Anyone still think EVs are green?

[bull]

Here's a long, dry read regarding the facts on the "footprint" of EVs which basically concludes what the sensible person already knows. But now you've got some hard facts to give to any hippie friends you might be arguing with.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-9290.2012.00532.x/full

[68X426]

hard facts to give to any hippie friends

Great link Bull, thanks. 

The words "hard facts" and "hippies" are mutually exclusive. Nice try though.

My hippie friends can't put down the pipe long enough to read anything, let alone hard facts.    Fine people, I'm just glad they aren't in charge of anything and usually forget to vote.

[Ghoste]

Sadly, it isn't just hippies.  The western world seems to be full of do gooders and liberal minded folks who are determined to protect you from yourself and make the world a golden garden of politcally correct inoffensive safe green happiness.  And all they need to do it is your money.

[68X426]

Sadly, it isn't just hippies.  The western world seems to be full of do gooders and liberal minded folks who are determined to protect you from yourself and make the world a golden garden of politcally correct inoffensive safe green happiness.  And all they need to do it is your money.

Yeah, that's what I meant to add.    Thanks Ghoste. 

[twodko]

"The words "hard facts" and "hippies" are mutually exclusive. Nice try though.

My hippie friends can't put down the pipe long enough to read anything, let alone hard facts.    Fine people, I'm just glad they aren't in charge of anything and usually forget to vote."

I'm laughing so hard I think I pissed myself. Spot on Dan!

Truth is the technology isn't here.....yet......to make batt recycling "green".  

[hatersaurusrex]

Hippies are all about 'feelings'.   Think of Mr. Van Driessen from Beavis and Butthead.   If you want to argue with them, you need to base your argument on 'hard feelings'.

[TheGhost]

Or hard drugs.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Here's a viable solution............


http://www.naturalnews.com/036183_fuel-efficiency_automobiles_government.html

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

No, and never have

[RallyeMike]

Very dry, but it was an interesting read. Thanks for posting.

I think though, that you all came to your own conclusion, not the article's      I wouldnt exactly calling it damning of EV's all and forever. It certainly points out in logical terms some of the issues that green movement chooses not to hear or see. 

Quote (emphasis added):

Although EVs are an important technological breakthrough with substantial potential environmental benefits, these cannot be harnessed everywhere and in every condition. Our results clearly indicate that it is counterproductive to promote EVs in areas where electricity is primarily produced from lignite, coal, or even heavy oil combustion

As EV technology continues to evolve, it will be interesting to see if it evolves faster that what is happening with fuel hybrid, or other types of vehicles. It's not just the economy that has caused the average age of cars on the road in the US to hit 10+ years..... it's also the technology that is making fuel cars run cleaner and longer.  It'll be a tough climb for EVs if fuel vehicles keep advancing in technology at the same rate. Only time will tell.

[John_Kunkel]

RallyeMike obviously doesn't march with the herd...kudos for that.  

BTW, did you righties notice that the article mentioned global warming potential (GWP)  as though it was an accepted fact?

[TheGhost]

Global warming is a fact.  Global temperatures have been rising.

What is causing the warming, on the other hand, is up for debate.

[JB400]

They've been going up for the last 10,000 years. There shouldn't be an argument.

[bobs66440]

I think natural gas hybrids are the way to go. Best of both worlds IMO. 

[John_Kunkel]

Global warming is a fact.  Global temperatures have been rising.

What is causing the warming, on the other hand, is up for debate.

Yep, but the "global warming potential (GWP)" of various vehicles that the article mentions as a fact doesn't jibe with the right-wing mantra....my point being that the righties all fall in line to defend the content of the article without recognizing the paradox.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

No, back in prehistoric times, global warming was caused by dinosaurs and today it's cows!!!   


http://www.slashgear.com/dinosaur-farts-added-to-prehistoric-global-warming-08226855/

[Ghoste]

Global warming is a fact.  Global temperatures have been rising.

What is causing the warming, on the other hand, is up for debate.

Yep, but the "global warming potential (GWP)" of various vehicles that the article mentions as a fact doesn't jibe with the right-wing mantra....my point being that the righties all fall in line to defend the content of the article without recognizing the paradox.

Which is awful of course.  Thankfully the lefties never ever ever do stuff like that.

[RallyeMike]

Yep, but the "global warming potential (GWP)" of various vehicles that the article mentions as a fact doesn't jibe with the right-wing mantra....my point being that the righties all fall in line to defend the content of the article without recognizing the paradox.

I hate to destroy your vision of joyful paradox, but I think the simple explanation is nobody actually read (or choose to fully comprehended all aspects of) the article. It's too bad, because it's good fuel for someone who is hasn't swallowed either side of the programmed responses to the subject.

[bull]

Very dry, but it was an interesting read. Thanks for posting.

I think though, that you all came to your own conclusion, not the article's      I wouldnt exactly calling it damning of EV's all and forever. It certainly points out in logical terms some of the issues that green movement chooses not to hear or see. 

Yes, I read it and understood what it meant. It wouldn't call it damning all EVs forever either but the current approach is getting us nowhere considering the way in which our electricity is generated, among other things.

[John_Kunkel]

Which is awful of course.  Thankfully the lefties never ever ever do stuff like that.

Au contraire, if and when you find Lefties in such as paradox it's your right (and duty) to point it out.

[Dino]

What about the middle-ies?  Alright, I was bored, nevermind...

[Ghoste]

I was actually referring to subscribing to a mantra but yeah, the other part works too.

[green69rt]

I'm pretty green but you have to know the facts.  There are a lot of "fads" that go around that don't stand the light of day.  A couple....ethanol in gas, diesel cars,  maybe electric cars.  I've looked at them all for our next car because we live in Houston and, although gas is pretty reasonable ($3.50!!, what am I saying) we still want to get something better than 25MPG.  BUT!!!  getting a diesel or a electric car has its own problems.   Without going thru our research, we just decided to stick with a gas engine that gets good milage. 

Just so I can vent, my pet peeve is ethanol in gas.  So now I get about 5% less milage and probably pay a few cents more per gallon plus some of my taxes go to subsidise the ethanol producers.  Then it actually takes about 1.1 gallons of oil to produce 1 gallon of ethanol, how is this good??  We're reducing oil imports??!!

[Ghoste]

No, but you are subsidizing farmers, employing ethanol workers and helping politicians brag to the world about all of the hard work they are doing to save the planet.