968]

well I will have to see if I can can get another one to try.

I dont' have a test light , can I just use the digital meter.  Put one lead on the - terminal, where would I put the other one?

I just got the wife to crank it again and I put the meter across the terminals of the coil.  5V in run , and when cranking I was only getting reading of 9V, should I not be getting 12 or close to it?

[nascarxx29]

When I do the testlight I go clip on end to ground and pointed to neg coil terminal looking for a flicker pulse of light.You might be able to tell by voltage changes. Are your coil connections right blue yellow to + and black yellow to _ ..Do You have got any add ons like after market tachs or anything on the coil

[Canadian1968]

Yes Dark Blue to Positive and yelow/black to negative,  And stock Tic Tac to Negative

As I said brand new wiring harness from Evans wiring , I am hoping everything is right.

What really stump me is why I could get it to fire and now all of a sudden I can't even get that.

And the fact that it was running fine before,  I understand parts can fail but just seem like a pretty big coincidence that it did it as soon as i installed new stuff, just want to make sure it not somethign i have done in the install

[Canadian1968]

PIctures always work better than words !!!

[nascarxx29]

 Wiring looks right .Module Is what I suspect are you sure its well grounded

[Canadian1968]

Well I put a good solid ground directly to the ECU and no difference. 
What a dissapointment if the ECU is the problem, unit ran for approx 8 hours and failed, that is just plain garbage.  So what are my options obviously need to try a new ECU but I am goin goin to purchase another Orange one if that is kind of quality it is going to deliver. I know there is a chrome ECU will that run fine on my stock setup??

[Ghoste]

I`ve had chrome ones fail too.  Before buying a new one, is there a known good one you could swap in to try

[nascarxx29]

Research the ECUs and there reliability.As orange boxs are hit or miss

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,92253.0.html http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6761068&page=0&fpart=3&vc=1

[resq302]

Ive had good luck with the KEM one I picked up at Advance Auto Parts years ago!

[Canadian1968]

STILL NO START ..... getting angry!!!

I Made a brand new ground to the firewall.  I have a brand new ECU and I grounded the ECU directly with the ground wire.

It will still not start. 
In Run position I have 11.5V on one side of ballast, 5.5V on the other , I have power at the coil. New ecu, new regulator, new alternator, new wiring harness, new bulkhead connection.

What gives??? 

[JB400]

I'd try having another pair of eyes look at it.  We're overlooking something.  It's probably something simple.

[Canadian1968]

PROGRESS!!! well kind of!

So I was looking at everything and notice that the bunch of wires that runs pin connector for ECU was wrapped around the rest of the harness I unwrapped it and after making sure everything was plugged in secrure, went and tired it.  I NOW have some sort of ignition!!!!  I am back to square one.... it will fire but seems to die as soon as I let go of the key , it will back fire about 1 of 4 tries.


So I suspected the connector to the ecu had bad connections possibly inside the connector. I had another connector that came with the original conversion kit. I splice that and tired, same thing,  so.............................. since this all started by simply moving the wiring harness I am convinced there must be a bad connection some where in the harness???


I just want to double check on my wiring .... I can't seem to find a diagram wiht the 2 prong ballast ( only finding 4)   But if you look at my picture you will see the colours.  The Brown and Blue - are from igntion and run to Coil  and the Blue/Yellow and Blue - come from ECU and come from ignition, I also have my 2nd FLD wire spliced into this blue wire.  SOUnd right???

[nascarxx29]

Orange box has 5 wires black w yellow -neg side of coil positive side of coil gets blue and yellow.The distributor was a molded plug 2 wires fits one way .And left over green w red doesnt get used.
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/elecignconv.pdf

If you look at at the 68 to 70 engine harness diagram you will see how to go from 1 field to 2 field alt conversion

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_0112_electronic_voltage_regulator_and_alternator/viewall.html

[nascarxx29]

If you got a ohmeter set it for resistance and check both ends of the harness wires one by one .While tugging on it.You might have a intermittant connection

[Canadian1968]

So back at the car today,

I tested for continuity on  all wires for the starting circuit. Everything checks out.
I did notice that I had some spark plug wires mixed up, I had pulled a couple to make it easier to run the wires down around distributor and to the alt.  I must have crossed two, ( probably explain the backfire I got every now and then when it decides to fire. )

I am still stuck , it appears to have no spark again , all my wires check out fine, power to coil , ballast .  I am starting to think it is my coil

I did a diagram of how I have my wires run but I am pretty confident that they are correct.  A faulty VR should not cause a no start problem will it??? And if I am getting my power to all points my ignition switch must be ok

Coil???

[nascarxx29]

Glad to hear the harness was ok .I recalled this post where harness were the issue
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1162235&page=13&fpart=1&vc=1.
Im not sure what the case is with your car. If you remove distributor cap rotor turning? Could it have jumped time which also causes backfiring if you pop comp on #1 does rotor index with cap.If its not mechanical still gotta be electrical coil dist pick up?

Do you have a points distributor you could try to get up and running for a test. And be sure of the firing order which is counter clockwise on big block is right .Then get back on the Electronic ignition gremlins

[b5blue]

  Pull a plug, check for fuel smell, it could be flooded. Check for spark with the plug you removed by grounding it well and cranking. If it fires what color is the spark? (Blue good orange weak.) Check for fuel pressure also, I had a less than 1 year old new Carter pump fail. (The car sat unstarted for 6 months.) Be certain that the ignition module and voltage regulator are well grounded. With all this messing around be sure the battery is fully charged and all connections are 100%.   
 

[nascarxx29]

http://www.moparaction.com/tech/archive/roadside.html

[Canadian1968]

.... tested my coil pick up gettin 300ohms... I belive that is in spec

[Ghoste]

Distributor in phase?

[Canadian1968]

ITS ALIVE !!!!!!!

So i FINALLY got the car started today, I had my #1 plug wire in wrong spot on the distributor, hence everything else was off by one spot as well. 

Got the car to start , but it is far from running great.  One of my problems is, the alt is not charging at all !!!  I will read a couple post see what i can find out

And ther other seems to be fuel related, but I would like to get my charging problems fixed first.

BUT a big thanks to all those that gave suggestions and helped me out !!! Thank you

[JB400]

 

[Carrnutt]

I have learned that it is almost always the simplest of things, we overlook or take for granted that they're correct, that cause us great frustration.      GRATS!!!  on finding the major source of your frustration. 

[nascarxx29]

Troubleshooting with the basics.Thats why I asked
.If you pop comp on #1 does rotor index with cap..firing order clockwise direction.Glad to hear its running

[Canadian1968]

firing order... counter clockwise right !!!

[nascarxx29]

Counter clockwise is correct .I usually see the rotor pointing at the alt mounting tab 18436572